Lewis Hamilton
Discussion
Kenny Powers said:
Many will disagree, and that’s fine, but I can’t help feeling we may be starting to see the first hints of Hamilton’s inevitable decline. He’s obviously still a formidable driver, but he can’t stay at the top forever. Sooner or later his fresher rivals are going to start getting the better of him, and I sometimes wonder if that time isn’t as far away as we might like.
Well, they certainly didn’t get the better of him today.Max is coming to the end of his fifth season and I see very little improvement from him over that time. Still too many collisions, too many penalties, still not a thinker behind the wheel.
Max is a crazy quick. And he’s a racer; that’s for sure... always up for a battle.
But he’s yet to contest a championship, week on week; he’s not had to display the level of consistency needed, season long; and not had the pressures of it all.
Everyone knows he’s fast; but there’s more to it than that alone - and we’ve yet to see Max in that light. He’s no longer the young buck and another couple of years of this, he might look to move on and a younger driver might have stolen his thunder by then.
Who knows. Given the car; he may just settle into amazing consistency - and show the racecraft / nous needed; but we’ve yet to see it.
But he’s yet to contest a championship, week on week; he’s not had to display the level of consistency needed, season long; and not had the pressures of it all.
Everyone knows he’s fast; but there’s more to it than that alone - and we’ve yet to see Max in that light. He’s no longer the young buck and another couple of years of this, he might look to move on and a younger driver might have stolen his thunder by then.
Who knows. Given the car; he may just settle into amazing consistency - and show the racecraft / nous needed; but we’ve yet to see it.
heebeegeetee said:
Well, they certainly didn’t get the better of him today.
If anything, I personally think he's getting harder to beat on race day. His Mexico win was one of his best, even in a Merc I'd be surprised if many/any of the current grid could have done that, masterful control of this generation of cars. This race was similar in many ways, turning 5th to 2nd probably won't get the credit it deserves, but he was quick and kind to his tyres. How often is he controlling the pace out front, only to bang out a fastest lap on 20+ lap old tyres on the last lap? He still has pace but more so I think he has an understanding of these current tyres that is second to none. That wins championships.
The Lewis Hamilton of 4+ years ago doesn't convert 4 poles into 10 wins in my opinion.
ukaskew said:
heebeegeetee said:
Well, they certainly didn’t get the better of him today.
If anything, I personally think he's getting harder to beat on race day. His Mexico win was one of his best, even in a Merc I'd be surprised if many/any of the current grid could have done that, masterful control of this generation of cars. This race was similar in many ways, turning 5th to 2nd probably won't get the credit it deserves, but he was quick and kind to his tyres. How often is he controlling the pace out front, only to bang out a fastest lap on 20+ lap old tyres on the last lap? He still has pace but more so I think he has an understanding of these current tyres that is second to none. That wins championships.
The Lewis Hamilton of 4+ years ago doesn't convert 4 poles into 10 wins in my opinion.
I think the other teams are catching up and with Max and Leclerc (hopefully Norris) etc all young and hungry; who knows what the future holds. Hamilton still sounds hungry and is already talking about the new regs etc.
E34-3.2 said:
p1stonhead said:
Lewis getting a seventh seems inevitable now and he will almost certainly beat the most wins ever next season. Think only 7 to go on that?
Not sure about that.Leclerc with a full team behind him might do it especially if Bottas is driving like Japan and today. It will take away many points away from Hamilton. I think that Mercedes wants Lewis to get the record and might have to go number 1and number 2 driver for next year.
Would be awesome to see Lewis do it!
And
Is Hamilton trying to rebrand as an Athlete ?
Yep, I know they have to be fit, i'm not arguing with the point, more an observation that he seems to insert 'Athlete' into most recent interviews
Gary C said:
E34-3.2 said:
p1stonhead said:
Lewis getting a seventh seems inevitable now and he will almost certainly beat the most wins ever next season. Think only 7 to go on that?
Not sure about that.Leclerc with a full team behind him might do it especially if Bottas is driving like Japan and today. It will take away many points away from Hamilton. I think that Mercedes wants Lewis to get the record and might have to go number 1and number 2 driver for next year.
Would be awesome to see Lewis do it!
And
Is Hamilton trying to rebrand as an Athlete ?
Yep, I know they have to be fit, i'm not arguing with the point, more an observation that he seems to insert 'Athlete' into most recent interviews
p1stonhead said:
Well they have to be as fit as any other type of elite athlete so....
Tell that to Eddie Irvine 
But, that wasnt my point, its his current insertion of 'Athlete' into quite a few interviews I have recently seen with him. He seems to be making a point.
No biggy, just an observation, not right or wrong, not Daily Wail style put down. He seems to thing maybe people dont understand how fit they are and he wants to be seen on a par with Olympians maybe ?
Gary C said:
Tell that to Eddie Irvine
But, that wasnt my point, its his current insertion of 'Athlete' into quite a few interviews I have recently seen with him. He seems to be making a point.
No biggy, just an observation, not right or wrong, not Daily Wail style put down. He seems to thing maybe people dont understand how fit they are and he wants to be seen on a par with Olympians maybe ?
I have also noticed this. I think he is intentionally making a point that vegans can be world class athletes. Game Changers But, that wasnt my point, its his current insertion of 'Athlete' into quite a few interviews I have recently seen with him. He seems to be making a point.
No biggy, just an observation, not right or wrong, not Daily Wail style put down. He seems to thing maybe people dont understand how fit they are and he wants to be seen on a par with Olympians maybe ?
Gary C said:
p1stonhead said:
Well they have to be as fit as any other type of elite athlete so....
Tell that to Eddie Irvine But, that wasnt my point, its his current insertion of 'Athlete' into quite a few interviews I have recently seen with him. He seems to be making a point.
No biggy, just an observation, not right or wrong, not Daily Wail style put down. He seems to thing maybe people dont understand how fit they are and he wants to be seen on a par with Olympians maybe ?
An occasional win, an occasional concentration on the sport, particularly in his seasons with Jaguar, but by then it was too late.
Perhaps someone should have told Irvine that it's not all about potential.
There was a bit on Sky some time ago on the regime of the drivers. There was a shot of the gym in one of the driver's flats in Monaco. I don't want to come over as all Daily Mail, but I wondered at the valued of the floor space. There's no doubt the successful drivers are athletes. Given what they have to go through, perhaps Hamilton is a bit miffed at the 'naturally talented' comments.
Bottas said at the beginning of the season that he's been working on his fitness. He still seems a little chubby for an F1 driver to my eyes, but his regime seems to be working.
Gary C said:
Tell that to Eddie Irvine
But, that wasnt my point, its his current insertion of 'Athlete' into quite a few interviews I have recently seen with him. He seems to be making a point.
No biggy, just an observation, not right or wrong, not Daily Wail style put down. He seems to thing maybe people dont understand how fit they are and he wants to be seen on a par with Olympians maybe ?
Driver is a bit narrow, sportsman/woman is getting clunky, especially in sports like F1. So, I think, it could be as simple as the search for a collective..But, that wasnt my point, its his current insertion of 'Athlete' into quite a few interviews I have recently seen with him. He seems to be making a point.
No biggy, just an observation, not right or wrong, not Daily Wail style put down. He seems to thing maybe people dont understand how fit they are and he wants to be seen on a par with Olympians maybe ?
He, and all the other drivers, fit the modern definitions of athlete.
Derek Smith said:
...Given what they have to go through, perhaps Hamilton is a bit miffed at the 'naturally talented' comments....
You might have hit the nail there: making it look that easy takes an awful lot of work...if I was him, it would tick me off if people just put it down to some "natural talent" so ignoring all the effort that goes in.I don't think it is just Lewis who is getting better every year; the team behind him keep pushing the bar higher. Listen to Toto after every race they win - keeps repeating the mantra - "we can get better". Whereas Ferrari keep self imploding and Max has Horner telling him to just keep doing the same and if you fail it is everyone else's fault.
I think Lewis plus Mercedes will be hard to beat in the foreseeable future.
I think Lewis plus Mercedes will be hard to beat in the foreseeable future.
Hamilton is the best driver, in the best team and has the best car out there on race day.
These things do not happen by luck. As a unit this Merc team are something else. Their work ethic is astonishing. Their calmness and openness when mistakes are made and their striving for constant improvement is truly outstanding.
As a unit, they are phenomenal. Every piece is vital. Hamilton doing the driving. Wolff setting the tone. Bono and the rest of the engineers making the most out of what they have.
Amazing to see and there is no doubt they deserve the success that they are having.
These things do not happen by luck. As a unit this Merc team are something else. Their work ethic is astonishing. Their calmness and openness when mistakes are made and their striving for constant improvement is truly outstanding.
As a unit, they are phenomenal. Every piece is vital. Hamilton doing the driving. Wolff setting the tone. Bono and the rest of the engineers making the most out of what they have.
Amazing to see and there is no doubt they deserve the success that they are having.
I don't realistically see anything changing between now and 2021.
Mercedes will sandbag in testing like they always do and then show their considerable advantage when it matters, people will carry on believing Ferrari (and others) have a chance because to accept the reality that they are only in the running if Mercedes balls up is to accept that the 2020 championship is Mercedes' to lose, again.
It doesn't help the sport at all that Ferrari consistently fall over themselves to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, it really is shambolic at this point. That being said they are on the back foot, whereas Mercedes - for all their overtures about being slower, things being difficult, etc - are the ones who go into each race being the ones to beat.
Cue people saying that Ferrari have the faster car, how Hamilton and journeyman Bottas wrung the neck out of the Mercedes to win races they ought never to have had a chance of winning, etc...
Good news for Hamilton fans though, 7th championship & constructors win is odds on already. For casual observers it's pretty boring though (and it was boring when Schumacher and RBR dominated). People tend to forget that during the RBR dominance 2 of Vettel's 4 championship wins went down to the last race.
Ah well, those that just want to see Hamilton win at the expense of any spectacle will continue to relish every "race", and talk up the chances of everyone else to make it seem more valid. There's no doubting his total brilliance and consistency, but Christ how can anyone be satisfied with the competition?
EDIT: I'm not suggesting there is any answer to this. Mercedes can't be expected to restrict themselves, everyone else just has to get better. Doesn't alter the fact that with every race there's pretty much only 3 teams that can win, and only 1 of them goes into every race with it being theirs to lose.
Mercedes will sandbag in testing like they always do and then show their considerable advantage when it matters, people will carry on believing Ferrari (and others) have a chance because to accept the reality that they are only in the running if Mercedes balls up is to accept that the 2020 championship is Mercedes' to lose, again.
It doesn't help the sport at all that Ferrari consistently fall over themselves to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, it really is shambolic at this point. That being said they are on the back foot, whereas Mercedes - for all their overtures about being slower, things being difficult, etc - are the ones who go into each race being the ones to beat.
Cue people saying that Ferrari have the faster car, how Hamilton and journeyman Bottas wrung the neck out of the Mercedes to win races they ought never to have had a chance of winning, etc...
Good news for Hamilton fans though, 7th championship & constructors win is odds on already. For casual observers it's pretty boring though (and it was boring when Schumacher and RBR dominated). People tend to forget that during the RBR dominance 2 of Vettel's 4 championship wins went down to the last race.
Ah well, those that just want to see Hamilton win at the expense of any spectacle will continue to relish every "race", and talk up the chances of everyone else to make it seem more valid. There's no doubting his total brilliance and consistency, but Christ how can anyone be satisfied with the competition?
EDIT: I'm not suggesting there is any answer to this. Mercedes can't be expected to restrict themselves, everyone else just has to get better. Doesn't alter the fact that with every race there's pretty much only 3 teams that can win, and only 1 of them goes into every race with it being theirs to lose.
Edited by Durzel on Monday 4th November 10:34
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