Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?

[Piginapoke]

A44RON said:

Senna: 1991

Schumacher: 1995, would've won it in 1999 if not for the broken leg, could make an argument for 2000 and 2003 too although very close

Hamilton: could make an argument for 2008 and 2018 although very close with Ferrari both years

Also Rosberg 82, Prost 86.

[Piginapoke]

vdn said:

Jeez - clutch at straws much? Bottas demolished Massa. It’s damn near a clean sweep... and Vandoorne?

If you think that beating Bottas proves that Lewis is the GOAT, you need to read a few history books! This is what competition looks like.

[M5-911]

Piginapoke said:

If you think that beating Bottas proves that Lewis is the GOAT, you need to read a few history books! This is what competition looks like.

Great pictures but you forget that on the same start line we have had Hamilton (6), rosberg (1), Button(1),Raikkonen(1), Alonso(2), shumacher(7) and Vettel (4).

Any pictures of it?

[vdn]

Piginapoke said:

vdn said:

Jeez - clutch at straws much? Bottas demolished Massa. It’s damn near a clean sweep... and Vandoorne?

If you think that beating Bottas proves that Lewis is the GOAT, you need to read a few history books! This is what competition looks like.

Where did I say that... show me and I’ll get you a virtual pint.

Hamilton is the GOAT for a myriad of reasons... consistently beating Bottas isn’t one of them.

Just like some people consider MS the GOAT - I’m sure beating contractually tied, inferior drivers, who are not allowed to view MS data isn’t a part of that conclusion.



Also, competition comes in many forms... four world champs and a random Aussie for example:

[A44RON]

^^^^ that's a very poignant pic

Where was Hamilton finishing in the championship during that time 2010-2013?....

Someone said on here the other day that Webber wasn't a particularly strong teammate to Vettel, but Webber beat Hamilton 2010, 2011 & 2013

Alonso beat Hamilton 2010, 2011, 2012 & 2013 in arguably inferior machinery.

Button beat Hamilton 2011 and finished runner-up that year in a very strong season.

Vettel obviously champ 2010-2013

Those were some very very good title fights that era, particularly 2012. Probably the last truly great season we had from an objective point of view.

[A44RON]

vdn said:

Jeez - clutch at straws much? Bottas demolished Massa. It’s damn near a clean sweep... and Vandoorne?

why are you laughing at Vandoorne? He's a good racing driver - ask anyone who works in motorsport and specifically Matt Bishop

[M5-911]

A44RON said:

^^^^ that's a very poignant pic

Where was Hamilton finishing in the championship during that time 2010-2013?....

Someone said on here the other day that Webber wasn't a particularly strong teammate to Vettel, but Webber beat Hamilton 2010, 2011 & 2013

Alonso beat Hamilton 2010, 2011, 2012 & 2013 in arguably inferior machinery.

Button beat Hamilton 2011 and finished runner-up that year in a very strong season.

Vettel obviously champ 2010-2013

Those were some very very good title fights that era, particularly 2012. Probably the last truly great season we had from an objective point of view.

Once again, you are looking at those seasons via a Wikipedia page. Have a look a the full seasons to understand the struggle with tyres, reliability of the cars and race incidents.

Lauda did won against Prost. Looks like a clear cut on your wiki page. The only reason if I remember rightly is because Jacky ixxck stopped the race too early in Monaco as he was a Porsche driver and McLaren had a Porsche engine so they wanted to make sure a porsche engine won.

There are stories behind the numbers.

[M5-911]

A44RON said:

why are you laughing at Vandoorne? He's a good racing driver - ask anyone who works in motorsport and specifically Matt Bishop

Vandoorne never did anything in F1. We are talking f1, not sub categories.

You sound so desperate with your Wikipedia statements.

[A44RON]

M5-911 said:

A44RON said:

^^^^ that's a very poignant pic

Where was Hamilton finishing in the championship during that time 2010-2013?....

Someone said on here the other day that Webber wasn't a particularly strong teammate to Vettel, but Webber beat Hamilton 2010, 2011 & 2013

Alonso beat Hamilton 2010, 2011, 2012 & 2013 in arguably inferior machinery.

Button beat Hamilton 2011 and finished runner-up that year in a very strong season.

Vettel obviously champ 2010-2013

Those were some very very good title fights that era, particularly 2012. Probably the last truly great season we had from an objective point of view.

Once again, you are looking at those seasons via a Wikipedia page. Have a look a the full seasons to understand the struggle with tyres, reliability of the cars and race incidents.

Lauda did won against Prost. Looks like a clear cut on your wiki page. The only reason if I remember rightly is because Jacky ixxck stopped the race too early in Monaco as he was a Porsche driver and McLaren had a Porsche engine so they wanted to make sure a porsche engine won.

There are stories behind the numbers.

Is that the same wiki page where yourself and other Hamilton fans are happy to keep repeating that Hamilton beat Alonso in 2007 (on equal points)... - you know how this goes - but are also happy to argue like the above that "it's not clear cut" etc...

Are there that many stories/excuses for 4 championship seasons in a row, or is it that Hamilton was up against very tough competition among closer-matched teams during 2010-2013 than today....

[M5-911]

A44RON said:

Is that the same wiki page where yourself and other Hamilton fans are happy to keep repeating that Hamilton beat Alonso in 2007 (on equal points)... - you know how this goes - but are also happy to argue like the above that "it's not clear cut" etc...

Nope, that is what you find on the official FIA website.
Great stories behind 2007. Mclaren employed at the time the fastest guy on the grid and current world champion only to realise that the rookie next to him was quicker...
The garage was very divided as McLaren paid top bucks for Alonso and back him up for a long time despite a few people amongst the team thought it was unfair as Hamilton was quicker.

[Bo_apex]

clarki said:

Has anyone ever won the title in not the best car?? Schumacher? Was the ferrari better than the mclaren in 2000?

Only asking 'cos don't know tbh.

Schumacher 2000.

[angrymoby]

A44RON said:

^^^^ that's a very poignant pic

Alonso beat Hamilton 2010, 2011, ... in arguably inferior machinery.

completely ignoring that Ferrari were still employing the 'all eggs in one basket' philosophy, which sacrifices WCC pts for WDC pts

A44RON said:

2012

& Ferrari finished 2nd that year, even with the above philosophy

[A44RON]

angrymoby said:

A44RON said:

^^^^ that's a very poignant pic

Where was Hamilton finishing in the championship during that time 2010-2013?....

Someone said on here the other day that Webber wasn't a particularly strong teammate to Vettel, but Webber beat Hamilton 2010, 2011 & 2013

Alonso beat Hamilton 2010, 2011, 2012 & 2013 in arguably inferior machinery.

Button beat Hamilton 2011 and finished runner-up that year in a very strong season.

Vettel obviously champ 2010-2013

Those were some very very good title fights that era, particularly 2012. Probably the last truly great season we had from an objective point of view.

completely ignoring that Ferrari were still employing the 'all eggs in one basket' philosophy, which sacrifices WCC pts for WDC pts

A44RON said:

2012

& Ferrari finished 2nd that year, even with the above philosophy

- point 1: so why was Button still able to finish runner-up in the 2011 WDC, if Button & Hamilton were taking points off each other?

- point 2: in 2012 Alonso finished on 278 points, while Massa finished on 122 points - when Alonso was finishing 1st/2nd/3rd in races but Massa was finishing 5th/6th/7th in those same races it's hard to justify that Massa was giving him a leg-up all the time... Massa wasn't getting close to Alonso.

McLaren had consistently the second-best car on the grid from 2010-2012 and Mercedes had the second-best car on the grid in 2013, so why didn't Hamilton replicate what Button did in 2011 and finish runner-up in at least one championship from 2010-2013....

[A44RON]

M5-911 said:

A44RON said:

Is that the same wiki page where yourself and other Hamilton fans are happy to keep repeating that Hamilton beat Alonso in 2007 (on equal points)... - you know how this goes - but are also happy to argue like the above that "it's not clear cut" etc...

Nope, that is what you find on the official FIA website.
Great stories behind 2007. Mclaren employed at the time the fastest guy on the grid and current world champion only to realise that the rookie next to him was quicker...
The garage was very divided as McLaren paid top bucks for Alonso and back him up for a long time despite a few people amongst the team thought it was unfair as Hamilton was quicker.

so what's your stories/excuses for 2010-2013?

[vdn]

A44RON said:

why are you laughing at Vandoorne? He's a good racing driver - ask anyone who works in motorsport and specifically Matt Bishop

Quoted for prosperity!

You tried to say Alonso beating Vandoorne is something - but Bottas beating Massa is nothing.

Conclusion: you’re daft / troll / insincere / or all of the above.

[bobbo89]

Piginapoke said:

If you think that beating Bottas proves that Lewis is the GOAT, you need to read a few history books! This is what competition looks like.

I'd love to think they're Prost's actual driving shoes!

[A44RON]

vdn said:

A44RON said:

why are you laughing at Vandoorne? He's a good racing driver - ask anyone who works in motorsport and specifically Matt Bishop

Quoted for prosperity!

You tried to say Alonso beating Vandoorne is something - but Bottas beating Massa is nothing.

Conclusion: you’re daft / troll / insincere / or all of the above.

Alonso out-qualifying a fresh Vandoorne to a clean-sheet is more impressive than Bottas outqualifying an over-the-hill Massa 17-4, in my opinion.

Vdn, that doesn't make me daft/troll/insecure or all of the above - that's a lazy childish comment from you with no substance to back it up please don't lower the tone of this thread to petty name-calling, I'd like to think you're old enough to know better and will give you the benefit of the doubt.

Fwiw, Vandoorne scored a point on his F1 debut in that dog of a McLaren. Far worse F1 drivers than him in recent years. Matt Bishop will explain to you how good he is.

[angrymoby]

A44RON said:

- point 1: so why was Button still able to finish runner-up in the 2011 WDC, if Button & Hamilton were taking points off each other?

- point 2: in 2012 Alonso finished on 278 points, while Massa finished on 122 points - when Alonso was finishing 1st/2nd/3rd in races but Massa was finishing 5th/6th/7th in those same races it's hard to justify that Massa was giving him a leg-up all the time... Massa wasn't getting close to Alonso.

McLaren had consistently the second-best car on the grid from 2010-2012 and Mercedes had the second-best car on the grid in 2013, so why didn't Hamilton replicate what Button did in 2011 and finish runner-up in at least one championship from 2010-2013....

1: because Jenson is quite good & Hamilton had a stinker, kinda like when having a No1 & No2 status but without the contract?

2: see above

you're really not getting this 'equal status' thing are you? ...dont worry though, you're in good company- Alonso didn't seem to understand it in 2007 either

[A44RON]

angrymoby said:

A44RON said:

- point 1: so why was Button still able to finish runner-up in the 2011 WDC, if Button & Hamilton were taking points off each other?

- point 2: in 2012 Alonso finished on 278 points, while Massa finished on 122 points - when Alonso was finishing 1st/2nd/3rd in races but Massa was finishing 5th/6th/7th in those same races it's hard to justify that Massa was giving him a leg-up all the time... Massa wasn't getting close to Alonso.

McLaren had consistently the second-best car on the grid from 2010-2012 and Mercedes had the second-best car on the grid in 2013, so why didn't Hamilton replicate what Button did in 2011 and finish runner-up in at least one championship from 2010-2013....

1: because Jenson is quite good & Hamilton had a stinker, kinda like when having a No1 & No2 status but without the contract?

2: see above

you're really not getting this 'equal status' thing are you? ...dont worry though, you're in good company- Alonso didn't seem to understand it in 2007 either

So in your opinion, did Hamilton also have stinkers in 2010, 2012 and 2013?

Also, your point 2 doesn't explain point 1.

[M5-911]

A44RON said:

so what's your stories/excuses for 2010-2013?

I reckon, 10 to 12 , McLaren had the best driver line up on the grid. Those guys made that car score points despite having more DNF than Alonso, webber and vettel together. They could score doesn't matter how unrielable that car was and how much McLaren screwed pit stops and strategies....

Again, Hamilton was fighting a team mate world champion.
Vettel had a number 2 driver as a team mate as well as Alonso...

Check the stories...

I'll stop here. It was fun to debate you. 🙂