The Official 2016 Belgian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**
Discussion
Blayney said:
Dr Z said:
Lot's of superb work
Some very interesting things to look at there! I find 2013 -> 2014 very interesting. It seems, as you say, Lewis got to grips with the car quickly, but suffered higher deg. He clearly must have worked on this for 2014 and Rosberg became the better qualifier... but the race is where the championship is won! Very interesting stuff, thank you.
Crafty_ said:
Dr Z said:
- | - | - | Rosberg | Teammate | Rosberg | Teammate | Rosberg | Teammate |
Reliability | Teammate (s) | Year | Q | Q | R | R | Q* | Q* |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
22% | Webber | 2006 | 13.5 | 10.75 | 10 | 7.25 | 12.39 | 10.833 |
65% | Wurz/Nakajima | 2007 | 9.91 | 15.55 | 9.91 | 10.73 | 9.47 | 15.88 |
78% | Nakajima | 2008 | 12.71 | 15.5 | 10.57 | 12.86 | 11.94 | 15.06 |
76% | Nakajima | 2009 | 8.85 | 12.77 | 7.23 | 12.46 | 8.41 | 12.65 |
79% | Schumacher | 2010 | 7.8 | 9.33 | 6.93 | 8.8 | 7.32 | 9.42 |
68% | Schumacher | 2011 | 7.62 | 11 | 7.31 | 8.54 | 7.53 | 10.32 |
50% | Schumacher | 2012 | 11.1 | 9.2 | 10.6 | 9.5 | 9.45 | 9.05 |
79% | Hamilton | 2013 | 4.26 | 3.53 | 5 | 5.6 | 4.42 | 3.21 |
74% | Hamilton | 2014 | 1.71 | 4.5 (2.16) | 2.71 (1.84) | 1.5 | 1.68 | 3.95 (2.24) |
84% | Hamilton | 2015 | 1.75 | 1.38 | 2.22 | 1.81 | 2.05 | 1.58 |
92% | Hamilton | 2016 | 1.5 | 6.25 (2.44) | 2.58 | 2.33 (1.77) | 1.54 | 5.85 (2.3) |
Dr Z said:
That number only reflects the percentage of races both drivers have finished which is all but one. Except Baku and maybe Bahrain, Hamilton had a healthy car to race with as his problems were in or before qualifying.... Baku's result skews his qualifying average a bit (1.4 vs 2.3) but that was driver inflicted so a pretty fair reflection of things. Bahrain is racing, I guess? So, overall, a 92% reliability but the numbers in brackets should indicate how the performance was when mechanical unreliability were not a factor (i.e. excluding China, Russia and Belgium).
It's a harsh man that blames Hamilton's race problems in Baku on Hamilton. Not qualifying, which was entirely his problem, but in the race he had a badly configured ECU and had to guess his way out of it.Anyway, I guess you really aren't going to start the Monza thread. Anyone else ...
Jez
Z3MCJez said:
Dr Z said:
That number only reflects the percentage of races both drivers have finished which is all but one. Except Baku and maybe Bahrain, Hamilton had a healthy car to race with as his problems were in or before qualifying.... Baku's result skews his qualifying average a bit (1.4 vs 2.3) but that was driver inflicted so a pretty fair reflection of things. Bahrain is racing, I guess? So, overall, a 92% reliability but the numbers in brackets should indicate how the performance was when mechanical unreliability were not a factor (i.e. excluding China, Russia and Belgium).
It's a harsh man that blames Hamilton's race problems in Baku on Hamilton. Not qualifying, which was entirely his problem, but in the race he had a badly configured ECU and had to guess his way out of it.Anyway, I guess you really aren't going to start the Monza thread. Anyone else ...
Jez
Joking aside, I left his race finishing position in because it doesn't affect his average all that much nor does it detract from the overall point: he has been outpacing his teammate in the race. He finished 5th in Baku and was looking at a possible 3rd. Given, how much he's been outpacing Rosberg this year, I feel 3rd vs 5th won't make a blind bit of difference in the grand scheme of things. This is easily going to be his 4th WDC.
Ps: sorry yes I'm not getting a huge amount of free time at work these days.
VladD said:
Not usually a fan of Hughes but he's got it spot on this time. Verstappen needs to be taught a lesson and soon before someone gets seriously hurt. Dr Z said:
RTFM!
Joking aside, I left his race finishing position in because it doesn't affect his average all that much nor does it detract from the overall point: he has been outpacing his teammate in the race. He finished 5th in Baku and was looking at a possible 3rd. Given, how much he's been outpacing Rosberg this year, I feel 3rd vs 5th won't make a blind bit of difference in the grand scheme of things. This is easily going to be his 4th WDC.
Ps: sorry yes I'm not getting a huge amount of free time at work these days.
Hamilton didn't exactly rocket forward from the back of the grid - even left behind by a McLaren. The third place is a bit of a flatter to deceive I feel - take away the various crashes and I doubt he'd have made it into the top ten. Not convinced he'll have it that easy. Especially as all the Mercedes customer teams will get uprated engines after Japan, while he'll still be on the old spec.Joking aside, I left his race finishing position in because it doesn't affect his average all that much nor does it detract from the overall point: he has been outpacing his teammate in the race. He finished 5th in Baku and was looking at a possible 3rd. Given, how much he's been outpacing Rosberg this year, I feel 3rd vs 5th won't make a blind bit of difference in the grand scheme of things. This is easily going to be his 4th WDC.
Ps: sorry yes I'm not getting a huge amount of free time at work these days.
Flooble said:
Hamilton didn't exactly rocket forward from the back of the grid - even left behind by a McLaren. The third place is a bit of a flatter to deceive I feel - take away the various crashes and I doubt he'd have made it into the top ten.
I think that was Hamilton cruising off the line and coasting into T1 to negate the risk of getting caught up in the usual La Source first corner bun fight. I think he'd have been well into the points even without stoppages and safety cars IMO. HustleRussell said:
Flooble said:
Hamilton didn't exactly rocket forward from the back of the grid - even left behind by a McLaren. The third place is a bit of a flatter to deceive I feel - take away the various crashes and I doubt he'd have made it into the top ten.
I think that was Hamilton cruising off the line and coasting into T1 to negate the risk of getting caught up in the usual La Source first corner bun fight. I think he'd have been well into the points even without stoppages and safety cars IMO. Flooble said:
Hamilton didn't exactly rocket forward from the back of the grid - even left behind by a McLaren. The third place is a bit of a flatter to deceive I feel - take away the various crashes and I doubt he'd have made it into the top ten. Not convinced he'll have it that easy. Especially as all the Mercedes customer teams will get uprated engines after Japan, while he'll still be on the old spec.
From the back of the grid - going into such a tight corner where there is a pretty good chance of there being an incident off the start: cautious start was the way to go: dont get mixed up with a silly puncture or broken wing. From 21st he wasnt going win the race off a good start and poking his nose in - but could have lost the race.then running at a good pace, but not taking too much out the tyres running too closely to a car in front: eak the tyres out to minimise number of stops and lower the risk of the rears blistering
VladD said:
I wholeheartedly agree with this excellent article, and this comment ,"His PlayStation-esque blocking techniques will end badly for someone, and sooner rather than later".
Who has the balls to dole out the black flags ?
Flooble said:
Hamilton didn't exactly rocket forward from the back of the grid - even left behind by a McLaren. The third place is a bit of a flatter to deceive I feel - take away the various crashes and I doubt he'd have made it into the top ten. Not convinced he'll have it that easy. Especially as all the Mercedes customer teams will get uprated engines after Japan, while he'll still be on the old spec.
I believe we were talking about his problems in the Baku GP...but I agree that third place in this race was due to a large slice of luck, I still think he'd have been well into points on a normal race. I would put his finishing position anywhere between 5-7.I'm convinced that he'll be able to win this WDC comfortably because of the buffer Merc have built up on Red Bull and Ferrari drivers, his only real challenger is Rosberg and he has outraced him whenever they both finish. Now he's got more than enough PUs for the rest of the season, if anything Rosberg will be on the backfoot on mileage/performance.
The late season upgrade could help Rosberg but Hamilton will be able to run his PUs harder to match. Unless he suffers further reliability problems which could provide a twist in the tail...Hamilton has got this one in the bag I feel.
Dr Z said:
I believe we were talking about his problems in the Baku GP...but I agree that third place in this race was due to a large slice of luck, I still think he'd have been well into points on a normal race. I would put his finishing position anywhere between 5-7.
I'm convinced that he'll be able to win this WDC comfortably because of the buffer Merc have built up on Red Bull and Ferrari drivers, his only real challenger is Rosberg and he has outraced him whenever they both finish. Now he's got more than enough PUs for the rest of the season, if anything Rosberg will be on the backfoot on mileage/performance.
The late season upgrade could help Rosberg but Hamilton will be able to run his PUs harder to match. Unless he suffers further reliability problems which could provide a twist in the tail...Hamilton has got this one in the bag I feel.
Sorry yes, I was talking about Belgium. I agree that only Rosberg can challenge for the title and it remains to be seen how much more power Mercedes are able to squeeze out of their design. I imagine they are well into marginal gains by now and possibly some of the late season improvements can be offset in other ways. E.g. if the Japan update improves fuel economy, allowing Rosberg to carry less fuel and thus run faster, Hamilton could offset that by also carrying less fuel, ensuring he gets ahead, and then blocking Rosberg while in fuel-saving mode. I think it's going to be fascinating to watch whether the pendulum continues to swing back and forth. Particularly as Belgium is the first race where a Mercedes was able to get away from pole cleanly. If their clutch-start issues reoccur and things get scrappy everything could turnabout again, depending on who gets unlucky in the melee.I'm convinced that he'll be able to win this WDC comfortably because of the buffer Merc have built up on Red Bull and Ferrari drivers, his only real challenger is Rosberg and he has outraced him whenever they both finish. Now he's got more than enough PUs for the rest of the season, if anything Rosberg will be on the backfoot on mileage/performance.
The late season upgrade could help Rosberg but Hamilton will be able to run his PUs harder to match. Unless he suffers further reliability problems which could provide a twist in the tail...Hamilton has got this one in the bag I feel.
lord summerisle said:
Flooble said:
Hamilton didn't exactly rocket forward from the back of the grid - even left behind by a McLaren. The third place is a bit of a flatter to deceive I feel - take away the various crashes and I doubt he'd have made it into the top ten. Not convinced he'll have it that easy. Especially as all the Mercedes customer teams will get uprated engines after Japan, while he'll still be on the old spec.
From the back of the grid - going into such a tight corner where there is a pretty good chance of there being an incident off the start: cautious start was the way to go: dont get mixed up with a silly puncture or broken wing. From 21st he wasnt going win the race off a good start and poking his nose in - but could have lost the race.then running at a good pace, but not taking too much out the tyres running too closely to a car in front: eak the tyres out to minimise number of stops and lower the risk of the rears blistering
But then as Murray Walker always said, F1 spelt backwards is enof (already). Whatever, he did what he had to do. He had luck on his side, and possibly some of it was bad. Had the Ferraris and RBs not decided to crash, he might have driven a different race.
Derek Smith said:
lord summerisle said:
Flooble said:
Hamilton didn't exactly rocket forward from the back of the grid - even left behind by a McLaren. The third place is a bit of a flatter to deceive I feel - take away the various crashes and I doubt he'd have made it into the top ten. Not convinced he'll have it that easy. Especially as all the Mercedes customer teams will get uprated engines after Japan, while he'll still be on the old spec.
From the back of the grid - going into such a tight corner where there is a pretty good chance of there being an incident off the start: cautious start was the way to go: dont get mixed up with a silly puncture or broken wing. From 21st he wasnt going win the race off a good start and poking his nose in - but could have lost the race.then running at a good pace, but not taking too much out the tyres running too closely to a car in front: eak the tyres out to minimise number of stops and lower the risk of the rears blistering
But then as Murray Walker always said, F1 spelt backwards is enof (already). Whatever, he did what he had to do. He had luck on his side, and possibly some of it was bad. Had the Ferraris and RBs not decided to crash, he might have driven a different race.
garyhun said:
freddytin said:
Who has the balls to dole out the black flags ?
Unfortunately no one it would seem.The disappointing thing is that just like Schumacher he has so much talent he doesn't need to pull dirty tricks to get his own way most of the time, but he still chooses to. On the rare occasion he is beaten into a corner he should learn when is time to give it up. I don't care what the rules say there is a certain unwritten code of conduct in that the drivers should not break.... for safety and good sportsmanship purposes.
Edited by VolvoT5 on Wednesday 31st August 17:24
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