Lewis Hamilton G.O.A.T. ?

[paulguitar]

A44RON said:

Fwiw, Vandoorne scored a point on his F1 debut in that dog of a McLaren. Far worse F1 drivers than him in recent years. Matt Bishop will explain to you how good he is.

So good that he's doing Formula E.

[Bo_apex]

angrymoby said:

A44RON said:

- point 1: so why was Button still able to finish runner-up in the 2011 WDC, if Button & Hamilton were taking points off each other?

- point 2: in 2012 Alonso finished on 278 points, while Massa finished on 122 points - when Alonso was finishing 1st/2nd/3rd in races but Massa was finishing 5th/6th/7th in those same races it's hard to justify that Massa was giving him a leg-up all the time... Massa wasn't getting close to Alonso.

McLaren had consistently the second-best car on the grid from 2010-2012 and Mercedes had the second-best car on the grid in 2013, so why didn't Hamilton replicate what Button did in 2011 and finish runner-up in at least one championship from 2010-2013....

1: because Jenson is quite good & Hamilton had a stinker, kinda like when having a No1 & No2 status but without the contract?

2: see above

you're really not getting this 'equal status' thing are you? ...dont worry though, you're in good company- Alonso didn't seem to understand it in 2007 either

"We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Alonso" - Ron Dennis

Team Hamilton

[super7]

I have a feeling that Hamilton might take a sabbatical next year......

This will allow Bottas a chance at a world Championship in his last year at the team, Russell to come up to the top team, and Hamilton will be back to Mercedes replacing Bottas in 2022 with the new regulations, refreshed after destroying our ears with an album or two

???

[angrymoby]

Bo_apex said:

"We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Alonso" - Ron Dennis

Team Hamilton

Alonso was lucky he was still in a McLaren seat to even be in with a shout (he would've been sacked without MM intervention)

[A44RON]

M5-911 said:

A44RON said:

so what's your stories/excuses for 2010-2013?

I reckon, 10 to 12 , McLaren had the best driver line up on the grid. Those guys made that car score points despite having more DNF than Alonso, webber and vettel together. They could score doesn't matter how unrielable that car was and how much McLaren screwed pit stops and strategies....

Again, Hamilton was fighting a team mate world champion.
Vettel had a number 2 driver as a team mate as well as Alonso...

Check the stories...

I'll stop here. It was fun to debate you. ??

But according to angrymoby "Ferrari employing the 'all eggs in one basket' philosophy which sacrifices WCC pts for WDC pts" - if that's the case - ie clear number 1 & number 2 teams ( Red Bull & Ferrari) sacrifices WCC points, while equal teams (McLaren & Mercedes) sacrifices WDC points - then it contradicts both your views = when in 2010 both Red Bull drivers finished close together at 1st & 3rd, and both McLaren drivers finished so close together at 4th & 5th...

Then in 2011 - both Red Bull drivers finished 1st & 3rd, while both McLaren drivers finished 2nd and 5th... And in 2012 with both McLaren drivers finishing 4th & 5th with just 2 points separating them. Then you had the Ferrari drivers finishing 2nd & 6th in 2010, 4th & 6th in 2011 (closer), 2nd & 6th in 2012, 2nd & 8th in 2013, Red Bull finishing 1st & 3rd in 2013... the data does not correlate to your opinions. Only that Alonso was significantly outperforming Massa during that time, which anyone looking at it objectively can see.

McLaren finished 2nd in the Constructors Championship 2010 & 2011, Ferrari 2012 due to Alonso's massive points haul and Mercedes in 2013.

[A44RON]

paulguitar said:

A44RON said:

Fwiw, Vandoorne scored a point on his F1 debut in that dog of a McLaren. Far worse F1 drivers than him in recent years. Matt Bishop will explain to you how good he is.

So good that he's doing Formula E.

and with Perez potentially out of F1 next year through no fault of his own it proves that F1 is more political than down to pure talent.

You should also have a chat with the ex editor of F1 Racing mag and McLaren's former Comms Director...

[Bo_apex]

angrymoby said:

Bo_apex said:

"We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Alonso" - Ron Dennis

Team Hamilton

Alonso was lucky he was still in a McLaren seat to even be in with a shout (he would've been sacked without MM intervention)

Lucky ?

He wasn't getting equal treatment from Uncle Ron.

I wouldn't call that lucky or fair.

[paulguitar]

A44RON said:

You should also have a chat with the ex editor of F1 Racing mag and McLaren's former Comms Director...

If he'd been good enough he'd still be there in F1. Reminded me of Jan Magnussen a bit, he was fantastic in the lower formulae but couldn't translate it into the top category.

[angrymoby]

Bo_apex said:

I wouldn't call that lucky or fair.

is that before or after Hungary?

[Bo_apex]

angrymoby said:

Bo_apex said:

I wouldn't call that lucky or fair.

is that before or after Hungary?

?

Best check the years and wash out your ears

[wc98]

A44RON said:

It is, but not a clean-sheet like what Alonso did to Vandoorne and what Russell achieved last year etc etc.

Bottas is good at qualifying (very much less so in the race), but in no way would he out-qualify Verstappen over a season - Verstappen would absolutely destroy him like he has Albon & Gasly. I think Leclerc and Russell would too.

this is thing with this type of discussion, so much is subjective. no one actually knows what would happen with verstappen with either hamilton or bottas as a team mate. however,we do know what his dad thinks would happen if he was in a team with hamilton. i personally think hamilton and verstappen in the same car would see hamilton do to verstappen what he is doing to bottas but it would look even worse as max appears to be more hot headed than valtteri . that is pure speculation though and i wouldn't attempt to suggest my opinion is anything other than just that.

[angrymoby]

Bo_apex said:

?

Best check the years and wash out your ears

i thought we were talking about 2007 ...unless you've flushed more than just your ear wax out

[Bo_apex]

angrymoby said:

Bo_apex said:

?

Best check the years and wash out your ears

i thought we were talking about 2007 ...unless you've flushed more than just your ear wax out

Nope.
Equal Status was being talked about.
Alonso did not receive equal treatment at McLaren.

[angrymoby]

Bo_apex said:

Nope.
Equal Status was being talked about.
Alonso did not receive equal treatment at McLaren.

<sigh> again, are you alluding to treatment pre or post Hungary

if pre-Hungary, you're a one eyed idiot

if post Hungary, then it really isn't that fking surprising is it? (although i'd argue that McLaren are/ were above that)

[M5-911]

Bo_apex said:

Nope.
Equal Status was being talked about.
Alonso did not receive equal treatment at McLaren.

Actually he was the number one driver until Hungary then given equal treatment afterwards. FIA made sure equal treatment was applied. Mosley could not stand that Ron Denis brought Hamilton to F1. Alonso got a nice protection from the FIA to make sure he could race fair and square despite being deeply involved in the Ferrari-McLaren saga...

[Bo_apex]

angrymoby said:

Bo_apex said:

Nope.
Equal Status was being talked about.
Alonso did not receive equal treatment at McLaren.

<sigh> again, are you alluding to treatment pre or post Hungary

if pre-Hungary, you're a one eyed idiot

if post Hungary, then it really isn't that fking surprising is it? (although i'd argue that McLaren are/ were above that)

Seriously, are you ok ?

You have your years and ears mixed up.

I mentioned the MP4-24 in 2009 where Lewis didn't deliver anything impressive, until McLaren had spent a fortune on it for Hungary.

I later mentioned Alonso not getting equal
Treatment when team mate to Lewis.

Two different themes.

It's possible that you're spending too much time on here ?

[angrymoby]

Bo_apex said:

Seriously, are you ok ?

You have your years and ears mixed up.

I mentioned the MP4-24 in 2009 where Lewis didn't deliver anything impressive, until McLaren had spent a fortune on it for Hungary.

I later mentioned Alonso not getting equal
Treatment when team mate to Lewis.

Two different themes.

you don't seem to be able to track which threads you're replying in ...as you've only mentioned 2009 in the other (Lewis Hamilton Vol. 2) thread

Bo_apex said:

It's possible that you're spending too much time on here ?

go & have a lie down, son

Edited by angrymoby on Monday 2nd November 19:18

[Bo_apex]

angrymoby said:

go & have a lie down, son

You're such a friendly chap

[angrymoby]

Bo_apex said:

You're such a friendly chap

so after you've made a basic blunder (which btw you were more than happy to call out, when you thought it someone else had made it) you've decided to post the above, rather than 'sorry my bad, i fked up' & we all move on?

[clarki]

I recon (but have no idea!!) Hamilton gets title 7, gets 100 wins & poles and then hangs it up.

Finishes at the top and lets people debate was he the GOAT, and how much more could he have done, forever more...

Even he must be getting bored of the F1 merry-go-round by now, been doing it for years, and at 35 still has plenty time for a 2nd career.

No??