Official 2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**
Discussion
mk1coopers said:
Altrezia said:
If they'd crossed the line as they were at that point in time, who'd have won the race?
This ^^^^And if Perez was short fuelled and about to run out it could have extended the safety car period
Muzzer79 said:
I agree that rules are rules. However, rules should be applied with common sense.
The rules regarding overtaking under the safety car are there to prevent people racing under the safety car and gaining advantage whilst the race is ‘suspended’
Max’s ‘overtake’ was not gaining an advantage. People are using it as an excuse for a penalty to be applied that corrects the wrongs of the safety car usage itself and as another line in the lists of errors made by race control.
I don’t think that’s necessary. Race control made enough of a monumental cock-up with lapped cars and bringing the safety car in early, we don’t even need to add this too.
Max’s ‘overtake’ was gaining a massive advantage. Lewis was forced off line, and denied the opportunity to warm up his tyres. The rules regarding overtaking under the safety car are there to prevent people racing under the safety car and gaining advantage whilst the race is ‘suspended’
Max’s ‘overtake’ was not gaining an advantage. People are using it as an excuse for a penalty to be applied that corrects the wrongs of the safety car usage itself and as another line in the lists of errors made by race control.
I don’t think that’s necessary. Race control made enough of a monumental cock-up with lapped cars and bringing the safety car in early, we don’t even need to add this too.
It was quite deliberate and a cynical breach of one of the oldest rules in the book, that one does not overtake under yellow flags.
The stewards would have given him a penalty under any other circumstances, but one can only guess they chose not to because of the championship position. There needs to be an understanding of how much ‘leaning on’ was done by various parties, that they couldn’t really change the result after the
9966 posts on this thread!
Sandpit Steve said:
Muzzer79 said:
I agree that rules are rules. However, rules should be applied with common sense.
The rules regarding overtaking under the safety car are there to prevent people racing under the safety car and gaining advantage whilst the race is ‘suspended’
Max’s ‘overtake’ was not gaining an advantage. People are using it as an excuse for a penalty to be applied that corrects the wrongs of the safety car usage itself and as another line in the lists of errors made by race control.
I don’t think that’s necessary. Race control made enough of a monumental cock-up with lapped cars and bringing the safety car in early, we don’t even need to add this too.
Max’s ‘overtake’ was gaining a massive advantage. Lewis was forced off line, and denied the opportunity to warm up his tyres. The rules regarding overtaking under the safety car are there to prevent people racing under the safety car and gaining advantage whilst the race is ‘suspended’
Max’s ‘overtake’ was not gaining an advantage. People are using it as an excuse for a penalty to be applied that corrects the wrongs of the safety car usage itself and as another line in the lists of errors made by race control.
I don’t think that’s necessary. Race control made enough of a monumental cock-up with lapped cars and bringing the safety car in early, we don’t even need to add this too.
It was quite deliberate and a cynical breach of one of the oldest rules in the book, that one does not overtake under yellow flags.
The stewards would have given him a penalty under any other circumstances, but one can only guess they chose not to because of the championship position. There needs to be an understanding of how much ‘leaning on’ was done by various parties, that they couldn’t really change the result after the
9966 posts on this thread!
So to stop it happening again perhaps ‘single file’ needs to be added to the rule, or / and no overlap, it’s absolutely correct that MV being where he was stopped LH using parts of the track he may have wanted to and he may not have warmed his tyres as much as needed, MV should not have been alongside.
I don’t think the issue with the overtake was so much about how much advantage was gained, but more about an essential rule for the safety of marshals / recovery teams and drivers. It’s not an area where the officials should encourage any infringement. Sadly, under Masi, and despite the previous incidents that have lead to these rules being in place, safety is secondary to ‘the show’
The fact that the officials only responded to the advantage element and ignored the safety element tells you all you need to know about the regime. Added to the braking of other SC rules, really does show them in a very dim light.
The fact that the officials only responded to the advantage element and ignored the safety element tells you all you need to know about the regime. Added to the braking of other SC rules, really does show them in a very dim light.
mk1coopers said:
So to stop it happening again perhaps ‘single file’ needs to be added to the rule, or / and no overlap, it’s absolutely correct that MV being where he was stopped LH using parts of the track he may have wanted to and he may not have warmed his tyres as much as needed, MV should not have been alongside.
He possibly prevented Hamilton from weaving and warming up his tyres, while suffering the same. But Verstappen had newer tyres, so maybe he wasn't too concerned, who knows. mk1coopers said:
So to stop it happening again perhaps ‘single file’ needs to be added to the rule, or / and no overlap, it’s absolutely correct that MV being where he was stopped LH using parts of the track he may have wanted to and he may not have warmed his tyres as much as needed, MV should not have been alongside.
Agreed, it would make sense.BrettMRC said:
mk1coopers said:
peterpan0 said:
BrettMRC said:
No Micheal, No.
its called a motor race 
Flooble said:
It's probably worth noting that the other part of the rules is about not driving erratically once the safety car lights go out:
"In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the
point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves
no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other
drivers or impede the restart."
I feel that one could argue that Hamilton was not maintaining a consistent pace prior to the restart - he was speeding up and slowing down, nearly stopping. While that's pretty much accepted - the leader has to keep those behind guessing to avoid being jumped - it would, if you wanted to be funny about it, mean that applying the letter of the law would result in punishing both Max (for nosing ahead) and Lewis (for erratic pacing).
Regarding a red flag restart, and the logical thought :
(I'm really only posting this as I want to see this thread hit 500!)
It's difficult trying to recall that far back, but the particular moment when Verstappen overtook Hamilton may well have been as Hamilton tried to work out what the safety car was doing. The lead car does control the pace, & the onus is on the car behind to stay far enough back that there's no risk of collision - Verstappen shouldn't have been close enough to be impeded. I don't recall who had what tyre wise, & Vertsappen may well have had used rather than brand new, but they were in far better condition than Hamilton's, which were fairly shot. by then. Did Hamilton have brand new left for a red flag restart? I can't recall, frankly, but I suspect it wouldn't matter - Verstappens track record is that he'd have dive bombed Hamilton anyway, stuff the consequences, so Hamilton would either have got out of his way, & lost the place, or lost any hope in the gravel trap with him."In order to avoid the likelihood of accidents before the safety car returns to the pits, from the
point at which the lights on the car are turned out drivers must proceed at a pace which involves
no erratic acceleration or braking nor any other manoeuvre which is likely to endanger other
drivers or impede the restart."
I feel that one could argue that Hamilton was not maintaining a consistent pace prior to the restart - he was speeding up and slowing down, nearly stopping. While that's pretty much accepted - the leader has to keep those behind guessing to avoid being jumped - it would, if you wanted to be funny about it, mean that applying the letter of the law would result in punishing both Max (for nosing ahead) and Lewis (for erratic pacing).
Regarding a red flag restart, and the logical thought :
MarkwG said:
Perhaps, although Verstappen would logically be right up behind on new tyres - so a banzai move would benefit him, rather than Hamilton. That's part of why I lean away from the conspiracy idea, because there was a neater way of arranging that result: the "Masi" way, for want of a better description, seems clumsy, unethical, messy & fraught with too much risk, which is as it turned out.
Did Max have any spare softs left? He started the race on softs (having burned out his mediums in qualifying) so I suspect the set he put on at the end were used? Whereas I imagine Hamilton had a new set. So a standing start would likely have not seen Max get past? Especially as Red Bull weren't making brilliant getaways towards the end of the year. (I'm really only posting this as I want to see this thread hit 500!)
(Did it work, yet...?)
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