Azerbaijan. Seriously Bernie, Azerbaiflippingjan?

[Derek Smith]

RKi said:

Crafty_ said:

Nice.

You might not like the bloke but he's done far more good than bad to the sport.

K i take that back, what i said was a bit harsh. I don't want the guy to die, and i appreciate what hes done for the sport.

However, there's no denying hes gone bonkers in his recent years.

My point of view.

I have no desire to see Ecclestone die. I'd like to see his influence removed from F1.

I keep reading about all the unselfish good that he's done over the years. In these two posts we have the suggestion that he's done more good than bad for F1 and that the poster appreciates what he's done for the sport, presumably this is good.

Leaving aside his time in charge of Brabham, when he produced some of the best looking cars ever in F1, what unselfish acts has the bloke done?

An honest question, and one which, hopefully, will not generate angry retorts nor insults.

[coppice]

I think that to his credit he has helped friends in need on occasion .

But to say he has done more good than harm to the sport depends upon whether one thinks that blanket TV coverage of races often held in daft places and the virtual destruction of single seater racing other than F1 (including the loss of the opportunity of watching fast single seaters at UK circuits - we now have no equivalent to 'proper' F2 or F3000 and GP 2 is a warm up act for GPs ) is a good thing. Mosley's grubby deal to sell F1 to Ecclestone at a low price was either naive or criminally negligent as Ecclestone then sold the sport to a bunch of investors who have made obscene amounts of money , as has Ecclestone as continuing F 1 supremo.

If a massive worldwide TV audience of casual fans is the sole criterion of success then fine - BCE has been a benign influence . And that is the majority view I guess as few people actually seem to know or car about the wider world of the sport and are content to watch their F1 races on the telly. Most of them are casual fans and a shockingly low number of the F1 fans I meet either know anything about the sport's history or anything about any other form of racing apart from BTCC- that well known TV pantomime crashfest .

But if you think that F1 is a daft parody of what it was, if you think that it has betrayed its informed fan base(ie the people who actually watch races live and also enjoy other levels of motor sport ) then BCE is living proof that absolute power corrupts absolutely .

[Derek Smith]

coppice said:

I think that to his credit he has helped friends in need on occasion .

I think he has subbed teams to keep them on the grid. My understanding is that this amounted to reduced/abolition of fees in some cases, but I'm not sure if that can be classed as unselfish. He needed to keep a fullish grid.

To be fair to Ecclestone, I don't think the destruction of other formulae was entirely down to him. I feel the worst one could level at him was that he took no steps to support them. I'm unaware of any involvement of his in denuding the FIA of any income from the rights. This has cost the FIA any real influence in the sport.

I went to Donington in the late 80s for the WSC. It wasn't packed but there were quite a few there. In discussing the destruction of WSC to a team manager in LMES some years later I was told that he, and others, were of the opinion it was deliberate. No one wants the circuits getting too much money, do they.

[chevronb37]

Terry Lovell's book 'Bernie's Game' describes how Bernie did a fair old job of bringing down Group C, Class 1 DTM/ITC and FIA GT through the 1990s - all championships I rather liked.

I can't really be bothered getting very upset about F1. Of the hundreds of race meetings I've attended in my life, five had been Grand Prix. I've barely earned the right to comment, let alone complain.

The sport is well past 'fixing' in my opinion. There's so much wrong with it. I'll just head to the odd race when the circus hits a circuit I like; this year's trip is to Austin in Texas. Great track and great holiday to go with it. Otherwise there are so many other great race spectacles in the UK and the world that I'd sooner be positive about them than negative about F1. There are so many utterly amazing aspects of this sport that there's just no benefit to worrying about F1 tying itself in knots when you can go and watch so many fantastic categories of racing bereft of the nonsense which goes with modern F1.

[bigbadbikercats]

coppice said:

I think that to his credit he has helped friends in need on occasion .

Shafted a few too.

Colin Seeley (ex GP sidecar racer, owner of the rights to build the AJS 7R and Matchless G50 motorcycle GP race engines for quite a while, builder of the very successful Seeley race bike frames, brieflly partner in and provider of fabrication facilities to Brabham) had some, errrr.... "interesting" things to say about Ecclestone and his business methods in his autobiography....

[Otispunkmeyer]

Corpulent Tosser said:

Lack of spectator facilities shouldn't be a problem, getting an entry visa will put off most people from going.

You used to be able to get a visa atthe airport $100, but they changed that a few years back and you had to get one from the embassy in London before travel, it was not a quick process. That was a couple of years back it may have got easier.

I can't see an AZ F1 happening anytime soon though.

Don't think it is. My Dad works there and on his 4 week leave he ended up staying another 2 weeks while they waited on the visa from the embassy in London. Then again I am not sure how long its supposed to take to get a visa.

[NRS]

bigbadbikercats said:

coppice said:

I think that to his credit he has helped friends in need on occasion .

Shafted a few too.

Colin Seeley (ex GP sidecar racer, owner of the rights to build the AJS 7R and Matchless G50 motorcycle GP race engines for quite a while, builder of the very successful Seeley race bike frames, brieflly partner in and provider of fabrication facilities to Brabham) had some, errrr.... "interesting" things to say about Ecclestone and his business methods in his autobiography....

I guess he's a complicated person. Syd Watkins seemed to like him, and said he did a lot for improving safety in F1, so that is a good thing. However this obviously it results in it being visually less exciting, so part of the reason for him having destroyed F1. I'm not saying anyone wants it to be less safe, but of course it will look less exciting having a turbo monster slipping around close to the walls of a track. I'm too young to have been there (only born in the late 80s) but have tried to find out a bit about the history. It's often really interesting to hear all the personal stories events etc.

[coppice]

One of the consolations of being ..errmm.. middle aged(and then some ) is having stood trackside just before the cars braked for Druids the last time turbo F1 cars raced at Brands in 1986. Utterly bloody insanely quick - some even sounded the part and others smelt it too ! Stick shift H pattern ; steel discs ; rubbish aero compared to now and just a thousand bhp or so to tame in qualifying. Never seen anything like it before or since.

[Derek Smith]

coppice said:

One of the consolations of being ..errmm.. middle aged(and then some ) is having stood trackside just before the cars braked for Druids the last time turbo F1 cars raced at Brands in 1986. Utterly bloody insanely quick - some even sounded the part and others smelt it too ! Stick shift H pattern ; steel discs ; rubbish aero compared to now and just a thousand bhp or so to tame in qualifying. Never seen anything like it before or since.

I was there with my face pressed up against the catch-fencing. I had ringing in my ears for days afterwards. I'm not sure if it was the sound of the engines of the cheering as Mansell came into Paddock after Piquet's tyre stop.

I was the tall bloke with a black top. Did you see me?

[coppice]

It was you was it - I lent you a tenner didn't I?

[Derek Smith]

coppice said:

It was you was it - I lent you a tenner didn't I?

I walked into that one.

As I was walking back to my car I was asked by one bloke if I'd run him and his mate to pick up his car. I asked where it was and he said it was on the M20 hard shoulder. I pointed out that it would probably have been towed, but he said that there were 'hundreds' there. I said that I would commit an offence if I stopped on a motorway. He said: What are you, a f*****g copper. I said not only was I one but so was my mate.

Me and my mate were laughing at it and then we had to wait over an hour to get out of the car park.

I went to a GP Masters race six or seven years ago at Silverstone and took the programme from the 86 GP with me and got Mansell to autograph it. As all the other programmes were for the Masters race he stopped when I put it in front of him and turned to the cover. I said: You first GP win, and he laughed, saying, I remember it.

[coppice]

His first GP win was Brands GP of Europe in 85 I think.

[Derek Smith]

coppice said:

His first GP win was Brands GP of Europe in 85 I think.

Yes, you're right. The European.

Thanks for the polite correction.

Nice to know I owe no one £10 as well.

[DJRC]

coppice said:

Exige77 said:

I have been to a few F1 races and I have to say I prefer it on TV.

The hassle, queues, parking, expense etc are not worth the bit of extra excitement of seeing it live.

Words almost fail me . If you can't be moved by the sight and sound of an F1 car compared to a 2D image with crap sound , watching what the director condescends to show you then please don't try to tell me that you are a motor sport enthusiast.

I agree with him to an extent. Attending a modern motorsport event is a ballache. I tend to only bother with Goodwood these days. I have found the shape and sound of an F1 car dull for many yrs. Everything is generic and the sound has been just white noise for a long time now. Sonorous the engines have not been!

But then the same is also true of Touring Cars and rallying. Gone are the days of decent cars...watching fwd hot hatches is not my idea of watching interesting motors...and rallying is basically the same. Dull hot hatches. Watching some no name no mark in a Fiesta? Give me strength.

Thank God I now have DTM and the European hillclimbs.

[chevronb37]

DJRC said:

I agree with him to an extent. Attending a modern motorsport event is a ballache. I tend to only bother with Goodwood these days. I have found the shape and sound of an F1 car dull for many yrs. Everything is generic and the sound has been just white noise for a long time now. Sonorous the engines have not been!

But then the same is also true of Touring Cars and rallying. Gone are the days of decent cars...watching fwd hot hatches is not my idea of watching interesting motors...and rallying is basically the same. Dull hot hatches. Watching some no name no mark in a Fiesta? Give me strength.

Thank God I now have DTM and the European hillclimbs.

Which of the European hillclimbs have you attended? I've got an offer on the table to go to the Rechberg next year. Really cannot wait - just trying to persuade Mrs Chev to join me on a road trip down there.

[DJRC]

chevronb37 said:

DJRC said:

I agree with him to an extent. Attending a modern motorsport event is a ballache. I tend to only bother with Goodwood these days. I have found the shape and sound of an F1 car dull for many yrs. Everything is generic and the sound has been just white noise for a long time now. Sonorous the engines have not been!

But then the same is also true of Touring Cars and rallying. Gone are the days of decent cars...watching fwd hot hatches is not my idea of watching interesting motors...and rallying is basically the same. Dull hot hatches. Watching some no name no mark in a Fiesta? Give me strength.

Thank God I now have DTM and the European hillclimbs.

Which of the European hillclimbs have you attended? I've got an offer on the table to go to the Rechberg next year. Really cannot wait - just trying to persuade Mrs Chev to join me on a road trip down there.

fk knows. Just turn up to a hill and there is usually something on every weekend during summer. There is loads of little local stuff that never makes the motoring news or is any way "famous" but are invariably fascinating.

[StevieBee]

Just returned from the AZ embassy to renew my Visa for a trip next week.

Been told that as it's a holiday in AZ, this won't be issued until the 28th, despite me requesting their express service.

If F1 does go there, they'll need to sort their visa issuing policy!

[chevronb37]

DJRC said:

chevronb37 said:

DJRC said:

I agree with him to an extent. Attending a modern motorsport event is a ballache. I tend to only bother with Goodwood these days. I have found the shape and sound of an F1 car dull for many yrs. Everything is generic and the sound has been just white noise for a long time now. Sonorous the engines have not been!

But then the same is also true of Touring Cars and rallying. Gone are the days of decent cars...watching fwd hot hatches is not my idea of watching interesting motors...and rallying is basically the same. Dull hot hatches. Watching some no name no mark in a Fiesta? Give me strength.

Thank God I now have DTM and the European hillclimbs.

Which of the European hillclimbs have you attended? I've got an offer on the table to go to the Rechberg next year. Really cannot wait - just trying to persuade Mrs Chev to join me on a road trip down there.

fk knows. Just turn up to a hill and there is usually something on every weekend during summer. There is loads of little local stuff that never makes the motoring news or is any way "famous" but are invariably fascinating.

Fair enough. I presumed you'd meant rounds of the FIA European Hillcimb Championship. I was just interested because the sport is so different on the Continent to the UK that I was hoping to gleen some expertise from you in advance of my visit.

[chevronb37]

DJRC said:

chevronb37 said:

DJRC said:

I agree with him to an extent. Attending a modern motorsport event is a ballache. I tend to only bother with Goodwood these days. I have found the shape and sound of an F1 car dull for many yrs. Everything is generic and the sound has been just white noise for a long time now. Sonorous the engines have not been!

But then the same is also true of Touring Cars and rallying. Gone are the days of decent cars...watching fwd hot hatches is not my idea of watching interesting motors...and rallying is basically the same. Dull hot hatches. Watching some no name no mark in a Fiesta? Give me strength.

Thank God I now have DTM and the European hillclimbs.

Which of the European hillclimbs have you attended? I've got an offer on the table to go to the Rechberg next year. Really cannot wait - just trying to persuade Mrs Chev to join me on a road trip down there.

fk knows. Just turn up to a hill and there is usually something on every weekend during summer. There is loads of little local stuff that never makes the motoring news or is any way "famous" but are invariably fascinating.

Fair enough. I presumed you'd meant rounds of the FIA European Hillcimb Championship. I was just interested because the sport is so different on the Continent to the UK that I was hoping to gleen some expertise from you in advance of my visit.