F1 vs Indycar, incredible pace difference

[Evangelion]

TheDeuce said:

... How is this for an idea: After each F1 season completes, all drivers are handed an Indycar and have one more race. It would be pretty epic for an F1 driver to win the WDC - AND, then go on to prove that when everyone has the same car, he is still quickest.. or not.

Hamilton won't want to do that then.

Munter said:

I fell asleep on the sofa after about 10 laps ...

Not surprised. Straight ahead ... turn left ... straight ahead ... turn left ... straight ahead ... turn left ... straight ahead ... turn left ... straight ahead ... turn left ... straight ahead ... turn left ... rinse and repeat for another 200 laps.

[Kraken]

Munter said:

Given people have been banging on about how the racing is no fun, it's only interesting to the hardcore fans etc for at least 20 years, I'm sure it'll be fine.

If the cash slows up, development will slow down, things will level off a bit among the teams, then someone will spend cash to win, and around we go again.

Lets enjoy it for what it is, not try and make it something it isn't and hasn't been.

You might want to have a look at the trend for worldwide viewing figures then if you think there isn't a problem. It's nearly half of what it was ten years ago.

Not to mention that everyone and his dog, including the people who own it are looking at ways to increase the on-track action. It's very far from fine unless you've got your head in the sand.

[Bullitt Five-Oh]

Talking about being "defensive"

Paul_M3 said:

"Engine party mode mumbo jumbo"? What, you mean like the 'push-to-pass' that Indycar has? It's simply the engine turned up to its maximum setting, it's not exactly black magic. I'm guessing you wouldn't describe 'push-to-pass' as wk in the same way though, for some reason?

You mean like the KERS that can be deployed in similar fashion to P2P? Right.

There's a massive difference between "overboost" and a mode that is designed to make the car much faster throughout the whole lap.

[Paul_M3]

Bullitt Five-Oh said:

Talking about being "defensive"

Paul_M3 said:

"Engine party mode mumbo jumbo"? What, you mean like the 'push-to-pass' that Indycar has? It's simply the engine turned up to its maximum setting, it's not exactly black magic. I'm guessing you wouldn't describe 'push-to-pass' as wk in the same way though, for some reason?

You mean like the KERS that can be deployed in similar fashion to P2P? Right.

There's a massive difference between "overboost" and a mode that is designed to make the car much faster throughout the whole lap.

Yes, like KERS deployment too.

They are all just engine modes giving extra bhp. The Indycar does it via increased boost pressure, and the F1 car via a combination of boost and KERS deployment.

The Indycar driver could use his entire overboost allocation on one lap of the race if he so wished. At COTA each P2P could be used for up to 20 seconds at a time, with 200 seconds available for the entire race. That’d easily cover a whole lap. If the rules allowed it to be used in qualifying as well it’d be turned on for the whole lap and would effectively be a ‘party mode’.

F1 drivers can select the ‘ultimate performance’ modes for very limited periods of the race when attacking or defending, but also have the option to leave the highest setting selected for the entire qualifying lap. There’s nothing really special about party mode, it’s just the engine being run to its absolute limits at the expense of reliability. All of the engines have various modes, some just go a bit higher than others.

That is the reason why I disagreed with your assertion that one is ‘mumbo jumbo’ and ‘wk’, (meaning the laptime isn’t a valid comparison), as from a technical standpoint that just simply didn’t make sense to me. It’s purely the engine running in its highest possible state of tune.

[Kraken]

Does seem to be a fairly pointless debate to be honest. Two cars built to entirely different regulations running in series with different goals don't lap at the same time. Big shock that.

Let's compare lap time of BTCC and DTM cars at Brands Hatch next shall we?

[Paul_M3]

Kraken said:

Does seem to be a fairly pointless debate to be honest. Two cars built to entirely different regulations running in series with different goals don't lap at the same time. Big shock that.

Let's compare lap time of BTCC and DTM cars at Brands Hatch next shall we?

Exactly. The lap times of pretty much every race series are determined by the regulations. Both Indycar and F1 cars could be built to lap much faster than they do.

I guess the main reason people like to draw a comparison is that many consider Indycar to be a US equivalent of F1. The two fastest open wheel racing series in the world. It is interesting to see how much difference in lap time there is, but it’s nothing to do with the technical abilities of the designers or the skill of the drivers.

[Munter]

Kraken said:

Munter said:

Given people have been banging on about how the racing is no fun, it's only interesting to the hardcore fans etc for at least 20 years, I'm sure it'll be fine.

If the cash slows up, development will slow down, things will level off a bit among the teams, then someone will spend cash to win, and around we go again.

Lets enjoy it for what it is, not try and make it something it isn't and hasn't been.

You might want to have a look at the trend for worldwide viewing figures then if you think there isn't a problem. It's nearly half of what it was ten years ago.

Not to mention that everyone and his dog, including the people who own it are looking at ways to increase the on-track action. It's very far from fine unless you've got your head in the sand.

So people are working on keeping it fine. So it'll be fine. Everything here is going to turn out just fine. There is no need to worry. It'll be different, rules will change, viewers will go up and down, cash spend will go up and down, chances are something called F1 will stay the fastest series around a bunch of race circuits for the rest of our lifetimes.

[Bullitt Five-Oh]

Paul_M3 said:

Bullitt Five-Oh said:

Talking about being "defensive"

Paul_M3 said:

"Engine party mode mumbo jumbo"? What, you mean like the 'push-to-pass' that Indycar has? It's simply the engine turned up to its maximum setting, it's not exactly black magic. I'm guessing you wouldn't describe 'push-to-pass' as wk in the same way though, for some reason?

You mean like the KERS that can be deployed in similar fashion to P2P? Right.

There's a massive difference between "overboost" and a mode that is designed to make the car much faster throughout the whole lap.

Yes, like KERS deployment too.

They are all just engine modes giving extra bhp. The Indycar does it via increased boost pressure, and the F1 car via a combination of boost and KERS deployment.

The Indycar driver could use his entire overboost allocation on one lap of the race if he so wished. At COTA each P2P could be used for up to 20 seconds at a time, with 200 seconds available for the entire race. That’d easily cover a whole lap. If the rules allowed it to be used in qualifying as well it’d be turned on for the whole lap and would effectively be a ‘party mode’.

F1 drivers can select the ‘ultimate performance’ modes for very limited periods of the race when attacking or defending, but also have the option to leave the highest setting selected for the entire qualifying lap. There’s nothing really special about party mode, it’s just the engine being run to its absolute limits at the expense of reliability. All of the engines have various modes, some just go a bit higher than others.

That is the reason why I disagreed with your assertion that one is ‘mumbo jumbo’ and ‘wk’, (meaning the laptime isn’t a valid comparison), as from a technical standpoint that just simply didn’t make sense to me. It’s purely the engine running in its highest possible state of tune.

Again talking about being "defensive", oh the irony. You seem to be very emotionally invested in this situation.

[Paul_M3]

Bullitt Five-Oh said:

Again talking about being "defensive", oh the irony. You seem to be very emotionally invested in this situation.

I don’t think you understand the difference between being ‘defensive / emotionally invested’ and simply ‘responding to another persons comments on a discussion forum using unbiased factual statements’

[Bullitt Five-Oh]

Paul_M3 said:

Bullitt Five-Oh said:

Again talking about being "defensive", oh the irony. You seem to be very emotionally invested in this situation.

I don’t think you understand the difference between being ‘defensive / emotionally invested’ and simply ‘responding to another persons comments on a discussion forum using unbiased factual statements’

You can be either or both at the same time, there is no correlation. Let this marinate.