Why switch DSC/ESP off on public roads?
Discussion
Just wondering what people's opinions are on why some people's DSC/ESP is switched off on public roads?
My car has DSC, and generally it just sits there minding it's own business. On a drive to work it would never cross my mind to switch it off.
However, on my way home today in the E39 I came round a very familiar but tight corner in the wet, at a speed lower than I've done it before when I felt the back end start to unexpectedly breakaway. The road is not wide so there's very little room to recover without hitting the oncoming traffic.
Before I had even really begun to turn the wheel to try and recover it I felt the big invisible hand of god swoop in, the back end just stopped swinging out and moved back to the left where it belonged, as it happened I could just make out the noise of one of the brakes independently grabbing at the wheel. I use the "big invisible hand" to describe it as that is exactly what it felt like.
I also saw the yellow triangle flicker as a stern reminder that were it not for the big invisible hand I would either:-
To clarify, I'm not talking about intrusive and useless Traction Control Systems like fitted to older Fords etc. I'm talking about proper bona fide Stablility Control systems which can do what mine did today with yaw sensors etc.
Come on, any ideas? The only ones I can come up with are that it's either some sort of ego thing, or that people are driving so hard and actually want to get the back end out on a public road, apart from that I couldn't think of any?
My car has DSC, and generally it just sits there minding it's own business. On a drive to work it would never cross my mind to switch it off.
However, on my way home today in the E39 I came round a very familiar but tight corner in the wet, at a speed lower than I've done it before when I felt the back end start to unexpectedly breakaway. The road is not wide so there's very little room to recover without hitting the oncoming traffic.
Before I had even really begun to turn the wheel to try and recover it I felt the big invisible hand of god swoop in, the back end just stopped swinging out and moved back to the left where it belonged, as it happened I could just make out the noise of one of the brakes independently grabbing at the wheel. I use the "big invisible hand" to describe it as that is exactly what it felt like.
I also saw the yellow triangle flicker as a stern reminder that were it not for the big invisible hand I would either:-
- Have snaked all over the road and looked a tit as I recovered it
- Have slid into oncoming traffic
- Have hit a barrier or kerb and knackered my car
To clarify, I'm not talking about intrusive and useless Traction Control Systems like fitted to older Fords etc. I'm talking about proper bona fide Stablility Control systems which can do what mine did today with yaw sensors etc.
Come on, any ideas? The only ones I can come up with are that it's either some sort of ego thing, or that people are driving so hard and actually want to get the back end out on a public road, apart from that I couldn't think of any?
It does seem rather pointless on a lot of low powered cars. Coupled with the fact that many of the ESP/DSC/etc systems are apparently overly intrusive I would turn it off if I had it. That's assuming the car is just used for fun though. If it was just an everyday car for work, etc, then I don't see the point in turning it off.
FreeLitres said:
I dont think I have ever turned my on and I am still alive!
(TVR by the way
)
Ha ha, yeah I know, I lived perfectly well without it before too, and my rear end has let go before, I just did my best to recover it (or just span around lol). But today the system in my E39 recovered the situation with far less drama than I could ever manage myself, so I just couldn't comprehend deliberately switching it off. (TVR by the way
)
John D. said:
Didn't say it was morally right. Think of the children etc.
One of the only two (!) cars I've crashed had all its stability controls switched fully on at the time. I'm that good.
I didn't pass judgement either way about the rights or wrongs of deliberately letting it step out, that's for another thread One of the only two (!) cars I've crashed had all its stability controls switched fully on at the time. I'm that good.
As the manual in my Z4 states, DSC cannot defy the laws of physics, if you try hard enough you will crash
Blue Oval84 said:
And a question for John, is it only fun on RWD cars?
On FWD cars by the time you need DSC it really is going to recover something that isn't possible without it IMO.
I always find it much easier to get the back end slidey in my car with it off, even if it was only a handbrake turn, it goes much easier with it off.On FWD cars by the time you need DSC it really is going to recover something that isn't possible without it IMO.
Blue Oval84 said:
John D. said:
Didn't say it was morally right. Think of the children etc.
One of the only two (!) cars I've crashed had all its stability controls switched fully on at the time. I'm that good.
I didn't pass judgement either way about the rights or wrongs of deliberately letting it step out, that's for another thread One of the only two (!) cars I've crashed had all its stability controls switched fully on at the time. I'm that good.
As the manual in my Z4 states, DSC cannot defy the laws of physics, if you try hard enough you will crash
My point is that some people enjoy the sensation of sliding a car. They find it fun and want to do it. Its no more complicated than that.
John D. said:
You say its an ego thing. I took that as implying it shouldn't be done anywhere but it in a 'safe' environment such as a race track.
My point is that some people enjoy the sensation of sliding a car. They find it fun and want to do it. Its no more complicated than that.
Which is why I included my second category, for people that want the car to slide a little.My point is that some people enjoy the sensation of sliding a car. They find it fun and want to do it. Its no more complicated than that.
My first category for "Ego thing" is for people who aren't especially bothered about making the car slide but like to tell all and sundry that they don't need ESP and always switch it off...
What you said definitely slotted into the second category rather than the Ego one
EDIT - to clarify the ego thing, I'll give the example of someone I know who will switch it off to drive through congested streets where it is hard to get above 25-30mph, getting the car to slide is just not possible, but without fail, the ESP is switched off anyway.
Edited by Blue Oval84 on Sunday 12th June 17:26
Blue Oval84 said:
I just couldn't comprehend deliberately switching it off.
To be honest, I am always aware of not having any traction control and I definately don't floor it around corners. The thought that my car could suddenly twang me into a hedge is part of the excitement though!Depends on the car. On some (most) I couldn't care less whether it's on or off because it's not very interactive in the first place, on others it does get rather intrusive when accelerating out of a bend (or even on a straight), or when you'd like a bit of help from the rear when turning into a corner (which '90s French hatchbacks tend to subtly do at very sane speeds, no Driving God-ness here). All the better driving cars have some degree of adjustability in their balance far before the outer reaches of their grip envelope, which the more rigidly programmed stability controls in mainstream cars at least tend to kill stone dead.
Turned my DSC off today to see if the Quattro would get unstuck in the pouring rain. Gave it the beans through a left-right uphill section and quickly discovered how much the DSC does; the car understeered toward the curb, then as I backed off the rear swung out toward the curb aswell.
Turned it back on after that
Turned it back on after that
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