PH Blog: Audi calls a truce
Does the new RS4 herald the end of the German power war? Harris reckons it might
Anyways, there we were thinking it might be canned when Audi sends everyone some photos and a spec sheet of a buxom looking small estate car called the RS4. On its own, this would be of little significance, but I have a feeling in my waters that the new, third-generation RS4 has unwittingly signalled the end of an era that we currently call the 'power war'.
In years to come, when people try and identify the moment car manufacturers were cured of the impulse to wave their genitals at each other, it might be Wednesday 15 February 2012 - the day of the embargo for all RS4 information.
I will now attempt to support this theory.
Audi has been at the forefront of the power race for over a decade now. Unable to match BMW M or even Mercedes AMG at the end of the 90s, it took the decision to enlist the help of Cosworth and boost its 2.7-litre bi-turbo V6 to 380bhp. I remember the B5 RS4 launch in Munich: we were told the cars had 155mph limiters and they all sailed into the 170s. Audi engineers used the word 'tolerance' and then sniggered.
The original B5 RS4 became a cult car because it was so fast, usable and tweakable. Owners didn't care that people like me crapped on about steering feel, it would take the kids and the dog and, after MTM had messed with it, cruise at 180mph to Geneva.
BMW never felt the need to respond to the RS4. Mercedes gave us the C32 AMG, which had nothing like the firepower on paper but was so much more violent than the claimed 349hp that the V8 362hp C55 which followed never felt quite as quick. But Audi remained the boss for power.
Further supported by the release of the first RS6 - complete mit 450hp twin-turbo V8, which pre-dated the 479hp E55 AMG Kompressor. Which didn't have anything less than 500hp according the German TuV organization. And so it went on.
Now look, I'm not going to list the increases and swings in power between ze Germans, or even what was going on in the US, but it was quite clear that Audi always felt it necessary to have the biggest trouser bulge. BMW had a 500hp M5, Audi produced a 580hp RS6. Whatever Audi's cars lacked in dynamic terms, they recouped through knuckle-size.
And now we have a 450hp RS4. No turbochargers, 30bhp more, and the same torque as the B7 RS4 - which was launched back in 2006. That last fact is eye-opening.The new RS4 is unlikely to weigh less than the B7 because it has a heavy dual-clutch gearbox and is physically bigger, so it is unlikely to feel any quicker than the car it replaces. Which is now seven years old.
Is this progress? I don't know, in fact I'm struggling to know how to respond to the specification of the new RS4. As someone who has whinged in and on several magazines/blogs/websites about the evils of ever-increasing outputs that help conceal the crazy mass of these vehicles, I now find myself sitting looking at the vitals of a car which, according to my mantra, should be applauded for detaching itself from the cycle-of-evil-horsepower and I feel what seasoned interwebbers refer to as 'meh'. 450hp: that all you got Audi? World class hypocrisy, I know.
Pathetic, isn't it? Perhaps it's the mechanical similarity to the B7 version that means the new car doesn't capture the imagination like the last two versions, maybe we expected something more - I don't know. Either way, the guts are disappointed.
But this is surely a milestone in one of two ways. The great power-aggressors of Ingolstadt have stood firm and called-away their heavy artillery. If this can be viewed as an end to hostilities in Germany, then that's probably a good thing because it will force them to compete for more sensible honours. Kerb weight would be a good place to begin.
Equally, this might just be a statement of intent from Quattro GmbH. It feels the RS brand is now established enough to no longer need a power figure that steals glances on the newsstand and on Google. If so, it's a brave decision at a time when Mercedes will sell you a C63 estate with 487hp and so much more torque that it is almost in different class to the RS4.
I just have this lingering feeling that the RS4 marks a tipping point in the evolution of the very fast car. When a brand that has defined itself by out-thrusting its rivals settles back and says 'enough', I think we can call that a significant event.
Next week, Audi will announce an 860hp RS6, and I will never utter another word on this subject.
Not saying Harris is wrong but they need to leave some headroom for the RS6 which is't going to top 600bhp I don't think.
Whatever the reasoning, there was no way the power war was going to continue, for Pete's sake we have hot hatches now with 350 galloping nags as standard.
"Autoexpress" (I know) states, the next RS6 will have a 550bhp version of the new S6 Turbo V8. If so, that is obviously less than the C6 RS6 (but probably bags more torque)and would be a major revelation in having a newer model performance version with less power!!!
Mind you, the B8 S4 has less power than the previous B7 S4, yet, it's still quicker. So it is possible obviously.
As Chris says though, weight saving has to be the next technological advance surely.
I also suspect this is power war over!
Remember the crazy figures of 200bhp for the Sierra Cosworth or the mental 360bhp of the Lotus Carlton which was deemed a heath risk because it was 'so' fast.
I think manufacturers will be a bit more cautious with the higher end models due to green issues, but there will always be the special car that you want above all others, mainly based on facts and figures which will have large horses involved.
Can you imagine a world where AMG, M & RS divisions complete for the lowest CO2 emmissions?
I think Audi want to be grown up with the new A4RS, but will probably change their minds when they don't sell very well, mainly due to the fact the it has not distinguished itself from the previous model.
Audi quits power race - - Source: Autocar
Audi’s S and RS ranges will no longer offer more power than the equivalent models from AMG or BMW M-Power. Stephan Reil, the General Manager of Development at Quattro Gmbh, the company responsible for Audi’s RS models, claimed that, ‘continuing to increase the power outputs is not the way forward. With more power the car normally gets heavier and then you need more power again.’
Taking a sideswipe at AMG, which recently launched the 603bhp S65 AMG, Reil said ‘with a rear-wheel-drive car, all you succeed in doing is lighting up the yellow traction control sign. Our drivetrain allows us to transfer the power to the road.’
Reil said the Quattro Gmbh brand will develop cars that combined high power outputs with ‘outstanding driving dynamics and road handling.’ Audi is planning to adopt a new naming structure (SQ3 to SW8) for its sporting models.
There is so much more to the whole driving experience than outright poweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer.
What is more important is the way the power is delivered - take the M5 V10 for example - is there really any difference between the 400hp or 500hp modes? Not in my experience.To take advantage of the latter you need to be revving the nuts off it on a track.
Seems to me the ideal, in whatever class of road vehicle you care to mention, AWD or RWD,is around 400hp with 400ft/lbs or so of torque across a broad rev range,combined with good brakes and decent steering.
Anything more is surplus to requirements on a public road in the real world.
I think the manufacturers should concentrate on making their performance models as nice to drive in as many situations as possible.
The next m3 will be about the same 450bhp but will almost certainly be a turbocharged straight 6. But I suspect it'll be slightly lighter than the outgoing m3 ad the normal 3er is lighter plus the engine will be lighter.
Audi quits power race - - Source: Autocar
Audi’s S and RS ranges will no longer offer more power than the equivalent models from AMG or BMW M-Power. Stephan Reil, the General Manager of Development at Quattro Gmbh, the company responsible for Audi’s RS models, claimed that, ‘continuing to increase the power outputs is not the way forward. With more power the car normally gets heavier and then you need more power again.’
Taking a sideswipe at AMG, which recently launched the 603bhp S65 AMG, Reil said ‘with a rear-wheel-drive car, all you succeed in doing is lighting up the yellow traction control sign. Our drivetrain allows us to transfer the power to the road.’
Reil said the Quattro Gmbh brand will develop cars that combined high power outputs with ‘outstanding driving dynamics and road handling.’ Audi is planning to adopt a new naming structure (SQ3 to SW8) for its sporting models.
No mention there though of "how" their going to attain ‘outstanding driving dynamics and road handling.’!!!
The Audi website mentions their Ultra technology of weight saving, but, outside the Aluminium A8 / R8 (and Alu some wings on some models) which are not that light, I fail to see where their actually going with this.
No mention there though of "how" THEY ARE going to attain ‘outstanding driving dynamics and road handling.’!!!
The Audi website mentions their Ultra technology of weight saving, but, outside the Aluminium A8 / R8 (and Alu some wings on some models) which are not that light, I fail to see where THEY ARE actually going with this.
I actually own a '09 C63 Saloon, its a fantastic car, but if you try and use full throttle on an even slightly greasy or bumpy road you will firmly have your wrist slapped by the TC! With the RS4's AWD, I would be left for dead trying to keep up with a face full of flashing amber TC lights!
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