Age for forgiveness: PH Blog
So why are powerslides in old cars acceptable but yobbish in new stuff? Harris deliberates
Age appears to have the same effect in the world of the motor car. Some of the outcomes are plain obvious: drive a 1940s saloon car on an A-road and surrounding traffic tends not to worry too much about being held-up. Try the same in a 2010 Audi A4 and you'll receive some choice hand gestures. Society and respect for fellow humans may be in a parlous state, but on the whole people are respectful and deferential to the elderly. And rightly so.
Which brings me to the Goodwood Revival, surely the best known expression of old car affection, and a general celebration of The Past. Even if you find notions of Britain being a better place 60 years ago slightly nauseous, it's impossible to not want to live in the England that Lord March and his team presents to you at the Revival. People smile, they put litter in bins, they are kind to each other.
And all the while there are racing cars being hammered to valve-bounce on the motor circuit - just like they were in period. Pretty much everything is driven sideways, because that's the only way you can make these old sheds negotiate a corner. Often they are driven very sideways, because you quickly learn that you don't lose much lap time, and the crowd loves the spectacle.
And, finally, I've reached the point I want to make. Why is some chap on the lock-stops through Woodcote in a Mk1 Jag considered the very essence of Goodwood and 'real' driving yet posting a video of the latest M3 doing the same seen as childish, unrealistic and puerile?
Strange isn't it? I'm often criticised for sliding cars in videos, but don't really take any notice of the carping - for me the ideal situation is footage and explanations of a car's behavior driven straight and slidey, so that's what I do. But cars tend to look more exciting with some slip, so that's what we deliver.
However there appears to be some datum point, a specific age at which a car's sideways-ness goes from being cool and a reflection of 'the way things were' to being plain yobbish. I wonder what that date is? Sometime in the late 60s? Maybe later? Perhaps it actually reflects the time when racing cars reliance on mechanical grip changed to aerodynamic grip, and the driving style altered accordingly. Which in F1 and sportscars was probably the mid-70s, but in tin-tops as recently as the late 80s.
There's another corollary of age that fascinates me - the effect of mileage on values. Another invisible line seems to exist here - how else can you explain that a Ferrari Daytona's value seems to have absolutely nothing to do with how many miles it has covered, and yet a very leggy 550 Maranello in absolutely mint condition is worth way less than a barely used garage queen?
The cut-off appears to be somewhere in the mid-70s. Punters looking for a mint early Countach don't ask 'how many owners, what's the mileage?'. Likewise, does a 250 GTO that's showing a bit of leg get hammered in Glass's Guide? I'm being silly now, sorry, but you get my point.
But I find it really fascinating that an F40's value is still mileage dependent, when a 2.7RS's isn't. Or maybe that's because Porsche's have the cheeky advantage of being able to keep original engine cases and having the barrels replaced, thereby satisfying that most sickly of market requirements - matching numbers.
And that's where this ramble ends. I need answers please. In what age of car does dignified sliding become plain hooliganism - and is that as much a judgement on the angle of the slide (less being more acceptable) and the amount of tyre smoke?
And when does mileage cease to be a factor in the valuation of a classic car?
Over to you.
[Goodwood and Capri pics: LAT]
The car market is broken. If an idiot (me) can buy a car from a Official Porsche Centre in France, drive it home and sell 5 days later at a profit, equalling an average years salary, somethings wrong
A very low mileage car can be worth $200,000 more than one that's been used. Compare these two both sold in Monterey the 5000 mile car is at a big premium over the 20000 mile one.
http://rickcole.com/1973-ferrari-365-gtb4/
http://rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1067574
The old cars in question are engaged in racing - pushing to the limit in an attempt to beat the other guy (or girl) which, by nature of their age / design / technical limitations, involves a certain amount of sliding. We all love that.
You then talk about a modern car, driven in isolation on an (apparently) empty race track and provoked beyond "normal" limits - behaviour which in no way reflects what the car will be doing in the real world for 99.9% of its existence, in most cases.
I suspect that the modern car, race prepared and on track with a quantity of similarly prepared contemporaries driven to (and beyond) its limits, would attract no derision whatsoever.
Horses for courses.
And, finally, I've reached the point I want to make. Why is some chap on the lock-stops through Woodcote in a Mk1 Jag considered the very essence of Goodwood and 'real' driving yet posting a video of the latest M3 doing the same seen as childish, unrealistic and puerile?
'Cause that's in the past, when things were "real" and "better".
Yet posting a video of the latest M3 doing the same seen as childish, unrealistic and puerile?
'Cause that's...
A. In the present, where we should be mature and know better/
B. More importantly, it's so beyond how most observers can drive that the only comforting response is to criticise.
The old cars in question are engaged in racing - pushing to the limit in an attempt to beat the other guy (or girl) which, by nature of their age / design / technical limitations, involves a certain amount of sliding. We all love that.
You then talk about a modern car, driven in isolation on an (apparently) empty race track and provoked beyond "normal" limits - behaviour which in no way reflects what the car will be doing in the real world for 99.9% of its existence, in most cases.
(Also it's probably different people complaining/complimenting.)
I personally watch your films for entertainment value, not buyer advice. So if you weren't sliding around, I wouldn't bother, because we kind of knew what the new M3 would be like before it got released.
P.S. A genuinely fast lap on an empty track is equally pointless, except it looks kind of boring.
I don't think I have more respect for anyone in the industry. I'll celebrate it if they do the entire race in reverse, as long as they're pushing old metal worth more than my house for our enjoyment.
I think the /DRIVE critics are (A) youtube nerds who have nothing better to do with their lives other than complain about EVERYTHING, and (B) Have gotten used to you drifting in every video, so it's something to talk about. If they really didn't like the videos, they'd stop watching.
How do you remember your heroes driving? Whenever I picture Fangio, or anyone from that era actually, it's in frozen in black and white, mid momentum oversteer, arms like hams holding opposite lock. Senna I remember charging a rainy donnington or flat at Monaco. Aero robbed the drift of its top-flight racing nobility, but obviously none of its joy.
And as to auction, well mileage is one of many factors, as Chris knows better than I, when the others outweigh it QED - although each model under consideration will be for different reasons.
a) less than in your videos
b) are a result of pushing the car to achieve lap time rather than intentionally induced for the camera. It seems to me that the classic cars racing are entering and maintaining speed in the bends and slip develops from the driver applying throttle to the point where traction is breached and holding it around that point to maximise speed, where as in your videos, you enter the bends at a relatively slow speed and then intentionally create a lurid slide that is achieved far in advance of the apex - more in common to drifting (the sport) than track driving
Personally, I really enjoy your videos and the odd intentional full on drift in each video is entertaining, but would I find watching a car pushing the limits and the slides that naturally result from that more enjoyable to watch.
The age of the car is irrelevant to me - watching today's F1 in the wet when they are sliding about, is just as enjoyable as watching the (relatively) similar car attitude achieved in the dry from the 70s/80s F1
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