Air suspension and handling
Discussion
Have seen quite a few cars lately having this mod done. Is air suspension now any better than a good coilover setup in regards to handling?
I'm a little old school in thinking it wouldn't be a patch on handling compared to a good damper/spring setup. Have things moved on much here or am I right with my thoughts?
Looks cool though.
I'm a little old school in thinking it wouldn't be a patch on handling compared to a good damper/spring setup. Have things moved on much here or am I right with my thoughts?
Looks cool though.
TotalControl said:
Have seen quite a few cars lately having this mod done. Is air suspension now any better than a good coilover setup in regards to handling?
I'm a little old school in thinking it wouldn't be a patch on handling compared to a good damper/spring setup. Have things moved on much here or am I right with my thoughts?
Looks cool though.
I agree with you about good damper/spring setup, I always thought air suspension was more of a way to get your car as low as possible and then make it look broke when parked up. I am thinking about after market stuff mainly though, manufacturer fitted kit will probably be fitted for comfort, or for rising ride height in your Ranger Rover when going off roadI'm a little old school in thinking it wouldn't be a patch on handling compared to a good damper/spring setup. Have things moved on much here or am I right with my thoughts?
Looks cool though.
Edited by Mr-captain on Monday 20th February 11:39
kambites said:
I think "air suspension" covers a lot of different designs with very different characteristics.
Indeed. There's the kind of air suspension fitted to big Mercs, Range Rovers, etc. (ideal for improved ride comfort), and the "pneumatic air ride" type of setup, usually attributed to the modifying scene.I think there's always going to be compromises; an air-spring is always going to be affected more by things like temperature variations than a steel spring and isn't fundamentally as linear in response which will make it harder to match damping to spring rates accurately. Air-sprung setups will also have more unsprung weight associated with them than a simple spring on the same vehicle.
I think they can easily be "good enough" for a mainstream car, but we're not going to see them on F1 cars any time soon.
I think they can easily be "good enough" for a mainstream car, but we're not going to see them on F1 cars any time soon.
Decky_Q said:
then realised it handled like it was on water.
Basically this. A lot of people that have just spent a fortune on a cheap air suspension will tell you how great it is, and post a link to a accuair mini on a track day from 3 years ago. However:Things that use coilovers:
- race cars (actual ones, not scene kiddie)
- Most formula cars
Things that use air:
- buses
- lorries
- luxo barges
- chav'd up diesel Golf's.
Good for comfort, ste for handling.
KarlMac said:
Basically this. A lot of people that have just spent a fortune on a cheap air suspension will tell you how great it is, and post a link to a accuair mini on a track day from 3 years ago. However:
Things that use coilovers:
- race cars (actual ones, not scene kiddie)
- Most formula cars
Things that use air:
- buses
- lorries
- luxo barges
- chav'd up diesel Golf's.
Good for comfort, ste for handling.
This, all of the cars I can think of which have air suspension (I admit it's not many ) have it for comfort or convenience, rather than handling. Things that use coilovers:
- race cars (actual ones, not scene kiddie)
- Most formula cars
Things that use air:
- buses
- lorries
- luxo barges
- chav'd up diesel Golf's.
Good for comfort, ste for handling.
My 5 series estate has it at the back for the self leveling suspension. This works really well when travelling back from Wickes, however as I understand it the saloon (coils all around) handles better.
just restored the air suspension on my range rover classic - perfect for it, works well on the bumpy roads locally - all that coils would do would be add discomfort without really improving the handling of a jacked up heavy brick...
the z3 though - no interest in having it on air, works really well with the current setup, so I restored that suspension by replacing with new versions of the oem - does its job...
horse for courses...
the z3 though - no interest in having it on air, works really well with the current setup, so I restored that suspension by replacing with new versions of the oem - does its job...
horse for courses...
I've just had my cayman s fitted with air suspension. And first impressions are their are minimal improvements. Slightly better ride quality. I've not thrown it into any corners at speed as that's just not what I've got the car for.
But my day to day driving I've noticed no different. If I didn't know it was their, I'd not think anything was amiss or different to how a cayman would act/handle
My kit is made by hp drivetech which uses bilstein shocks.
You'll get the people pipe in who never been in an actual air'd car and state this that and that. But the fact is, if my experiences are anything to go by. You'd not know it was their.
Cheap kits id imagine compromise things and instillation will go a long way. But if done right they're fantasic.
And so convenient. For multi stories, speed bumps and getting on ridiculous shell forcourts that seem to be around my area.
Please excuse any grammatical errors. On iPhone.
But my day to day driving I've noticed no different. If I didn't know it was their, I'd not think anything was amiss or different to how a cayman would act/handle
My kit is made by hp drivetech which uses bilstein shocks.
You'll get the people pipe in who never been in an actual air'd car and state this that and that. But the fact is, if my experiences are anything to go by. You'd not know it was their.
Cheap kits id imagine compromise things and instillation will go a long way. But if done right they're fantasic.
And so convenient. For multi stories, speed bumps and getting on ridiculous shell forcourts that seem to be around my area.
Please excuse any grammatical errors. On iPhone.
J4CKO said:
My CLS has Airmatic, it suits the car and you can change it from floaty to quite firm, with something inbetween, not driven one on steel springs but apart from the potential cost it is meant to be better in every respect.
I would assume that the 'floaty to firm' is a result of adjustable shocks. Whilst air can lower and raise the suspension, I didn't know that spring rates could be adjusted for handling/performance/comfort - or is there some new fangled piece of tech that I don't know about. (I appreciate ride height levelling will change the effective spring rate) I had air suspension on my Ranger rover - it failed the day after I bought it. I also had it at the back a discovery, that took several weeks to fail...
Edited by OverSteery on Monday 20th February 13:30
OverSteery said:
I would assume that the 'floaty to firm' is a result of adjustable shocks. Whilst air can lower and raise the suspension, I didn't know that spring rates could be adjusted - or it there some new fangled piece of tech that I don't know about.
If the car is air-sprung, I think changing the pressure (so changing the ride height or using the suspension to maintain the ride height at different loads) will change the effective spring rate. kambites said:
OverSteery said:
I would assume that the 'floaty to firm' is a result of adjustable shocks. Whilst air can lower and raise the suspension, I didn't know that spring rates could be adjusted - or it there some new fangled piece of tech that I don't know about.
If the car is air-sprung, I think changing the pressure (so changing the ride height or using the suspension to maintain the ride height at different loads) will change the effective spring rate. Saxmaster said:
I've just had my cayman s fitted with air suspension. And first impressions are their are minimal improvements. Slightly better ride quality. I've not thrown it into any corners at speed as that's just not what I've got the car for.
But my day to day driving I've noticed no different. If I didn't know it was their, I'd not think anything was amiss or different to how a cayman would act/handle
My kit is made by hp drivetech which uses bilstein shocks.
You'll get the people pipe in who never been in an actual air'd car and state this that and that. But the fact is, if my experiences are anything to go by. You'd not know it was their.
Cheap kits id imagine compromise things and instillation will go a long way. But if done right they're fantasic.
And so convenient. For multi stories, speed bumps and getting on ridiculous shell forcourts that seem to be around my area.
Please excuse any grammatical errors. On iPhone.
Hang on, You bought a cayman and you don't want to corner at speed? But my day to day driving I've noticed no different. If I didn't know it was their, I'd not think anything was amiss or different to how a cayman would act/handle
My kit is made by hp drivetech which uses bilstein shocks.
You'll get the people pipe in who never been in an actual air'd car and state this that and that. But the fact is, if my experiences are anything to go by. You'd not know it was their.
Cheap kits id imagine compromise things and instillation will go a long way. But if done right they're fantasic.
And so convenient. For multi stories, speed bumps and getting on ridiculous shell forcourts that seem to be around my area.
Please excuse any grammatical errors. On iPhone.
TotalControl said:
Have seen quite a few cars lately having this mod done. Is air suspension now any better than a good coilover setup in regards to handling?
I'm a little old school in thinking it wouldn't be a patch on handling compared to a good damper/spring setup. Have things moved on much here or am I right with my thoughts?
Looks cool though.
I'm guessing you're referring to this kind of air suspension? I'm a little old school in thinking it wouldn't be a patch on handling compared to a good damper/spring setup. Have things moved on much here or am I right with my thoughts?
Looks cool though.
Not a fan personally. Would be cheaper to fill the boot with concrete.
KarlMac said:
Basically this. A lot of people that have just spent a fortune on a cheap air suspension will tell you how great it is, and post a link to a accuair mini on a track day from 3 years ago. However:
Things that use coilovers:
- race cars (actual ones, not scene kiddie)
- Most formula cars
Things that use air:
- buses
- lorries
- luxo barges
- chav'd up diesel Golf's.
Good for comfort, ste for handling.
It is possible for air ride to be quite good, Things that use coilovers:
- race cars (actual ones, not scene kiddie)
- Most formula cars
Things that use air:
- buses
- lorries
- luxo barges
- chav'd up diesel Golf's.
Good for comfort, ste for handling.
US Time Attack winning Impreza - http://www.speedhunters.com/2016/12/life-on-air-co...
There was a car in the Japanese D1 series than ran air ride aswell but I can't remember what it was.
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