Anyone feel sorry for McLaren? What could they do different?

[John D.]

djt100 said:

New McLaren is the modern equal to the Honda NSX.

I don't think it is really. Far more prestige attached to it not being a Honda, rightly or wrongly.

[scampbird]

Fittster said:

There's nothing subjective about the sales figures of the NSX (or the last McLaren)

Had nothing to do with whether you personally think it dull or not, and everything to do with it being a Honda. Sadly, Europeans especially, are badge obsessed snobs.

[Harry Flashman]

scampbird said:

Had nothing to do with whether you personally think it dull or not, and everything to do with it being a Honda. Sadly, Europeans especially, are badge obsessed snobs.

I think it had as much to having an interior like an Accord's and a V6. Despite the awesome styling, no-one really thought it was special enough.

Shame, as that VTEC V6 at revs sounded fantastic. Interior was horribly dull, though.

[tercelgold]

The 458 makes sense to the head, it looks better right now, sounds better, has soul and gets a tenth of a second off the lap time
on a track day.

But the MP4-12C speaks to the heart which is a smooth ride and it looks a bit like a £30K sports car from Japan so you can use it every day.

[rhinochopig]

Harry Flashman said:

scampbird said:

Had nothing to do with whether you personally think it dull or not, and everything to do with it being a Honda. Sadly, Europeans especially, are badge obsessed snobs.

I think it had as much to having an interior like an Accord's and a V6. Despite the awesome styling, no-one really thought it was special enough.

Shame, as that VTEC V6 at revs sounded fantastic. Interior was horribly dull, though.

I think there is more to it than that. Personally I think its downfall was the styling being too safe - in era from whence it came a lot of Japanese design was driven by focus groups and committee rather than single stylists/designers. I can remember a few examples of products being designed by focus groups being asked what specific design elements they liked and then all these elements being combined into a product.

If you compare it to a similar generation Porsche the interior is no worse, both have a six pot and the NSX, it could be argued, handles better. Power to weight was also similar. Yet it still didn't sell. To me that leaves how it looks.

[AndrewW-G]

rhinochopig said:

If you compare it to a similar generation Porsche the interior is no worse.

The NSX interior was years ahead of the equivalent 964/993, comfortable, well laid out and generally a nice place to be. . . . far better than the period Ferraris

[E30M3SE]

stephen300o said:

Who takes the Topgear times seriously?

McLaren obviously do.



(Taken from Autoblog)

[John D.]

[thinfourth2]

stephen300o said:

Who takes the Topgear times seriously?

People dumb enough to belive that a stopwatch dictates how fun a car is

[Alfanatic]

busta said:

'Soul' is a bit of a grey area anyway. How do you define it? Can you engineer it? Is it the same for everyone? I doubt it. Is soul being a bit unpredictable, or is it the sensation that the car reads your mind? Both could be the right answer.

I apologise for quoting you somewhat out of context, but I do like that specific train of thought. I'd add that soul / character / whatever could also be the sensation that the driver is reading the car's mind.... which would be a product of feedback.

It's anything that allows the driver to relate to the car in any way as a living thing, or as an individual. If a car is giving a lot of feedback from the road conditions and from the pedals, particularly when not going flat out, the car can feel like it's built to enjoy the drive. It can come across as playful. If it is competent but giving no feedback, it's a machine doing a job. Detached and unapproachable.

Not everyone's idea of a good time, but it's also not the "character = unreliability" bullst that's propping up far too often on a website that one would expect to have quite a few petrolheads.

With the possible exception of the MGB, Cars renowned for their character are enjoyed for the times when they don't break down, not the times they do. A boring car can be unreliable too, but it rarely is, because the limited budget was spent making it reliable instead of fun.

The McLaren's problem in reviews does seem to be the same one the NSX had in the early press... testers climb out thinking that yes, it's faster, it's easier to drive, it's more comfortable, quieter, better built, etc etc, but it's supposed to be a sportscar, and that 348 / 458 is just more fun to drive!

A more extreme way of putting it: Is driving an MX5 on a quiet winding country road more or less enjoyable than driving, say, a 458 around the Nurburgring on GT5?

[m3jappa]

For those who say they are bland have they actually seen one in the flesh?

I know that the couple of times i have seen them i have seen them from a mile off. The styling will age very well, whereas the 458 looks very modern, but we all know what modern things look like after a few years. That said i think the 458 looks better in the flesh than photos too.

[sleep envy]

Harry Flashman said:

Frik said:

Fittster said:

It's not as if dull but competent sportscars have a great economic track record. You can start a thread on here about the NSX. People will say how great it is but no one actually bought them.

Yeah, Porsche gave up pretty quickly with that 911 Turbo too, didn't they?

But only the more recent ones are dull. 964 and 993 Turbos were a hoot. The 1980's one was on Athena posters. Porsche's dull 911 is just because they've worked out that people who want fun will buy into the GT badge...

Some may even argue that the 993 turbo was, to all intents and purposes, a pretty dull drive unless Noah was looking at the sky whilst fondling his chisels.

[Plotloss]

sleep envy said:

Some may even argue that the 993 turbo was, to all intents and purposes, a pretty dull drive unless Noah was looking at the sky whilst fondling his chisels.

You might argue it.

Just you.

And perhaps some people in ironed polo shirts and chinos

[sleep envy]

Plotloss said:

You might argue it.

Just you.

And perhaps some people in ironed polo shirts and chinos

depends, are they the ones who wear timberland deck shoes?

tbf, I you enjoy doing silly speeds without having to worry too much about inputs then they're a fine car

[LHD]

Plotloss said:

sleep envy said:

Some may even argue that the 993 turbo was, to all intents and purposes, a pretty dull drive unless Noah was looking at the sky whilst fondling his chisels.

You might argue it.

Just you.

And perhaps some people in ironed polo shirts and chinos

Good hit.

[sleep envy]

Don't make me post the photo...

[P9UNK]

For me it is rather ridiculous that a car that has humbled so many is seen as disappointing, I am sure this could have been leveled at the Nissan GTR or many 'so called' super cars which don't invlove the driver so much. I think the reviews will be different outside of the UK and I am reminded of my time in the US and the scorn heaped on the "cartoonish" Camaro and the other outdated 'new muscle cars'...which I loved and thought looked amazing and received far more positive reviews here. An odd phenomenon but I really don't go with the too clinical stuff, they go to McLaren HQ and scorn what is probably the best car facility in the world (McLaren had the lowest rate of recalls on it's Mercedes etc in the industry).
Side by side the 428 looks better from the back but awful from the front, the grill is heavy and the McLaren looked far better, this wouldn't just be to me thinking this while some wont of course...so why do the critics feel they speak for everyone. Anyway anyone arguing the 428 is better have a tough argument and in that case the Elise is the best. Finally McLaren are right here right now and they will now set the standards.

[P9UNK]

shouldbworking said:

Swap the badges, paint it red.. I have a feeling the reviews would turn out differently.

Yes absolutely right and JC would have been in awe of the manufacturing facility and banging on about Turnip farmers and sheds in the UK and how we can't compete. A shame because the opportunity to celebrate something was lost.

[LuS1fer]

P9UNK said:

shouldbworking said:

Swap the badges, paint it red.. I have a feeling the reviews would turn out differently.

Yes absolutely right and JC would have been in awe of the manufacturing facility and banging on about Turnip farmers and sheds in the UK and how we can't compete. A shame because the opportunity to celebrate something was lost.

Can you two get me some of those drugs you're on?

[mike9009]

I think the problem with mclaren is the philosophy of function over form. From a drivers perspective this is great, but a motoring journo or even the general public (human beings) love the form or art of an object.

Maybe mclaren need to create a more postove brand identity pushing the function over form identity. However, 'people' will always desire form then function. From a sexist male pov, what would you prefer to bed if presnted with the following two options?
A) beautiful supermodel
B) dirty fourty something who goes like a train (alledgely!)

(Keep the answers for yourself)

I loved the idea of the three seats in the F1. Maybe brand identity like this would distinguish the mclaren from the crowd in terms of the form?

I might regret the above comparison, but deep down we all love the form of 'things' whether we like it or not....

Mike