RE: PH Blog: all you need
Discussion
Agree with the less is more philosophy - my Integra R is pretty perfect power/grip wise to have great fun on the road.
But "what is enough?" should not just be applied to power/speed but to feel and chassis ability as well. An Audi A6 I used to have had enough power but was sorely lacking any other ability which meant it was truly dreadful to drive. Whilst a 1.1 Pug 205 I had in my youth was truly brilliant
But "what is enough?" should not just be applied to power/speed but to feel and chassis ability as well. An Audi A6 I used to have had enough power but was sorely lacking any other ability which meant it was truly dreadful to drive. Whilst a 1.1 Pug 205 I had in my youth was truly brilliant
wackojacko said:
We want lift off oversteer videos of the Passat 
This.At one point, I owned a Mk1 Eunos, and my mate had an E39 M5. I maintain that in 99% of situations the Eunos was much more fun, pulling out onto a dual carriageway for example I could rev to the limter in first, second and third and still not be breaking the NSL. The M5 was a different story altogether, give it some beans in 2nd and you're breaking every speeding law in the land. Epic car, but in my opinion probably too fast to enjoy on Uk roads most of the time.
marmite monster said:
interesting comments about the e39 528. i do agree with what your getting at chris but i happen to own a e39 528i and my bother has a f10 520d company car we have had lots and lots of races and the 528i wins every time. from a standstill to 120 the 528i will pull about 2 car lengths ,3rd gear pull 528i wins again .
the 520 is twice as good on fuel though lol
im just sayin lol
0-120 and only two car lengths? This shows the real world potential of the modern diesel. The 528i will sound much sweeter of course the 520 is twice as good on fuel though lol
im just sayin lol
JMF894 said:
What mpg are you getting with this chap? At some point wifey's diesel Furby vRS is gonna need changing
Jimbo
I'm afraid I'm at the V8 end of my sentiments, with a C43, but my friend tells me he gets 38mpg on the commute (dual carriageway) and struggles to go under 30mpg no matter what... Then there's the tax...Jimbo
m44kts said:
My old Accord Type R felt just right, plenty of poke for keeping up with traffic on the motorway and the perfect amount of usable power for a twisty B road.
Agreed. I have one of these and every time I even think about selling it, I rule it out. It's cheap, loads of space, can be economical, bullet proof and I enjoy myself more wringing it's neck on a deserted B road than I ever do driving many more exotic & powerful cars. As Chris points out, in a different way, owning a 550HP super saloon / Supercar in Britain today is like visiting a strip club. Great to look at but ultimately a frustrating & expensive affair that will often result in you getting into trouble with 'The Law'. Good topic. My current car only has 100bhp/ton, but thanks to very short gearing, I can bounce it off the redline in the first four gears before getting into speeding-ticket territory on NSL roads. The frantic gear changes (and sitting very low in a 800kg car) make you feel like you're accelerating fast. 
My old 944S was only 141bhp/ton, but that also felt faster due to the short gearing and peaky engine.
My old 944S was only 141bhp/ton, but that also felt faster due to the short gearing and peaky engine.
I agree that my S1 Elise had the perfect power:weight ratio, but mostly that is because the sensation of acceleration and speed was enhanced by the driver sitting very low to the ground and being exposed to the elements (with or without roof). A driver sitting higher and isolated from the outside world in insulated comfort needs greater performance from a higher power:weight ratio in order to replicate those same sensations.
Also, although I accept that high performance need not be a requirement for a commuter/shopping car, there is no justification for inert steering, a poor gearchange and a bad chassis. However mundane his/her journey, nobody need be deprived of a rewarding, tactile drive. It is in this respect, more so than in its modest performance, that in my view the diesel Passat falls down.
Also, although I accept that high performance need not be a requirement for a commuter/shopping car, there is no justification for inert steering, a poor gearchange and a bad chassis. However mundane his/her journey, nobody need be deprived of a rewarding, tactile drive. It is in this respect, more so than in its modest performance, that in my view the diesel Passat falls down.
chris182 said:
He makes a fair point. I have 168bhp/ton and frankly that is more than enough for the road, it is still very easy to find yourself with big numbers on the speedo. Any more power would just be wasted.
The point has always been valid, and no more because CH has mentioned it. Cars I've had fun in:
Corrado VR6 was about 155bhp/ton, and I always thought it was about right for the road but a bit more at the top end would be nice.
New Megane 225 family bus is about 166bhp/ton, and feels about right (although not much steering feel and a characterless engine).
Dad's Mk5 Golf R32 - 164bhp/ton (as above, but what an engine noise)
DC2 Type-R (coming soon) - 164 bhp/ton.
Hmmm...
Corrado VR6 was about 155bhp/ton, and I always thought it was about right for the road but a bit more at the top end would be nice.
New Megane 225 family bus is about 166bhp/ton, and feels about right (although not much steering feel and a characterless engine).
Dad's Mk5 Golf R32 - 164bhp/ton (as above, but what an engine noise)
DC2 Type-R (coming soon) - 164 bhp/ton.
Hmmm...
Sound comments very relistic and honest.
Said it before MPG matters when your picking up the bill, a 1.9tdi VW is a top engine with lots of punch in the midrange. I'm making most of 52reg Golf estate chipped to aroung 150 and very swift especially between 1800rpm and 3000rpm = 55mpg and currently on 180k. Shame no matter what it'll never handle and rev like a petrol forget it! Still keep it serviced on quality oil and filters and it keeps running fine and will help mates move sofa's etc.
Would love RS4/330i but lifes expenses can't stretch that far, maybe Skoda Vrs TDI 170 next?! Plod likes them, they are vast and reasonably fast.
Said it before MPG matters when your picking up the bill, a 1.9tdi VW is a top engine with lots of punch in the midrange. I'm making most of 52reg Golf estate chipped to aroung 150 and very swift especially between 1800rpm and 3000rpm = 55mpg and currently on 180k. Shame no matter what it'll never handle and rev like a petrol forget it! Still keep it serviced on quality oil and filters and it keeps running fine and will help mates move sofa's etc.
Would love RS4/330i but lifes expenses can't stretch that far, maybe Skoda Vrs TDI 170 next?! Plod likes them, they are vast and reasonably fast.
Agree,I've owned two RS4's (B5 and B7) and they are the ultimate everyday roadcar and can be used on track. They can be appreciated for the slow Sunday drive and for the moments you talk about in the article when the biker comes alongside and you need to have a little fun.
For me the ultimate car is one that looks stealthy, is fun to drive, has plenty of power (like 400 horses) and is an adventure everytime you get behind the wheel. That pretty much screams Audi RS cars and that's why I'm looking at getting into an RS6 as soon as finances permit.
For me the ultimate car is one that looks stealthy, is fun to drive, has plenty of power (like 400 horses) and is an adventure everytime you get behind the wheel. That pretty much screams Audi RS cars and that's why I'm looking at getting into an RS6 as soon as finances permit.
Good thread. I don't think it's power that matters at all, its weight. You can have more fun in a go kart than you do in a Ferrari in alot of situations. On the road a light agile car always feels better than a heavy powerful one. IMO 99% of every day driving is dull. The roads are full and in a terrible condition, speed camera everywhere and petrol cost soaring. The 1% that is enjoyable is usualy enjoyable because of a brief nip in and out of traffic or a full throttle round a mini roundabout.... Or something else that sonds dull but in the right car can be great fun!
Bought the mrs a 1.0 matiz a year ago it does 50mpg will do more than motorway speed when needed and weighs 850kg.. A light weight car today is usually around 1200kg..... I've yet to fathom why?! Thrashing the matiz is a hoot. And it's all legal! Weight is the key not power!
Ps. Sorry mr. Harris but a the passatt IMO is dull. Vw's do their job very well, but when it's gets twisty your much better with a mondeo!
Bought the mrs a 1.0 matiz a year ago it does 50mpg will do more than motorway speed when needed and weighs 850kg.. A light weight car today is usually around 1200kg..... I've yet to fathom why?! Thrashing the matiz is a hoot. And it's all legal! Weight is the key not power!
Ps. Sorry mr. Harris but a the passatt IMO is dull. Vw's do their job very well, but when it's gets twisty your much better with a mondeo!
Great article, but sorry, the ideal motorway power is far more - something like 300hp/ton with decent torque. It's exactly what you need for 65-90, provided you have a speed warning alarm for over 100!
I do agree that for epic roads it is scary what you can achieve in a quick car for it to feel satisfying, which is why the BEC open top locost route is so much fun - even 60 feels quick in mine.
The passat in the family is actually a better car than my C6 Audi A6 TDI estate.
The way the low end torque is delivered and drivability of the VW 2.0 TDI engine is much better than the Audi's. Of course the Audi is the nicer place to be once up to speed, but the passat is a very under-rated car, which does a perfect job of lugging you and your mates to places in comfort reliably with the minimum of fuel spent.
I do agree that for epic roads it is scary what you can achieve in a quick car for it to feel satisfying, which is why the BEC open top locost route is so much fun - even 60 feels quick in mine.
The passat in the family is actually a better car than my C6 Audi A6 TDI estate.
The way the low end torque is delivered and drivability of the VW 2.0 TDI engine is much better than the Audi's. Of course the Audi is the nicer place to be once up to speed, but the passat is a very under-rated car, which does a perfect job of lugging you and your mates to places in comfort reliably with the minimum of fuel spent.
gmackay2 said:
sorry i've got to laugh about all this praise heaped on the B5/5.5 Passat's? i've had a couple of them both V6 Syncro's in auto and man, plus drove the 130tdi sport and also a remapped 130tdi sport.
lets cut to the chase here, the Passat is woefull car through corners, even Audi's Quattro system didn't exactly spice things up? the steering is dead, it's too light, and vague.
Ok so now we're on to perceived build quality! hmmm lets look at the Passat weaknesses:
leaks like sieve
eats suspension arms (8 arm design is bloody stupid)
PD TDI's either blow turbos or the NT75 valve qives up which leaves people thinking the turbo has gone
they all like oil and anyone says there's does't? i find hard to believe. especially on long life servicing.
the electrics aren't that great as they get older.
they're noisy, in terms of road noise, the word refined could never be associated with the B5/5.5 plat form
the head lights are like candles (even the £800 factory fit xenons aren't too great either) and if you are luucky enough to have xenons chances are one of the sensors mounted to the front and rear suspension is gubbed so they point down to their lowest setting.
ergonomics are terrible, the door is miles away from the steering wheel
the gear box gate is wide enough to get a Massey Ferguson through
the seat bases are too short and the back rest gives poor support on long journeys
remap the 130tdi to 180 bhp and it's undriveable with the bloody traction control off when pulling out of a junction, although i concede it is alot nicer to drive once its on the move. But puling out on to wet roundabouts quickly!!! ha forget it!
oh but they have blue dials and the diesels do over 50 mpg so they must be good.....
nope sorry guys, what ever floats your boat (quite literly as they are boat like to dive)
but i would not have another thank you. Also the void between say a B5 Passat and A6 C5 (which they share a lot of parts) is huge!!! No comparison interms of actual build quality and refinement. If you want a diesel trundler by an A4 or an A6.
Read my last post mate! I have a C6 A6 and also a 130 Passat, and also a C5 A4. The passats a better car when you look at what you get for the money, despite the dead steering, and wallowy cornering. If you're eating suspension arms and leaking then i wonder what you're doing, autograss in the rain perhaps? lets cut to the chase here, the Passat is woefull car through corners, even Audi's Quattro system didn't exactly spice things up? the steering is dead, it's too light, and vague.
Ok so now we're on to perceived build quality! hmmm lets look at the Passat weaknesses:
leaks like sieve
eats suspension arms (8 arm design is bloody stupid)
PD TDI's either blow turbos or the NT75 valve qives up which leaves people thinking the turbo has gone
they all like oil and anyone says there's does't? i find hard to believe. especially on long life servicing.
the electrics aren't that great as they get older.
they're noisy, in terms of road noise, the word refined could never be associated with the B5/5.5 plat form
the head lights are like candles (even the £800 factory fit xenons aren't too great either) and if you are luucky enough to have xenons chances are one of the sensors mounted to the front and rear suspension is gubbed so they point down to their lowest setting.
ergonomics are terrible, the door is miles away from the steering wheel
the gear box gate is wide enough to get a Massey Ferguson through
the seat bases are too short and the back rest gives poor support on long journeys
remap the 130tdi to 180 bhp and it's undriveable with the bloody traction control off when pulling out of a junction, although i concede it is alot nicer to drive once its on the move. But puling out on to wet roundabouts quickly!!! ha forget it!
oh but they have blue dials and the diesels do over 50 mpg so they must be good.....
nope sorry guys, what ever floats your boat (quite literly as they are boat like to dive)
but i would not have another thank you. Also the void between say a B5 Passat and A6 C5 (which they share a lot of parts) is huge!!! No comparison interms of actual build quality and refinement. If you want a diesel trundler by an A4 or an A6.
Boobonman said:
This.
At one point, I owned a Mk1 Eunos, and my mate had an E39 M5. I maintain that in 99% of situations the Eunos was much more fun, pulling out onto a dual carriageway for example I could rev to the limter in first, second and third and still not be breaking the NSL. The M5 was a different story altogether, give it some beans in 2nd and you're breaking every speeding law in the land. Epic car, but in my opinion probably too fast to enjoy on Uk roads most of the time.
Simples! Have both. :-)At one point, I owned a Mk1 Eunos, and my mate had an E39 M5. I maintain that in 99% of situations the Eunos was much more fun, pulling out onto a dual carriageway for example I could rev to the limter in first, second and third and still not be breaking the NSL. The M5 was a different story altogether, give it some beans in 2nd and you're breaking every speeding law in the land. Epic car, but in my opinion probably too fast to enjoy on Uk roads most of the time.
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