RE: Is VW going to buy Lotus?
Discussion
kambites said:
300bhp/ton said:
But the simplest thing would be to introduce mass produced parts, so all VAG switchgear, HVAC, electronics and so on. And suddenly it won't be a Lotus, just another VAG wearing a different dress.
Does VAG switchgear have less character than Vauxhall Astra stuff then? 
Would you really want an almost complete Audi TT interior/dash in your next Elise, just because it made it cheaper to mass produce?
Twincam16 said:
DanDC5 said:
Shurv said:
Perhaps Lotus could persuade Akio Toyoda to buy them,he's on a crusade to bring good sports cars back, so here's an opportunity.
This would be the perfect scenario.They've been working an tandem for ages anyway what with using modified Toyota engines throughout the range.
I'd say this:
-Toyota to buy Lotus.
-Toyota to use Lotus at least in part as an advanced engineering facility, making Toyotas better to drive as well as their own sports cars (the GT86 is a good start, but the rest of their range is boring as hell).
-Use Toyota's economies of scale to mass-produce the Elise (possibly at Burnaston) to be sold at an MX5-rivalling price. Still keep the S, but the basic model could be sold for £20-25k if they were churning out thousands per year on semi-automated production lines.
-Tetsuya Tada to be installed as boss of Lotus. He knows more than most in the automotive business what makes for a great sports car. His approach to engineering the GT86 was very Chapmanesque.
-Get the 'new Elite' out as a Lotus-reworked, glassfibre-bodied reworking of the GT86 with a load more power (maybe with a flat-six or at least forced induction), almost as-per the 1982 Excel (which used the gearbox, propshaft, final drive, brakes and diff from the Supra, eliminating the troublesome Eclat setup overnight).
-Ongoing engine development will see the Evora/Elan and Esprit receive brand-new, cutting-edge powerplants that will see service (in different states of tune) in Lexuses too.
-Rather than doing their own pricy four-door, Lotus to do proper successors to the Lotus Cortina and Carlton, based on the Toyota Avensis and Lexus IS. Enter a Lotus-branded 'factory' NGTC Avensis in the BTCC and a brutal wide-arched V8 GS in DTM.
-In places where Lotus dealer networks are patchy, sell them through Lexus dealers.
-Fully buy out the Lotus F1 team to prevent ongoing confusion, albeit retaining Renault as an engine supplier to keep pace with Red Bull (we all know what happened last time Toyota made F1 engines).
E38Ross said:
You're kidding right? Have you seen an aventador or a murcielago or Gallardo etc?
Yes. Lots. And there's the rub. They don't interest me one bit. I haven't driven one either, and have no desire to. I'm sure it's astonishingly fast and very capable, as all modern generic supercars are. Whoopee.But, they are basically a German interpretation of an Italian supercar and making it even faster and giving it names like Balboa or Ba-stardos doesn't make it any more appealing to me. I simply wouldn't wish to be seen in one.
VW have ruined Lamborghini in the same way they've ruined Bentley and Fiat are busy ruining Maserati. It's simple to do - take an expensive marque and turn it into a brand. Lower the price, sell more and..... voila!
thewheelman said:
300bhp/ton said:
Based on what VW have done to other marques I think this would either ruin Lotus for good, or they'll be out on their ear in the cold. Can't see VW having a positive influence on Lotus.
Erm........ VW turned the fortunes around for Seat, Skoda, Lamborghini & Bentley. Skoda - yes, that is a success story.
Lamborghini - at the expense of their soul. If all the engineering was bespoke they'd be great, but they've let perpetual magpies Audi thieve various bits from their parts bin. Also, they've let the styling go from revolutionary to evolutionary to the point where they don't visually excite any more - where's the innovation? Why don't they indulge the design houses?
Bentley - well, the badge exists, but it seems to me that Bentleys are shipped over to Crewe in a crate from Germany to be screwed together in the same way MGs are at Longbridge.
VW is like one of those parasitic organisms that lets its host live on in a zombified state while it lives inside its body. It reduces proud and unique engineering and design heritages to mere 'brands', controlled in an ultra-conservative way from a central German source.
If they got their claws into Lotus, they'd look at a balance sheet, and with regard to their need to maintain the superiority of Porsche, rework the entire Lotus range around the Boxster chassis, with engines deliberately chosen to ensure they're not as fast as Porsche or the Audi R8.
300bhp/ton said:
thewheelman said:
BertBert said:
300bhp/ton said:
I've not driven any
You couldn't make it up.
t. Exactly how many people have likely driven multiple Lambo's??I think you'll find it's you that's the t
t, you claim something isn't as good to drive as the original, yet haven't actually driven it!?What a complete moron!
Twincam16 said:
thewheelman said:
300bhp/ton said:
Based on what VW have done to other marques I think this would either ruin Lotus for good, or they'll be out on their ear in the cold. Can't see VW having a positive influence on Lotus.
Erm........ VW turned the fortunes around for Seat, Skoda, Lamborghini & Bentley. Skoda - yes, that is a success story.
Lamborghini - at the expense of their soul. If all the engineering was bespoke they'd be great, but they've let perpetual magpies Audi thieve various bits from their parts bin. Also, they've let the styling go from revolutionary to evolutionary to the point where they don't visually excite any more - where's the innovation? Why don't they indulge the design houses?
Bentley - well, the badge exists, but it seems to me that Bentleys are shipped over to Crewe in a crate from Germany to be screwed together in the same way MGs are at Longbridge.
VW is like one of those parasitic organisms that lets its host live on in a zombified state while it lives inside its body. It reduces proud and unique engineering and design heritages to mere 'brands', controlled in an ultra-conservative way from a central German source.
If they got their claws into Lotus, they'd look at a balance sheet, and with regard to their need to maintain the superiority of Porsche, rework the entire Lotus range around the Boxster chassis, with engines deliberately chosen to ensure they're not as fast as Porsche or the Audi R8.
iSore said:
VW have ruined Lamborghini in the same way they've ruined Bentley and Fiat are busy ruining Maserati. It's simple to do - take an expensive marque and turn it into a brand. Lower the price, sell more and..... voila!
I take the opposite view.The early Lambo's such as the Miura and the Countach were special, but the 80's and 90's cars are pretty horrible IMO. They are the car equivalent to your dad wearing speedo's and walking down Guildford High Street - a bit embarrassing.
Under VW, Lamborghini's are more appealing to me. They somehow have kept the best bits while reducing the cringe factor. But not in Lime Green, Yellow etc, unless living in the Mediterranean or South Beach Florida.
Twincam16 said:
Lamborghini - at the expense of their soul. If all the engineering was bespoke they'd be great, but they've let perpetual magpies Audi thieve various bits from their parts bin. Also, they've let the styling go from revolutionary to evolutionary to the point where they don't visually excite any more - where's the innovation? Why don't they indulge the design houses?
Evolutionary?They don't visually excite anymore?
300bhp/ton said:
thewheelman said:
Erm........ VW turned the fortunes around for Seat, Skoda, Lamborghini & Bentley.
In the case of Bentley and Lambo are they truly the better for it, or just bigger money spinners now?
Don't forget that the initially pretty shambolic Diablo finally came of age with the VT under Audi's stweardship...Scuffers said:
Chris71 said:
VAG would never buy the company with the aim of producing a Lotus-branded Up! or anything like that. It would most likely concentrate on sub-Boxster roadsters and track cars, which sounds just fine to me.
so remind me again what the Bugatti Veyron is?thewheelman said:
You're determined to make a prick of yourself today aren't you?
I think you'll find it's you that's the tt, you claim something isn't as good to drive as the original, yet haven't actually driven it!?
What a complete moron!
Read what I said, because you are way off and totally wrong.I think you'll find it's you that's the t
t, you claim something isn't as good to drive as the original, yet haven't actually driven it!?What a complete moron!
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