RE: PH Fleet: Renaultsport Megane 265 Cup

[blearyeyedboy]

roystinho said:

I think most know what you mean, though Full Fat is one with everything, so the sport + cup chassis i.e. you can have full fat with cup chassis

Stems from the Clio 182 where a full fat was the regular 182 with both cup packs added

It's reasonable to use unless you've had a head gasket failure and a skimmed cylinder head...

Ba-boom tish.

[TameRacingDriver]

MiseryStreak said:

Worst advice I've ever read. Did you mean buy nearly new and sell before the warranty runs out?

How's the Renault Vel Satis engine in your Zed working out?

Fail. Its a Nissan engine as someone as already pointed out. That is why it still works perfectly even after 140,000 miles.

350Z - Made in Japan, by Nissan. Nothing to do with Reno. If it was, I would have bought an S2000 instead.

[TameRacingDriver]

RacingBlue said:

I genuinely don't understand why you bought a second Clio after hating the brand new one you had first. I agree with you about the driving position being st, and the size of the steering wheel though. Yes, the interior trim is pretty crappy, but what do you expect for the price?

Maybe you had a 'Friday' car, I don't know. Mine has been fine in my ownership, and a colleague has taken his original 172 over 120K miles with no major issues either.

Oh yeah, love the Megane by the way. It's exactly the way I'd spec it, colour aside.

Because I read forums like this that told me "actually its untrue that Reno are unreliable". So I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

On the face of it, the 172 was supposed to be a cheap runaround, capable of good MPG and performance. It managed both of those, but broke all the time. I could have ran a VX Monaro for less.

I won't be making the same mistake again.

It might be worth mentioning that a friend of mine (who is also PH and he can comment if he likes) lost several grand on an R26 Megane due to its poor build quality / reliability.

I've never once said that they drive badly though, they are lots of fun, but don't buy one expecting it to be (a) cheap to run or (b) reliable. If you get one that is, great, I'm happy for you. Buy a few lottery tickets as well

[ant leigh]

TameRacingDriver said:

RacingBlue said:

I genuinely don't understand why you bought a second Clio after hating the brand new one you had first. I agree with you about the driving position being st, and the size of the steering wheel though. Yes, the interior trim is pretty crappy, but what do you expect for the price?

Maybe you had a 'Friday' car, I don't know. Mine has been fine in my ownership, and a colleague has taken his original 172 over 120K miles with no major issues either.

Oh yeah, love the Megane by the way. It's exactly the way I'd spec it, colour aside.

Because I read forums like this that told me "actually its untrue that Reno are unreliable". So I gave them the benefit of the doubt.

On the face of it, the 172 was supposed to be a cheap runaround, capable of good MPG and performance. It managed both of those, but broke all the time. I could have ran a VX Monaro for less.

I won't be making the same mistake again.

It might be worth mentioning that a friend of mine (who is also PH and he can comment if he likes) lost several grand on an R26 Megane due to its poor build quality / reliability.

I've never once said that they drive badly though, they are lots of fun, but don't buy one expecting it to be (a) cheap to run or (b) reliable. If you get one that is, great, I'm happy for you. Buy a few lottery tickets as well

Statistically a person who is disatisfied is twice as likely to complain than a satisfied customer is to praise.

With respect to the R.S. Megane III (the actual subject), the ratio of complaints by users vs praise by users tells the story more than the occasional rant by the usual suspects.

Not that I am complaining to much, I actually enjoy the relative exclusivity on the road.

[Dblue]

Mastodon2 said:

Dblue said:

I am with you on this but I'm not sure it can be done tbh. At heart an in-line 4 is not a great place to start and bolting a turbo on, well thats torn it.

I cant think of a single installation of this spec that sounds good to be honest.

There are plenty of good sounding turbo 4s, but none as standard, an Evo with a straight through, Astra VXR with a Remus etc, all have a bit of smile inducting pop and bang, with a rorty tone. You'll never get the smoothness of an inline 6 or the complexity of the V8, but with enough de-restriction they can sound pleasantly riotous. Subtle they ain't though!

Its still more a question of being loud rather than sounding good though. A Scooby flat 4 has a certain character, the in-line 4 in an EVO is just loud.

[TameRacingDriver]

ant leigh said:

Statistically a person who is disatisfied is twice as likely to complain than a satisfied customer is to praise.

With respect to the R.S. Megane III (the actual subject), the ratio of complaints by users vs praise by users tells the story more than the occasional rant by the usual suspects.

Not that I am complaining to much, I actually enjoy the relative exclusivity on the road.

I give praise where its due. It wasn't due at either of those cars (I had).

Although ugly, I would like to see what the fuss is about with these, but I could never, ever own one. I'd always be living in fear of my wallet being raped (if not in warranty).

[Dblue]

TameRacingDriver said:

ant leigh said:

Statistically a person who is disatisfied is twice as likely to complain than a satisfied customer is to praise.

With respect to the R.S. Megane III (the actual subject), the ratio of complaints by users vs praise by users tells the story more than the occasional rant by the usual suspects.

Not that I am complaining to much, I actually enjoy the relative exclusivity on the road.

I give praise where its due. It wasn't due at either of those cars (I had).

Although ugly, I would like to see what the fuss is about with these, but I could never, ever own one. I'd always be living in fear of my wallet being raped (if not in warranty).

20900 miles in year one and not a single fault of any sort. I look after my cars but its done 4 track days and a lot of quick miles in that.
Not a squeak, rattle, or breakage in that time and none looking likely.
Don't honestly know what people expect. Its at least as reliable as the various prestigious German, Italian and British marques I've had over the last decade or so.

I'd change the stereo and maybe the exhaust if it was out of warranty, rest of it is brilliant.

[TameRacingDriver]

Buy some lottery tickets, you're obviously luckier than me (that wouldn't be difficult, mind).

[ant leigh]

Dblue said:

TameRacingDriver said:

ant leigh said:

Statistically a person who is disatisfied is twice as likely to complain than a satisfied customer is to praise.

With respect to the R.S. Megane III (the actual subject), the ratio of complaints by users vs praise by users tells the story more than the occasional rant by the usual suspects.

Not that I am complaining to much, I actually enjoy the relative exclusivity on the road.

I give praise where its due. It wasn't due at either of those cars (I had).

Although ugly, I would like to see what the fuss is about with these, but I could never, ever own one. I'd always be living in fear of my wallet being raped (if not in warranty).

20900 miles in year one and not a single fault of any sort. I look after my cars but its done 4 track days and a lot of quick miles in that.
Not a squeak, rattle, or breakage in that time and none looking likely.
Don't honestly know what people expect. Its at least as reliable as the various prestigious German, Italian and British marques I've had over the last decade or so.

I'd change the stereo and maybe the exhaust if it was out of warranty, rest of it is brilliant.

In 30 years I have owned a number of cars with a 'reputation' including Renault, Citroen, Landrover, Rover as well as Vauxhalls, Peugeot's, Toyota's and two 5 series BMW's
This as company cars and as private cars.

They are looked after, cleaned and checked weekly and serviced at regular intervals and only two were owned from new (although all were less than 2 years old when purchased)
Never driven hard from cold and never thrashed for long periods (although some spirited driving yes)

In consequence I have had almost no serious issues with any of the cars I have owned. In fact only three occasions when a car refused to go at all (both of the BMW's and a Peugeot at fault but easily fixed)

My philosophy, buy carefully (if not new), look after properly and you will have no problems.
If you do its just bad luck.
Dont buy older cars that may/look/likely to have been thrashed no matter what the salesman tells you.
If it turns out to be a problem don't constantly criticise at any opportunity any related car on nothing more than your experience and your mates down the road.

[After_Shock]

kambites said:

Probably the most interesting of the mainstream hot hatches available at the moment, and a nice spec, but I can't help but feel that the M135i makes the market position of the more conventional hot hatches a bit awkward.

It does until you delve into the options list, then it goes way beyond hot hatch territory!

[TameRacingDriver]

ant leigh said:

My philosophy, buy carefully (if not new), look after properly and you will have no problems.
If you do its just bad luck.
Dont buy older cars that may/look/likely to have been thrashed no matter what the salesman tells you.
If it turns out to be a problem don't constantly criticise at any opportunity any related car on nothing more than your experience and your mates down the road.

I'm interested to know what "abuse" I could have caused my then new 182 that, in the space of 15K miles, had the following go wrong:-

• Climate control packed in
• Alarm packed in
• Windscreen not properly sealed - took 5 trips to sort that one out
• Exhaust rusted away - wear and tear, Renault said. After 15K miles?! bks.
• Steering wheel melted (again, said to be wear and tear).
• Engine mount failure (no, it wasn't abused)

And I presumably could have looked forward to being fired in the bushes thanks to leaking dampers.

I have driven lots of other Renaults that felt very tired at their age. My 80,000 mile replacement ITR felt tighter and better at 10 years old than the Clio did brand new.

I'll say again, my old 172, that everyone seems to believe was a clapped out POS, had a FSH (allegedly), and was said by a Renault specialist who fixes them day in, day out to be a lovely example that was clearly producing all of its allocated ponies. And yet, that car, which I looked after with kid gloves, caused me no end of grief.

I'm sorry, but you will never get me to agree that Renaults are very good. And people saying JD Power is bks are just saying it because it's not what they want to hear. This is a customer satisfaction survey, which states that, in general, people are less satisfied with Renault's than many other brand of cars.

French cars did not get bad reputations for no reason, but AFAICT, Renault are by far the worst of the French manufacturers, as I believe that stuff like Pug 106 / 306 and Saxos and the like are actually quite reliable, if not very well built.

Unfortunately these days, Renault also like to cram their cars full of complicated, and difficult to service electrics. Looks good on a spec sheet versus rivals, not so good for the poor owner (like me) who has to fork out for constant repairs because of the rubbish build quality.

I am not exactly surprised that those with brand new cars may not have had any issues, you bloody well shouldn't! And you have a warranty to help you out if it goes wrong. But after that, you're on your own, and I wouldn't want to repeat my experience. Frankly, I'd only wish it on my worst enemy.

If I was buying a NEW car then yes, I may consider one, but as I'm not a company director (yet) I can't afford £28K for what is, at the end of the day, a turbo charged shopping trolley.

ETA: That won't be a popular opinion on PH, as seemingly only the MX5 can rival anything with a Reno badge for gushing praise. It seems you aren't allowed to dislike a Renault Sport on here. FWIW, even if my 182 had been trouble free, it was such an overrated vehicle, and the fact it was the best out of its rivals says more for how poor its rivals were than how good the 182 was IMO.

Edited by TameRacingDriver on Wednesday 12th December 13:34

[SarGara]

garypotter said:

Reading a lot of fans on this coice, but £28k for a renault are you mad!!!!!!!!!

I think you need a reality check on new car prices in 2012.

[KMB]

Tameracingdriver: You'll like this one...

Since their alliance with Nissan I believe Renault have gradually adopted many improved practices that have helped bring Japanese reliability closer to French cars, given the 5-6 year development cycle I think it's is now evident that they are streets aheads of where they were 5-8 years ago.

Move with the times and try a modern Renaultsport before you go on about ancient vehicles again :-P

Edited by KMB on Wednesday 12th December 13:45

[TameRacingDriver]

SarGara said:

garypotter said:

Reading a lot of fans on this coice, but £28k for a renault are you mad!!!!!!!!!

I think you need a reality check on new car prices in 2012.

Cars are just ridiculously, insanely expensive now. No way is this worth £28K. But then, neither is a Focus ST, Astra VXR or any other rival for that matter. The only one I could maybe say is even approaching decent value is the BMW 135i Sport. At least it has a good engine and the correct wheels driven.

[TameRacingDriver]

KMB said:

You'll like this one...

Since their alliance with Nissan I believe Renault have gradually adopted many improved practices that have helped bring Japanese reliability closer to French cars, given the 5-6 year development cycle I think it's is now evident that they are streets aheads of where they were 5-8 years ago.

Time will tell

I've heard the 197s gearbox is made of chocolate though. And like I say, my friend had plenty of issues with his R26.

[KMB]

You beat my edit :-(

[ant leigh]

TameRacingDriver said:

I'm interested to know what "abuse" I could have caused my then new 182 that, in the space of 15K miles, had the following go wrong:-

• Climate control packed in
• Alarm packed in
• Windscreen not properly sealed - took 5 trips to sort that one out
• Exhaust rusted away - wear and tear, Renault said. After 15K miles?! bks.
• Steering wheel melted (again, said to be wear and tear).
• Engine mount failure (no, it wasn't abused)

Edited by TameRacingDriver on Wednesday 12th December 13:34

So you were unlucky, compared to other owners.
You don't like them, thats fine also.
But your extreme rants are what is causing the rebuttals, especially a Clio rant on a Megane thread.

For example, the one car I absolutely loathed was the VW Passat. Handling was atrocious and it certainly soured my thinking when I was test driving an A4, although I am sure it shouldn't have.
However this is the first time I have ever posted anywhere about how much I hated the car, and I don't spend any time on VW threads constantly slating the handling/build/ride etc.

[Dblue]

TameRacingDriver said:

SarGara said:

garypotter said:

Reading a lot of fans on this coice, but £28k for a renault are you mad!!!!!!!!!

I think you need a reality check on new car prices in 2012.

Cars are just ridiculously, insanely expensive now. No way is this worth £28K. But then, neither is a Focus ST, Astra VXR or any other rival for that matter. The only one I could maybe say is even approaching decent value is the BMW 135i Sport. At least it has a good engine and the correct wheels driven.

As with all BMWs, the "list price" is an almost pointless reference. The fact is that even a poverty spec 135i will cost £32k and most will be nearer £35k.

Now that may include some stuff that on the Renault you just cannot get anyway I admit but some basics will need to be paid for as always.

The actual purchase price of the 2 cars will likely be £6-8k different. Not so good value now.

Its also ugly as sin, especially from the front.


The fact is that the Renault (and other competitors) have similar outputs and performance to 1990 Porsche 911s, in light of that £28k doesn't seem unreasonable

[ant leigh]

KMB said:

Tameracingdriver: You'll like this one...

Since their alliance with Nissan I believe Renault have gradually adopted many improved practices that have helped bring Japanese reliability closer to French cars, given the 5-6 year development cycle I think it's is now evident that they are streets aheads of where they were 5-8 years ago.

Move with the times and try a modern Renaultsport before you go on about ancient vehicles again :-P

Edited by KMB on Wednesday 12th December 13:45

I like the term 'alliance', very PR
However the cross shareholding is heavily weighted in favour of Renault (44%/15% I think), and the Nissan CEO is a Renault man. Close to a takeover IMO
Certainly though Renault are taking a lot of benefit in terms of QA/QC from Nissan and that seems to be a part of Renaults improving quality/reliability

[framerateuk]

TameRacingDriver said:

At least it has a good engine and the correct wheels driven.

Oh the typical wrong wheel drive argument.

Surly no-one expects a hot hatch to be rear wheel drive? If you want rear wheel drive you need to be looking at another market segment. I wouldn't say the 135i is even in the same market sector as the Megane/VXR/ST.