RE: Ferrari F150 vs McLaren P1: PH Blog
Discussion
Rich_W said:
And they dit it with SLR and the F1. (I don't blame them btw) You've managed to sum up my entire point in a few sentances. Cheers for that. You do understand Irony don't you? 
Prove it.Edited by Rich_W on Sunday 3rd March 17:53
Go on, prove that Mclaren did what you say with the F1 & SLR.
Also, no answer on your comment wrt Mr Harris? You're just a FIAT Fanboy, really. That point is quite clear.
As for irony? You need to look in the mirror.
Oh, and you say 86% Trolling, 14% Facts? I feel the odds are in the favour of trolling here.
Edited by Caractacus on Monday 4th March 00:26
C36 Nico said:
SlipStream77 said:
davepoth said:
Ferrari is a novelty goods empire that also happens to make some cars, McLaren is a car company. That's the difference.
He does have a point though. Ferrari are lovely cars, but the image of modern Ferrari puts some people right off. Me included.
toppstuff said:
C36 Nico said:
SlipStream77 said:
davepoth said:
Ferrari is a novelty goods empire that also happens to make some cars, McLaren is a car company. That's the difference.
He does have a point though. Ferrari are lovely cars, but the image of modern Ferrari puts some people right off. Me included.
The image of modern ferraris is the fact that its the most desireable brand in the world , people want accessories.
Its also a ticket to one of the most influential business networks out there, no wonder people want to get involved.
Personally Maclarens do nothing for me, but then Im not british.
It fails on a very traditional level, by resorting to turbos and failing to nail the aesthetics and emotions that after all is so important in this sector.
Bland to look at, uninvolving interior and exterior design - oh and turbos - which requires no skill at all.
F150 all day for me.
C36 Nico said:
Personally Maclarens do nothing for me, but then Im not british.
It fails on a very traditional level, by resorting to turbos and failing to nail the aesthetics and emotions that after all is so important in this sector.
Bland to look at, uninvolving interior and exterior design - oh and turbos - which requires no skill at all.
F150 all day for me.
Don't know how a childs pram/buggy can be compared to a Ferrari, but each to their own.It fails on a very traditional level, by resorting to turbos and failing to nail the aesthetics and emotions that after all is so important in this sector.
Bland to look at, uninvolving interior and exterior design - oh and turbos - which requires no skill at all.
F150 all day for me.
Joking aside, your post suggest you have no clue about anything really.
Resorting to turbos, no skill= F40. Pagani Huayra. Bugatti EB110. etc.
Bland to look at= Personal taste. To me, it's beautiful. Some like the look of the Veyron, I think it's a dog.
You slate the looks of the McLaren, yet no one has actually seen the Ferrari yet, so how can you have that opinion, unless you're biased, which is quite clear, but obviously forgetting the F40 because it's a no skill car as you put it.
But please do carry on...
Actually, the PR hasnt done much for me either way.
I didnt realise it till I read that the bmw i8 thing has been in concept form (or whatever) for 2 years. Then it struck me, I havent really taken any notice of it at all.
I probably WONT get interested till I see the first production tests of these cars against each other. More to the point, I probably wont care about the first few of these anyway, knowing that Ferrari will try and send OPTIMISED cars.
Lets just have 2 standard cars, independantly tested, and then it is what it is.
Until then, its all BS, and I dont particularly feel lik ebeing treated like the PR lab rat of either of these companies.
I didnt realise it till I read that the bmw i8 thing has been in concept form (or whatever) for 2 years. Then it struck me, I havent really taken any notice of it at all.
I probably WONT get interested till I see the first production tests of these cars against each other. More to the point, I probably wont care about the first few of these anyway, knowing that Ferrari will try and send OPTIMISED cars.
Lets just have 2 standard cars, independantly tested, and then it is what it is.
Until then, its all BS, and I dont particularly feel lik ebeing treated like the PR lab rat of either of these companies.
stew-S160 said:
C36 Nico said:
Personally Maclarens do nothing for me, but then Im not british.
It fails on a very traditional level, by resorting to turbos and failing to nail the aesthetics and emotions that after all is so important in this sector.
Bland to look at, uninvolving interior and exterior design - oh and turbos - which requires no skill at all.
F150 all day for me.
Don't know how a childs pram/buggy can be compared to a Ferrari, but each to their own.It fails on a very traditional level, by resorting to turbos and failing to nail the aesthetics and emotions that after all is so important in this sector.
Bland to look at, uninvolving interior and exterior design - oh and turbos - which requires no skill at all.
F150 all day for me.
Joking aside, your post suggest you have no clue about anything really.
Resorting to turbos, no skill= F40. Pagani Huayra. Bugatti EB110. etc.
Bland to look at= Personal taste. To me, it's beautiful. Some like the look of the Veyron, I think it's a dog.
You slate the looks of the McLaren, yet no one has actually seen the Ferrari yet, so how can you have that opinion, unless you're biased, which is quite clear, but obviously forgetting the F40 because it's a no skill car as you put it.
But please do carry on...
Pagani Huayra was for me a huge letdown, soundtrack is very underwhelming. Ugly too. EB110 is so rare and obscure anyway, no relevance at all except a pig ugly interior.
Veyron is just vulgar, but at least it divides opinion - Im sure someone likes it. I dont.
the MP4-12C or whatever its called is just not stirring up any emotions for me, a bit like a koeningsegg..
Classic example of "nice.... I guess"
C36 Nico said:
Personally Maclarens do nothing for me, but then Im not british.
It fails on a very traditional level, by resorting to turbos and failing to nail the aesthetics and emotions that after all is so important in this sector.
Bland to look at, uninvolving interior and exterior design - oh and turbos - which requires no skill at all.
F150 all day for me.
I beg to differ. The McLarens tick a lot of boxes for me and I'm not British. I love the unpretentious interior, I could do without the roof scoop but it's functional so it's excused.It fails on a very traditional level, by resorting to turbos and failing to nail the aesthetics and emotions that after all is so important in this sector.
Bland to look at, uninvolving interior and exterior design - oh and turbos - which requires no skill at all.
F150 all day for me.
And EMOTION?!?! bloody emotion?! Gee the P1's got that Lightning McQueen smile to it so oh I feel so happy looking at it! For now P1 has got the Ferrari beat on "emotion" whatever the hell that means.
Edited by Dr Z on Monday 4th March 11:18
MrRA said:
As with the current sentiment regarding the MP4 -12C to be a technically excellent and compelling supercar, but the 458 being just as good but with that 'passion of character' that Ferrari somehow seems to evoke with its products, I have a funny feeling that history will repeat with P1 v F150 battle soon to be played out. With a highly strung naturally aspirated big V12 at it's heart, it's certainly struck the first blow for me already, regardless of what McLaren says about it's twin turbo V8. Bespoke hypercars should get a bespoke powerplant if you ask me.
That's my tuppence worth anyway without wanting to go deeply into the argument.
Either way, if you're in the business of buying million pound hypercars at the moment, life must be pretty damn good indeed. Near perpetual orgasmic in feeling I would hazard a guess at
I think something else to consider is that Mc hadn't built a car like the MP12 before really and so it's automatic and natural comparison was with the 458. That's my tuppence worth anyway without wanting to go deeply into the argument.
Either way, if you're in the business of buying million pound hypercars at the moment, life must be pretty damn good indeed. Near perpetual orgasmic in feeling I would hazard a guess at
Edited by MrRA on Saturday 2nd March 16:38
The P1 is ever so slightly different in that while it is still be launched alongside an equivalent Ferrari and there are obvious comparisons to make and competition between them, this time Mc have built this type of car before and arguably it was one of the greatest cars ever made. IMO the P1's biggest battle is not against the F150 but against its dad, the F1. The best reviews will be the ones that look at how Mc have evolved from the F1 to the P1 and which is better and for what reasons.
C36 Nico said:
toppstuff said:
C36 Nico said:
SlipStream77 said:
davepoth said:
Ferrari is a novelty goods empire that also happens to make some cars, McLaren is a car company. That's the difference.
He does have a point though. Ferrari are lovely cars, but the image of modern Ferrari puts some people right off. Me included.
The image of modern ferraris is the fact that its the most desireable brand in the world , people want accessories.
Its also a ticket to one of the most influential business networks out there, no wonder people want to get involved.
Personally Maclarens do nothing for me, but then Im not british.
It fails on a very traditional level, by resorting to turbos and failing to nail the aesthetics and emotions that after all is so important in this sector.
Bland to look at, uninvolving interior and exterior design - oh and turbos - which requires no skill at all.
F150 all day for me.
The weird thing is, I do like older Ferraris from the 70's and 80's, and onwards to include the 355 - a sweet little car.
But I think Ferrari as a brand nowadays is all about theme parks in Dubai, aftershave and playboys. The noise the 458 ( for example ) is fake to me, deliberately noisy so as to deliberately attract attention. I have driven a 458 ( a yellow one ) but to be honest I just did'nt like it very much. I know I am in a minority ( because everyone seems to love them ) but I think it tries too hard.
And whenever I hear "Ferrari" and "passion" and "soul" used in the same sentence, I just want to roll my eyes and think "meh, whatever"..
I dont like the 458 either. Tries too hard as you say. Looks a bit hentai
manga and with fuzzy lines.
Personally ever since Goldeneye Ive wanted a F355 (How P-Bro managed to stay glued to its bumper with a 60s aston will forever be a mystery) , but owner stories put me off. Seems like a flawed vehicle from an engineers point of view, the engine runs very hot and 5-digit bills are not for me, I wouldnt be able to sleep at night and it would ruin the entire experience for me. If you can afford it though, few cars sound better.
manga and with fuzzy lines.Personally ever since Goldeneye Ive wanted a F355 (How P-Bro managed to stay glued to its bumper with a 60s aston will forever be a mystery) , but owner stories put me off. Seems like a flawed vehicle from an engineers point of view, the engine runs very hot and 5-digit bills are not for me, I wouldnt be able to sleep at night and it would ruin the entire experience for me. If you can afford it though, few cars sound better.
Edited by C36 Nico on Monday 4th March 13:06
to C36 Nico-if the Huyara is ugly it's because you are the beholder!
When the history of bespoke motor cars is written Horacio Pagani will have a large entry for the beauty, the engineering and the soul of his cars. IMHO Ferrari since the 275 in the 60's have always LIED about their new car's performance, so Daytona, Boxer, Testa Rossa etc were misdescribed by Maranello. Pininfarina have lost their mojo too and most new Ferrari's look like variations of a Toyota Supra/Lancia Stratos mailmerge, or refugees from a Pixar movie, since the 288GTO. For drama the Aventador is astonishly good value, compared to the hypercars prices and i think the baton has passed in some small way to the likes of Pagani,and Koeniggsegg. If the P1 makes it, I for one will be pleased as McLaren are similarly the expression of a man with a team, not a many marque owning large manufacturer, which would tend to disqualify VW and Fiat but maybe we are all being a bit too pernickety. Rejoice I say rejoice that they are all being built at all in the current economic climate left us by the one eye, bliar and balls. Finally a Zonda must be the least depreciating asset to own ask Harry Metcalfe of EVO magazine as he almost doubled his money when he sold his last month.
When the history of bespoke motor cars is written Horacio Pagani will have a large entry for the beauty, the engineering and the soul of his cars. IMHO Ferrari since the 275 in the 60's have always LIED about their new car's performance, so Daytona, Boxer, Testa Rossa etc were misdescribed by Maranello. Pininfarina have lost their mojo too and most new Ferrari's look like variations of a Toyota Supra/Lancia Stratos mailmerge, or refugees from a Pixar movie, since the 288GTO. For drama the Aventador is astonishly good value, compared to the hypercars prices and i think the baton has passed in some small way to the likes of Pagani,and Koeniggsegg. If the P1 makes it, I for one will be pleased as McLaren are similarly the expression of a man with a team, not a many marque owning large manufacturer, which would tend to disqualify VW and Fiat but maybe we are all being a bit too pernickety. Rejoice I say rejoice that they are all being built at all in the current economic climate left us by the one eye, bliar and balls. Finally a Zonda must be the least depreciating asset to own ask Harry Metcalfe of EVO magazine as he almost doubled his money when he sold his last month.
pagani1 said:
to C36 Nico-if the Huyara is ugly it's because you are the beholder!
When the history of bespoke motor cars is written Horacio Pagani will have a large entry for the beauty, the engineering and the soul of his cars. IMHO Ferrari since the 275 in the 60's have always LIED about their new car's performance, so Daytona, Boxer, Testa Rossa etc were misdescribed by Maranello. Pininfarina have lost their mojo too and most new Ferrari's look like variations of a Toyota Supra/Lancia Stratos mailmerge, or refugees from a Pixar movie, since the 288GTO. For drama the Aventador is astonishly good value, compared to the hypercars prices and i think the baton has passed in some small way to the likes of Pagani,and Koeniggsegg. If the P1 makes it, I for one will be pleased as McLaren are similarly the expression of a man with a team, not a many marque owning large manufacturer, which would tend to disqualify VW and Fiat but maybe we are all being a bit too pernickety. Rejoice I say rejoice that they are all being built at all in the current economic climate left us by the one eye, bliar and balls. Finally a Zonda must be the least depreciating asset to own ask Harry Metcalfe of EVO magazine as he almost doubled his money when he sold his last month.
Its an opinion and I will voice it. Zonda good, Huayra bad. Re the comparisons... well at least ferrari and lamborghini developed their own ( NA) engines... as for passing the baton to koeningsegg, well thats just laughable. Backyard tuner who up until now has been using Ford V8 engines and supercharged them... They are certainly no lookers which to me is one of the most important parts of supercar attraction. I`d never buy one if I won the lottery, way too pricey for what you get.When the history of bespoke motor cars is written Horacio Pagani will have a large entry for the beauty, the engineering and the soul of his cars. IMHO Ferrari since the 275 in the 60's have always LIED about their new car's performance, so Daytona, Boxer, Testa Rossa etc were misdescribed by Maranello. Pininfarina have lost their mojo too and most new Ferrari's look like variations of a Toyota Supra/Lancia Stratos mailmerge, or refugees from a Pixar movie, since the 288GTO. For drama the Aventador is astonishly good value, compared to the hypercars prices and i think the baton has passed in some small way to the likes of Pagani,and Koeniggsegg. If the P1 makes it, I for one will be pleased as McLaren are similarly the expression of a man with a team, not a many marque owning large manufacturer, which would tend to disqualify VW and Fiat but maybe we are all being a bit too pernickety. Rejoice I say rejoice that they are all being built at all in the current economic climate left us by the one eye, bliar and balls. Finally a Zonda must be the least depreciating asset to own ask Harry Metcalfe of EVO magazine as he almost doubled his money when he sold his last month.
pagani1 said:
to C36 Nico-if the Huyara is ugly it's because you are the beholder!
When the history of bespoke motor cars is written Horacio Pagani will have a large entry for the beauty, the engineering and the soul of his cars. IMHO Ferrari since the 275 in the 60's have always LIED about their new car's performance, so Daytona, Boxer, Testa Rossa etc were misdescribed by Maranello. Pininfarina have lost their mojo too and most new Ferrari's look like variations of a Toyota Supra/Lancia Stratos mailmerge, or refugees from a Pixar movie, since the 288GTO. For drama the Aventador is astonishly good value, compared to the hypercars prices and i think the baton has passed in some small way to the likes of Pagani,and Koeniggsegg. If the P1 makes it, I for one will be pleased as McLaren are similarly the expression of a man with a team, not a many marque owning large manufacturer, which would tend to disqualify VW and Fiat but maybe we are all being a bit too pernickety. Rejoice I say rejoice that they are all being built at all in the current economic climate left us by the one eye, bliar and balls. Finally a Zonda must be the least depreciating asset to own ask Harry Metcalfe of EVO magazine as he almost doubled his money when he sold his last month.
I am a fan of the Huayra - and I much prefer it to the Zonda personally.When the history of bespoke motor cars is written Horacio Pagani will have a large entry for the beauty, the engineering and the soul of his cars. IMHO Ferrari since the 275 in the 60's have always LIED about their new car's performance, so Daytona, Boxer, Testa Rossa etc were misdescribed by Maranello. Pininfarina have lost their mojo too and most new Ferrari's look like variations of a Toyota Supra/Lancia Stratos mailmerge, or refugees from a Pixar movie, since the 288GTO. For drama the Aventador is astonishly good value, compared to the hypercars prices and i think the baton has passed in some small way to the likes of Pagani,and Koeniggsegg. If the P1 makes it, I for one will be pleased as McLaren are similarly the expression of a man with a team, not a many marque owning large manufacturer, which would tend to disqualify VW and Fiat but maybe we are all being a bit too pernickety. Rejoice I say rejoice that they are all being built at all in the current economic climate left us by the one eye, bliar and balls. Finally a Zonda must be the least depreciating asset to own ask Harry Metcalfe of EVO magazine as he almost doubled his money when he sold his last month.
I do worry a little if Pagani is a bit "style over substance" however. It is not actually very hard to contract-out anodised aluminium components and have your name etched in them, in the way that Pagani seems to on everything, but I wonder how deep the engineering goes? Koeniggsegg are using aluminium honeycomb these days ( a massive step forward ) and I wonder if they have more engineering integrity, even if their cool Swedish ways mean that they are light on charm and "passion" ( whatever that means...)
Paganis are very , very pretty. They are massive objects of desire.
But Koenigsegg ( and indeed McLaren ) are making the kind of cars that would I imagine come from the same mindset as an F22 or Eurofighter. They don't care about the bling. They are built for a purpose. I identify more with this, than I do with an Italian supercar made in the hills outside Modena and preened like a peacock to be pretty, pretty, pretty. But thats just me.
C36 Nico said:
Koeningsegg need to make an NA engine and develop another shell rather than that UGLY CCX model which has been rehashed for 10 years now. Until then no ta
Well you have made precisely my point. I dont really care that the design has'nt changed much - the new Agera looks good enough to me.I do care that they appear to be making them out of aluminium honeycomb - a tech never really seen in road cars because it is so expensive. Pagani seem a bit like a very up market, very expensive kit / component car to me. Everything seems to be made somewhere else ( engines from AMG ) and then they are bolted together with a bit of bling. Very lovely, but I am not sure how authentic they are.
Take McLaren, they have rooms full of boffins. Nerdy types who are obsessed with engineering. I don't think Pagani have so many.
Koeniggsegg appears to be made by engineers in a shed. They don't seem bothered that other cars are prettier. I prefer that, personally.
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