RE: Aston and AMG: it's official!
Discussion
Call me cynical but.....
The heart of an Aston is an Aston V8 or V12. Not an AMG V8 or V12.
Although not leading edge, they never were. That in some ways is the point.
Coswotrh is no longer working in F1. It's engine for the CX-75 is not needed because Jag are not making the CX75 though Porka are making the 918, MC Laren the P1 and Ferrari the La.
Lotus is still stagnated and its engineering "arm" not helping much to rectify the situation.
Jag and RR are doing wonders.
Koenigssseg are happily able to make a 9740HP V8 twin turbo in house.
It is another chapter in Germanification of Europe's car industry. And as such I cannot see how Aston will have anything to say or teach AMG about engines or tech in general. Let alone have any real influence on AMG's plans for engine development. Imagine an Aston Martin with a twin turbo...!?!?!?
German companies now have a significant tech stake or ownership so many small and medium producers it is no longer funny.
To be honest I fail to see, how for example a pairing of Aston / Jaguar / Cosworth of Jaguar / anyone on F1 could not bring a decent solution to Aston.....
The plaque on your Aston Engine will be changed to mass produced by AMG. as Aston relegated to being a coach builder.
The heart of an Aston is an Aston V8 or V12. Not an AMG V8 or V12.
Although not leading edge, they never were. That in some ways is the point.
Coswotrh is no longer working in F1. It's engine for the CX-75 is not needed because Jag are not making the CX75 though Porka are making the 918, MC Laren the P1 and Ferrari the La.
Lotus is still stagnated and its engineering "arm" not helping much to rectify the situation.
Jag and RR are doing wonders.
Koenigssseg are happily able to make a 9740HP V8 twin turbo in house.
It is another chapter in Germanification of Europe's car industry. And as such I cannot see how Aston will have anything to say or teach AMG about engines or tech in general. Let alone have any real influence on AMG's plans for engine development. Imagine an Aston Martin with a twin turbo...!?!?!?
German companies now have a significant tech stake or ownership so many small and medium producers it is no longer funny.
To be honest I fail to see, how for example a pairing of Aston / Jaguar / Cosworth of Jaguar / anyone on F1 could not bring a decent solution to Aston.....
The plaque on your Aston Engine will be changed to mass produced by AMG. as Aston relegated to being a coach builder.
loudlashadjuster said:
x65 AMG models must sell in tiny numbers, the S600 maybe slightly more, so maybe that's one of the benefits to Mercedes/AMG for the tie up?
After all, maybe selling another 500-1000 V12s per annum makes continuing their development worthwhile for M-B?
There aren't many (any?) other manufacturers in the world who could even contemplate buying V12s in those numbers.
The W12 in Bentley's twin-turbo format is the highest volume 12 cylinder engine currently in production, at around 8000 cars per annum. The Mercedes V12 must be less than this, but I don't know how much less.After all, maybe selling another 500-1000 V12s per annum makes continuing their development worthwhile for M-B?
There aren't many (any?) other manufacturers in the world who could even contemplate buying V12s in those numbers.
So, say, 1000 Aston Martins per year with a Mercedes V12 will make a meaningful impact on production economies for that engine.
For all the P'Hers on here who are sad WAKE UP TO THE REAL WORLD. Aston Martin could not afford to manufacture a new line of engines that comply with upcoming EU anti pollution legislation. They chose AMG as they have close ties with IndustrialInvest the newest shareholders of Aston who were needed as DARinvest the Qatari's who own a third of Aston approximately failed to repay a £100 millionbond and so were not in a position to invest more in Aston. David Richards and the board have done very well to (a) bring in more external investors (who had rescued Ducati previously) and (b)through that company establish a good working reationship with AMG Mercedes for new engines. There is no bad news or downside. Currently Aston Martin has roughly the same share value as when Ford sold most of the ownership on. In a world where a lot of industries and car companies are flying upside down this latest news is brilliant. To all of the luddites..bleating TVR or buy GM engines in a crate, what part of the luxury car market do you not understand? AMG has a pedigree and so still do Aston Martin, so lets all cheer up and look forward to a One Seven Seven with a Pagani spec engine maybe, and some really good high performance from this deal. AMG have invested with buying 5% of Aston-so they're confident too.
smilo996 said:
Koenigssseg are happily able to make a 9740HP V8 twin turbo in house.
I seem to recall that that one is based on a Ford Modular V8. Am I mistaken?BTW
Koenigsegg are working on a camshaftless engine. They are testing a pneumatic valve system. Whatch teh video on youtube!
pagani1 said:
For all the P'Hers on here who are sad WAKE UP TO THE REAL WORLD. Aston Martin could not afford to manufacture a new line of engines that comply with upcoming EU anti pollution legislation. They chose AMG as they have close ties with IndustrialInvest the newest shareholders of Aston who were needed as DARinvest the Qatari's who own a third of Aston approximately failed to repay a £100 millionbond and so were not in a position to invest more in Aston. David Richards and the board have done very well to (a) bring in more external investors (who had rescued Ducati previously) and (b)through that company establish a good working reationship with AMG Mercedes for new engines. There is no bad news or downside. Currently Aston Martin has roughly the same share value as when Ford sold most of the ownership on. In a world where a lot of industries and car companies are flying upside down this latest news is brilliant. To all of the luddites..bleating TVR or buy GM engines in a crate, what part of the luxury car market do you not understand? AMG has a pedigree and so still do Aston Martin, so lets all cheer up and look forward to a One Seven Seven with a Pagani spec engine maybe, and some really good high performance from this deal. AMG have invested with buying 5% of Aston-so they're confident too.
The article doesn't mention the buying of any stake? Is talks of the issue of 5% of non voting stock to Merc but the implication is that this was part of the way for cash strapped Aston to pay for the access to the tech?Luddites Part 2. Please note all AMG engines supplied to Pagani are hand assembled by one person and have an engine plate naming the person at AMG who built it, curiously similar to Aston's current set up.
Mercedes Benz are able to invest astronomical sums in engine technology and Aston Martin are not. For the size of the company Aston Martin have done a brilliant job to remain independent and this AMG engine deal secures this even more for the future. So three cheers to Dave Richards and all at Aston Martin for keeping the company in a healthy state-all good news for UK PLC too!
Mercedes Benz are able to invest astronomical sums in engine technology and Aston Martin are not. For the size of the company Aston Martin have done a brilliant job to remain independent and this AMG engine deal secures this even more for the future. So three cheers to Dave Richards and all at Aston Martin for keeping the company in a healthy state-all good news for UK PLC too!
kambites said:
Certainly a good thing for Aston's future. Producing custom engines for small(ish)-volume cars is never very financially attractive and if they're going to buy them in, they probably couldn't have picked a better source.
This reallySmall low volume makers just don't have the where withall to really build and develop their own engines on top of the rest of the car. It doesn't make sense. Much better to get people like AMG, Cosworth, JLR, Ford to supply your engines because they do have the back bone to support such activities extremely well.
An Aston with an AMG Mercedes V8 won't be any the worse for it and there should be no shame in it either. The end user probably won't even know or care. But he'll be getting the same performance or better with better emissions, better fuel economy and maybe higher reliability/support.
How many examples are there of low volume sports car makers trying to build their own engines and then having it cripple them to the point of failure? I assume TVR is one such case? Even Lotus were going to go down that route while Baha was in charge.... Even though switching from dependable Toyota engines (some of which have Yamaha input) is plainly a daft thing to do.
As read on Bloomberg
Daimler AG (DAI), the world’s third-biggest luxury-car maker, will acquire as much as 5 percent of sports-car producer Aston Martin Lagonda Ltd. in exchange for providing engines for the partner’s future models.
Daimler will obtain the stake in several steps, depending on the progress of a technical partnership the companies are setting up in a non-cash transaction, the Stuttgart, Germany-based manufacturer said today in a statement.
Aston Martin, the only global luxury-auto maker that doesn’t belong to a larger manufacturing group, is seeking to limit spending on developing new models as it competes with Volkswagen AG (VOW)’s Bentley and Fiat SpA (F)’s Ferrari and Maserati. Backed by a new investor, Investindustrial SpA, the maker of sports cars featured in James Bond movies laid out plans in January to invest 500 million pounds ($765 million) over the next four years.
Daimler’s Mercedes-AMG high-performance subsidiary will supply engines to Gaydon, England-based Aston Martin, it said. The German company’s main Mercedes-Benz division will provide electronic components to the U.K. carmaker.
The partnership is “proof of AMG’s technological and performance expertise, and a real win-win situation for both sides,” said Ola Kaellenius, head of Mercedes-AMG, said in the statement.
The companies, which have been in talks since the beginning of the year, said they plan to sign a definitive agreement in the second half of 2013.
Daimler AG (DAI), the world’s third-biggest luxury-car maker, will acquire as much as 5 percent of sports-car producer Aston Martin Lagonda Ltd. in exchange for providing engines for the partner’s future models.
Daimler will obtain the stake in several steps, depending on the progress of a technical partnership the companies are setting up in a non-cash transaction, the Stuttgart, Germany-based manufacturer said today in a statement.
Aston Martin, the only global luxury-auto maker that doesn’t belong to a larger manufacturing group, is seeking to limit spending on developing new models as it competes with Volkswagen AG (VOW)’s Bentley and Fiat SpA (F)’s Ferrari and Maserati. Backed by a new investor, Investindustrial SpA, the maker of sports cars featured in James Bond movies laid out plans in January to invest 500 million pounds ($765 million) over the next four years.
Daimler’s Mercedes-AMG high-performance subsidiary will supply engines to Gaydon, England-based Aston Martin, it said. The German company’s main Mercedes-Benz division will provide electronic components to the U.K. carmaker.
The partnership is “proof of AMG’s technological and performance expertise, and a real win-win situation for both sides,” said Ola Kaellenius, head of Mercedes-AMG, said in the statement.
The companies, which have been in talks since the beginning of the year, said they plan to sign a definitive agreement in the second half of 2013.
WokkaWokka said:
Now is the time to buy an Aston before you cant get one with an original engine!
Oh, yes, roll-up! get the inferior engine while you still can!I suspect this announcement will send next month's sales off a cliff, unless Aston can reassure everyone who is about to push the button that their sexy brand new car won't be a complete white elephant within 12 months.
pagani1 said:
Luddites Part 2. Please note all AMG engines supplied to Pagani are hand assembled by one person and have an engine plate naming the person at AMG who built it, curiously similar to Aston's current set up.
Mercedes Benz are able to invest astronomical sums in engine technology and Aston Martin are not. For the size of the company Aston Martin have done a brilliant job to remain independent and this AMG engine deal secures this even more for the future. So three cheers to Dave Richards and all at Aston Martin for keeping the company in a healthy state-all good news for UK PLC too!
I wonder if AMG might take on some Aston people to train up to build the engines so you open up the engine bay to see the name of Herr Arthur Tompkins or some such. Mercedes Benz are able to invest astronomical sums in engine technology and Aston Martin are not. For the size of the company Aston Martin have done a brilliant job to remain independent and this AMG engine deal secures this even more for the future. So three cheers to Dave Richards and all at Aston Martin for keeping the company in a healthy state-all good news for UK PLC too!
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