0-60, where will it end?
Discussion
Shadows said:
J4CKO said:
My wife could probably handle it better than most of us on here, mainly as she woudltn be hooning, trying to make progress or anything else, she woudl have a vague awareness that it has more power and find that pleasing but just in the context of it not being frustrating like the Citroen C1, she knows the galaxy we have performs better and she cant comprehend anything faster than her old 850 T5, she uses the acceleration up to the point to get to a sensible road speed that she is comfortable with, has the idea its sort of fun but not that it is the be all and end all.
What I am getting at, for most, its means to an end, they dont drive round looking for opportunities to use all the available power or go faster round corners, a good driver is not necessarily a petrol head, in fact I think the petrolhead thing takes a decent driver and perhaps causes the propensity to bite of more than we can chew, especially for those that have been in some racing cars and think they have "mad skillz".
I think if we could harness the interest level of petrolheads and the immunity to getting carried away of non petrolheads, that would be a good combination, sadly, a lot of the public are the reverse.
I much agree with the sentiment, the other half isn't bothered about power in a mad Clarkson sort of way like I am. But with cars going the way they are (Turbocharge everything), more torque pushed further down to give sensation of speed causes slightly unpredictable behaviour.. Because it's a selling point, the line between having a car to drive normally and going crazy is becoming fine as you'd have to upshift at 1500RPM in mine to be in any way sensible. Which at junctions, joining motorways etc. you need more power but I much prefer the linearity curve of the ISF for sensible driving. What I am getting at, for most, its means to an end, they dont drive round looking for opportunities to use all the available power or go faster round corners, a good driver is not necessarily a petrol head, in fact I think the petrolhead thing takes a decent driver and perhaps causes the propensity to bite of more than we can chew, especially for those that have been in some racing cars and think they have "mad skillz".
I think if we could harness the interest level of petrolheads and the immunity to getting carried away of non petrolheads, that would be a good combination, sadly, a lot of the public are the reverse.
On the roads I like to have a little fun when the roads are clear the conditions are right and never speed, just knowing what cars are capable of in normal day to day driving makes me think.. Getting out at a busy roundabout, out of a junction, joining motorways etc. people will use the power if they have it.
If I want to have real fun, I take it to a track when I have a couple of hundred spare for new tyres. Some people, not that inclined.
Edited by Shadows on Tuesday 30th July 16:51
I think recognising our mindset and not getting too carried away with it is how we should all be.
300bhp/ton said:
Bad road design it might be. But I honestly don't believe it is dangerous for a 100hp car and I'm willing to bet each week 1000's of low powered cars negotiate it perfectly fine.
"Unleashing a launch" as you say at such a junction, sounds like complete stupidity and has little to do with age or length of time you've spent driving.
Come on mate, have a bit of common sense.. Launching to join a flowing motorway if more than safe if done right, especially when cars are stood still waiting for a break because they can't get to speed fast enough to enter the motorway. There's been enough accident's round that part to say it's not as safe as you for some weird reason seem to believe. "Unleashing a launch" as you say at such a junction, sounds like complete stupidity and has little to do with age or length of time you've spent driving.
300bhp/ton said:
When does what end? Common sense, or just licensing people to drive who shouldn't be? The actual performance of the car however shouldn't really be the decider.
Simple equation for you: Faster cars X more idiot's = more potential danger.300bhp/ton said:
But is not the most common turbo setup. Indeed many petrol turbo's don't even boost until 3000-3500rpm. Although I admit this is changing with modern setups.
But lets not forget the Yanks have been driving cars offering up 300-400lb ft of torque from 1500rpm since the 1960's. So it's not exactly a new thing.
I never said it was, what's your point?But lets not forget the Yanks have been driving cars offering up 300-400lb ft of torque from 1500rpm since the 1960's. So it's not exactly a new thing.
300bhp/ton said:
So how did you get that experience? Was it by not driving powerful cars?
It is, but I'd like to believe I'm not an idiot with it.300bhp/ton said:
A 135i or 335i I see in abundance on the road, been sat behind a couple of roundabouts in the wet when they've nearly flung themselves into a tree.
I've never seen anything like this. Not in normal use. I did see a diesel van misjudge a corner about a month ago and drive into the inside verge. Does that count? 
Some people aye!..
Edited by Shadows on Tuesday 30th July 17:41
swerni said:
You use all Porches as your bench mark for fast, when only very few are.
Bit touchy aren't you
Blame 300 Bit touchy aren't you
.. Sorry if I came a across that way, just using mine as a benchmark because it can be a bit of a handful even though I've driven cars which would dwarf it every which way on paper..Scuffers said:
McSam said:
Scuffers - that's bloody quick for an Elise, I'd project it on to 0-60mph in low threes.. 
no chance!it basically runs out of horsepower, the 0-64 feet time is down to grip and lack of weight, after that it's all about power
What it does show though is std road cars tyres (and the PZero's on the original Elise were shocking bad tyres) can easily exceed 1.1G in the right environment.
I was working from the idea that very good braking in a sports car with good tyres might see 1.2g, and said that the 1.13g average of the Veyron is therefore close to the maximum you can get from road tyres. You could probably manage 1.3 on the very finest new OEM rubber, a good surface and a hot day.
And yes, PH is amazing for diversity
Captain Muppet said:
My apologies if I replied to your post out of context.
I park on a gravel drive, AO48s pick up stones and they are OEM fit road legal tyres. Some standard fit OEM motorcylce tyres are stickier than AO48s, and I'm sure other car tyres are too.
I have no actual data as to whether the effect is significant. I'd love to read some if anyone has anything.
No worries - I just hoped you weren't using it to suggest a massive grass roller-type tyre that covered the whole rear track would be ideal! I suppose data on how this sort of stickiness affects things would be very hard to find, as it's the result of a soft, grippy tyre that clearly has a higher adhesion coefficient anyway, so how you'd determine which effect was doing which thing is beyond me.I park on a gravel drive, AO48s pick up stones and they are OEM fit road legal tyres. Some standard fit OEM motorcylce tyres are stickier than AO48s, and I'm sure other car tyres are too.
I have no actual data as to whether the effect is significant. I'd love to read some if anyone has anything.
Perhaps the difference in maximum adhesion between a standing start (ie, with slight "gluing") and a rolling launch (that doesn't let the tyres stick to the surface) would tell us.
Anyway, apologies for being on topic
Shadows said:
I'll take this previous road as an Example, A638 Doncaster straight onto the A1. You have approximately a 100 FT run after a steep corner to get up to speed with flowing motorway traffic, in this scenario I'd say it's dangerous to have a 100HP car. But in the wrong hands an excessively powerful car can be more dangerous. It's one of the few places unleashing a launch is needed..
Yes, I regularly find myself struggling up hills like this in my Panda 100HP, praying I can slipstream someone in order to get safely on to the carriageway.
richb77 said:
FFS.
Can we have a post warning sign that shows up when 300 is trying to teach his granny to suck eggs?
I seem to spend more and more time trying to filter out the lectures.
I'm afraid that 300 is spot on in this instance. To suggest that "the little woman" couldn't possibly handle the deeply macho Lexus seems astonishingly patronising. I wonder how much of it is to do with the passenger...Can we have a post warning sign that shows up when 300 is trying to teach his granny to suck eggs?
I seem to spend more and more time trying to filter out the lectures.
My partner has no Interest in performance cars and drives a diesel Golf. I've no doubt she could cope with it, she'd simply drive it at a speed she's comfortable with.
Ari said:
I'm afraid that 300 is spot on in this instance. To suggest that "the little woman" couldn't possibly handle the deeply macho Lexus seems astonishingly patronising. I wonder how much of it is to do with the passenger...
My partner has no Interest in performance cars and drives a diesel Golf. I've no doubt she could cope with it, she'd simply drive it at a speed she's comfortable with.
My god, we like being holier than thou don't we? She's not used to the car, not that she couldn't handle it. But take it whatever way you want...My partner has no Interest in performance cars and drives a diesel Golf. I've no doubt she could cope with it, she'd simply drive it at a speed she's comfortable with.
It's hilarious how people break down to context tactic's when they can't get there point across.. Flex that intelligence HUH!..
Edited by Shadows on Tuesday 30th July 20:17
Biker's Nemesis said:
It'd be like "step aside my little sweetheart, don't you know I have previous F1 experience and can post competitive time around a racetrack", this rep mobile will be far to much for you top handle with your little hands and feet and pretty little head".
Say it in a Barry White voice and I'm all yours :P..
Shadows said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
It'd be like "step aside my little sweetheart, don't you know I have previous F1 experience and can post competitive time around a racetrack", this rep mobile will be far to much for you top handle with your little hands and feet and pretty little head".
Say it in a Barry White voice and I'm all yours :P..McSam said:
adly not! We dealt with this one somewhere else the other week, but the simple answer is that rubber doesn't help, because rubber alone doesn't do anything. You need rubber with weight on it, and the product of the rubber's stickiness and the weight pressing it into the road is what gives you the maximum sustainable drive force. Because of this, adding more rubber just spreads the same weight over a wider area, so the net available "grip" is the same.
The reason 4WD helps is because, without it, you have two tyres that are taking some of the vertical load, but not using the grip that gives them to drive the car. Four-wheel-drive means you use all of the car's weight to press the driven tyres down, thus maximising the available traction. Adding more tyres would still only use the same 100% of vehicle weight to give grip. See what I mean?
So what we need is extra downforce (from 0mph) without extra weight (thereby avoiding ever more monstrous power outputs) - fan car The reason 4WD helps is because, without it, you have two tyres that are taking some of the vertical load, but not using the grip that gives them to drive the car. Four-wheel-drive means you use all of the car's weight to press the driven tyres down, thus maximising the available traction. Adding more tyres would still only use the same 100% of vehicle weight to give grip. See what I mean?
Or, an alternative method of propulsion that doesn't drive the wheels, like rocket or jet propulsion - not going to happen in a road car.
xRIEx said:
So what we need is extra downforce (from 0mph) without extra weight (thereby avoiding ever more monstrous power outputs) - fan car
Or, an alternative method of propulsion that doesn't drive the wheels, like rocket or jet propulsion - not going to happen in a road car.
Absolutely - either would be awesome Or, an alternative method of propulsion that doesn't drive the wheels, like rocket or jet propulsion - not going to happen in a road car.
as I wrote the line earlier about meaningful downforce being impossible below 60mph, I was thinking of this:
I only wrote impossible because we're talking road cars, and I can only imagine the tip of the impracticality iceberg of using a suction fan on the road
Its fast getting to a time where 0-60 etc will become irrelevant a wise man once said its not "how fast you go" but "how you go fast" I mean im sure diesel cars can now beat supercars of a decade and a half ago but which will leave the biggest impression? Also i wonder if cars will get too fast? (can't believed I typed that)
I mean I own a mk 5 gti and I now cycle to work as I didnt enjoy sitting in traffic and found it to be a waste of a car. I think theres fun to be had in approaching the limits of a car. Which is why I now find time to look for empty road and really enjoy a car. When a car becomes so fast you must wonder how many people can truly get close to the limits of their cars safely on public roads. Few I doubt can.
I mean I own a mk 5 gti and I now cycle to work as I didnt enjoy sitting in traffic and found it to be a waste of a car. I think theres fun to be had in approaching the limits of a car. Which is why I now find time to look for empty road and really enjoy a car. When a car becomes so fast you must wonder how many people can truly get close to the limits of their cars safely on public roads. Few I doubt can.
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