Audi make too many cars!!
Discussion
Monkeylegend said:
veevee said:
Absolutely baffled why they build so many other cars for non existent niches, but the A2 is still missing from the lineup? Probably the most innovative and practical car they've ever built, surely a new one would sell by the bucketload?
A niche doesn't exist until somebody creates it, that's what the car manufacturers are good at doing. They will only then continue to exist if there is a demand. No demand no niche. There is no such thing as a non existent niche.The reality is people are buying Audi's in droves whether PH likes it or not. This suggests there is more to Audi's then people on here realise, or more to the point are prepared to give them credit for.
sly fox said:
Not really. No-one needs a Q5 at all, marketing and sales have created a market for it. The choice didn't 'exist', they created a new market and product line. Well done to them.
Audi marketing et al have done a fantastic job in making people think that SUVs are 'better' than equivalent estate models. And the public loves a bit of good marketing. Does a q3/5/7 do anything dramatically better than the equivalent a4/a6 estate? Again, not really.
And most people love to think they can get one up on the neighbours by buying a 'premium' model.
Easy finance has much to answer for, most people just look at the monthly cost rather than thinking- do i really want a small jacked up estate car that is costing £30k+ OTR?
Range diversification doesn't always work though. Look at the BMW 5 series GT. They just whooshed off the forecourts didn't they?
I see your point, but i read that and assumed that that wAudi marketing et al have done a fantastic job in making people think that SUVs are 'better' than equivalent estate models. And the public loves a bit of good marketing. Does a q3/5/7 do anything dramatically better than the equivalent a4/a6 estate? Again, not really.
And most people love to think they can get one up on the neighbours by buying a 'premium' model.
Easy finance has much to answer for, most people just look at the monthly cost rather than thinking- do i really want a small jacked up estate car that is costing £30k+ OTR?
Range diversification doesn't always work though. Look at the BMW 5 series GT. They just whooshed off the forecourts didn't they?
ker next door to you just bought a white q5 for his missus and it's pissed you off somewhat...Zod said:
What does the bold sentence mean then? 
The M cars don't look very different, particularly the M5 (that's part of its appeal to many buyers). They feel very different to drive. They don't feel like a car designed from ground up as a sports car, because that's not what they are.
Zod is correct on this one kambites. The M cars don't look very different, particularly the M5 (that's part of its appeal to many buyers). They feel very different to drive. They don't feel like a car designed from ground up as a sports car, because that's not what they are.
No single M specific part can be had with a non M model. Basically, put it this way....
The M cars look similar to the other standard models, it pretty much ends there. The standard models are available with different trim and engines but everything else is the same and AVAILABLE THROUGH THE VARIOUS TRIM LEVELS AND NO ONE PART OF THOSE MODELS IS BESPOKE.
That's the difference.
veevee said:
Monkeylegend said:
veevee said:
Absolutely baffled why they build so many other cars for non existent niches, but the A2 is still missing from the lineup? Probably the most innovative and practical car they've ever built, surely a new one would sell by the bucketload?
A niche doesn't exist until somebody creates it, that's what the car manufacturers are good at doing. They will only then continue to exist if there is a demand. No demand no niche. There is no such thing as a non existent niche.The reality is people are buying Audi's in droves whether PH likes it or not. This suggests there is more to Audi's then people on here realise, or more to the point are prepared to give them credit for.
AJB said:
Kell said:
AJB said:
Kell said:
I was thinking more like 80s Fords and Vauxhalls. I knew whether or not a MKIII Cavalier was following me or if it was an Astra or Carlton/Senator. Similarly, Fiestas, Escorts, Sierras and Granadas might have all had a Ford badge on, but they looked like they'd been designed by different people.
Mk1 Cavalier and Chevette?Mk5 Cortina and Mk2 Granada?
Facelift Sierra and Mk3 Granada?
But, if you want launched in 80s then add Mk2 Cavalier (81-88) and Carlton (82-86).
Family resemblance from car manufacturers has been around for a long time - it's not a new thing!
See an A4 saloon from a distance and unless you know your cars inside out, then it could easily be an A6 or, with its recent introduction, an A3 saloon.
I don't think I would ever have mistaken an Orion for a Sierra Sapphire.
veevee said:
Absolutely baffled why they build so many other cars for non existent niches, but the A2 is still missing from the lineup? Probably the most innovative and practical car they've ever built, surely a new one would sell by the bucketload?
I like the A2 and still see them running about, the owners seem to be happy to hold on to them - but I'm wondering about your statement - what did the A2 offer that that isn't catered for in the current Audi range? jhonn said:
I like the A2 and still see them running about, the owners seem to be happy to hold on to them - but I'm wondering about your statement - what did the A2 offer that that isn't catered for in the current Audi range?
A2 - Audi's best offering in recent years. Lightweight, individual looks, premium cabin for a small car. Short & narrow body, E38Ross said:
Some Gump said:
Zod said:
What has BMW become?
The most popular fleet car in the uk. Terrible, really.
Indeed. I bet bmw are really, really worried about their record sales figures
Clearly the fact they make too many cars has impacted them so terribly
Don't laugh so loud, we have been on a economic roller coaster for years - volume has its own problems.
Mermaid said:
A2 - Audi's best offering in recent years. Lightweight, individual looks, premium cabin for a small car. Short & narrow body,
Thanks - makes me wonder if Audi have done their market research and concluded that there's no current market for a replacement, or maybe if they brought out a small car that was truly innovative again that it may make the rest of the range look a bit 'samey'; it wouldn't 'fit' with the current line-up. E38Ross said:
Some Gump said:
Zod said:
What has BMW become?
The most popular fleet car in the uk. Terrible, really.Indeed. I bet bmw are really, really worried about their record sales figures
Clearly the fact they make too many cars has impacted them so terribly
Popularity and high sales figures = BMW are boring
Kell said:
I don't want to get into a huge argument about this, but you can't tell me that it wasn't easier for ME to tell the difference between models from one marque in the 80s more easily than I can today. I know they all had a family resemblance, but a lot of the differentiating features from particular models have gone.
See an A4 saloon from a distance and unless you know your cars inside out, then it could easily be an A6 or, with its recent introduction, an A3 saloon.
I don't think I would ever have mistaken an Orion for a Sierra Sapphire.
No, sorry, I wasn't trying to tell you what you can tell the difference between! And I completely agree that modern Audis are all pretty hard to tell apart.See an A4 saloon from a distance and unless you know your cars inside out, then it could easily be an A6 or, with its recent introduction, an A3 saloon.
I don't think I would ever have mistaken an Orion for a Sierra Sapphire.
But I do think that most makes have had times over the years where their family resemblance is really strong and some if not all models are hard to tell apart. And I don't particularly think it's a bad thing when that is the case.
It seems that there are often posts saying that recently car designers have become lazy, and that these days brand X's models are all photocopies at different percentages. But I'm still not convinced it's any more true today than it was in the past.
I think cars I'm interested in are generally easy to tell apart even when there's a strong family line, but ones I'm not often aren't, regardless of their age.
AJB said:
Kell said:
I don't want to get into a huge argument about this, but you can't tell me that it wasn't easier for ME to tell the difference between models from one marque in the 80s more easily than I can today. I know they all had a family resemblance, but a lot of the differentiating features from particular models have gone.
See an A4 saloon from a distance and unless you know your cars inside out, then it could easily be an A6 or, with its recent introduction, an A3 saloon.
I don't think I would ever have mistaken an Orion for a Sierra Sapphire.
No, sorry, I wasn't trying to tell you what you can tell the difference between! And I completely agree that modern Audis are all pretty hard to tell apart.See an A4 saloon from a distance and unless you know your cars inside out, then it could easily be an A6 or, with its recent introduction, an A3 saloon.
I don't think I would ever have mistaken an Orion for a Sierra Sapphire.
But I do think that most makes have had times over the years where their family resemblance is really strong and some if not all models are hard to tell apart. And I don't particularly think it's a bad thing when that is the case.
It seems that there are often posts saying that recently car designers have become lazy, and that these days brand X's models are all photocopies at different percentages. But I'm still not convinced it's any more true today than it was in the past.
I think cars I'm interested in are generally easy to tell apart even when there's a strong family line, but ones I'm not often aren't, regardless of their age.
the original 5 series
hardly worlds apart. Same can be said for the 7 series of the era. as well as the next gen E30/E28/E32 until things began to change a bit, the E34 looked very similar to the E32 but the E36 changed quite a lot, and the E38 looked rather different as well but the later models of the E39 and E46 had components of them both in.
in fact, the latter generation where Bangle came in changed them dramatically, with the E60 and E65 models looking so different, they looked more different then than ever before. Now, they've gone back to more how they used to be, which i think is a bit of a shame.
i know that's all related to bmw but it's just an example, i don't think other manufacturers are massively different. look at Mercedes for example (e.g. the 190e vs the 300e, lots of their cars look so similar from the front.
e21/e12/e23
e30/e28/e32
e36/e34/e38
e46/e39/e65
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