RE: McLaren P1 Nurburgring lap time
Discussion
turbobungle said:
No I havn't driven them but the best formula to make a car handle better and go faster has always been to lose weight, not add it, do you not agree? If you don't, why not ask a certain Mr G.Murray or the late Mr C.Chapman. They have not added all this weight and technology to improve the driving experience, they have added it to improve the fuel efficiency (although probably not in the real world).
that maybe the case with the poker but not the LaF or P1.
Agreed, definitely more so in the Porsche, but surely less weight at all times is better than a bit of extra power for brief periods? I know what I'd prefer, its a bit like comparing having the extra power and weight of say, a 997 Turbo, against the lighter less powerful GT3, the GT3 will lap most circuits quicker and for longer and will also be more fun.
turbobungle said:
No I havn't driven them but the best formula to make a car handle better and go faster has always been to lose weight, not add it, do you not agree? If you don't, why not ask a certain Mr G.Murray or the late Mr C.Chapman. They have not added all this weight and technology to improve the driving experience, they have added it to improve the fuel efficiency (although probably not in the real world).
If each of these cars saved the weight of their hybrid systems, they would weigh less giving better cornering and braking as well as being easier on tyres and every other component of the car meaning they could lap for longer and they would no doubt have a better power-to-weight ratio making them quicker as well. The only downside being that they wouldn't now get a good score on the emissions test. To me (and I would imagine most other petrolheads) that would make them better cars.
Why you haven't been snapped up by McLaren or Ferrari is a mystery.If each of these cars saved the weight of their hybrid systems, they would weigh less giving better cornering and braking as well as being easier on tyres and every other component of the car meaning they could lap for longer and they would no doubt have a better power-to-weight ratio making them quicker as well. The only downside being that they wouldn't now get a good score on the emissions test. To me (and I would imagine most other petrolheads) that would make them better cars.
Edited by turbobungle on Wednesday 23 October 12:38
stevesingo said:
And for that reason, Ferrari will not let journalists use any Ferrari customer car for road test articles. The car's unknown providence is cited as the reason, i.e it is not rigged!
You what?http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
motor mad said:
I wonder if Italian car forums are as skeptical about Ferrari as British forums are about British companies?
I live less than 5 miles from where they make these cars. McLaren use local companies to provide services that go in to making these awesome machines. That makes me proud.
What I find ironic is that Ron made mention of how he was proud to keep manufacturing in Britain, yet all the P1's will be LHD, allegedly. I live less than 5 miles from where they make these cars. McLaren use local companies to provide services that go in to making these awesome machines. That makes me proud.
sleep envy said:
stevesingo said:
And for that reason, Ferrari will not let journalists use any Ferrari customer car for road test articles. The car's unknown providence is cited as the reason, i.e it is not rigged!
You what?http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...
motor mad said:
I wonder if Italian car forums are as skeptical about Ferrari as British forums are about British companies?
I suspect they are. I used to work with an Italian guy, big F1 fan so obviously a huge Ferrari fan also. We were having a discussion about F1 when he told me that Italy is the real home of F1 as they provide more teams and engineering than any other country.
He really thought that only McLaren was based in the UK and refused to believe me about any of the other teams never mind the suppliers.
The Vambo said:
After that love letter to Ferrari you posted above, how could you possibly judge who is biased?
And it would be a very foolish man to have an argument on the basis of any manufacturers quoted weight figures, especially the proven optimistic numbers that Ferrari release.
Car & Drivers Enzo was 300kg heavier than quoted.
Really?! That's nuts! Source?And it would be a very foolish man to have an argument on the basis of any manufacturers quoted weight figures, especially the proven optimistic numbers that Ferrari release.
Car & Drivers Enzo was 300kg heavier than quoted.
Digger said:
What I find ironic is that Ron made mention of how he was proud to keep manufacturing in Britain, yet all the P1's will be LHD, allegedly.
If you find that ironic, then you have a worse understanding the the meaning of the word than that screechy bint who wrote a song about thing that were not really ironic.However, If he built them Norther Ireland......
sleep envy said:
FNE plate.. you might find that is a factory car and not a customer one.British Beef said:
"Calibration and final tuning" to deliver the official lap time.... I would love to know what this comprises of!!!
Im sure all the manufacturers do it, but with turbo engines turning the boost up and changing the engine mapping for a "qualifying lap" must be relatively easy to do.
Forget the time around the Ring its the time they decided to do it that counts, any new car fast around the Ring makes it an instant seller. I this case don't even think a lap time is needed that P1 is just that fast it kind of makes anything else irrelevant. Im sure all the manufacturers do it, but with turbo engines turning the boost up and changing the engine mapping for a "qualifying lap" must be relatively easy to do.
garypotter said:
Yes BMW supplied the engine in the infamous Mac F1, 6.1cc V12 N/a, 618bhp and 586 lb torque, very imrpessive figures considering the age it was built and designed.
It was 627bhp and 479 lb-ft of torque.[quote]I also heard rumours that some of the engines in the GTR were pushing a few more ponies that the official figures.
turbobungle said:
All three would be much better cars without the Hybrid tech.
In the case of the P1 you're wrong - it's hybrid boost is used to provide immediate torque at low RPMs and eliminate any effects of turbo lag. Taking advantage of that low end boost allows them to fit larger turbos which create more high RPM power. To say the car would be better without is rather ignorant. McLaren have been adamant that it would not be and you can be sure in this competitive space they have done all the simulations before settling on the use of a hybrid powerplant. >8^)
ER
[quote=Peloton;)25]
In the case of the P1 you're wrong - it's hybrid boost is used to provide immediate torque at low RPMs and eliminate any effects of turbo lag. Taking advantage of that low end boost allows them to fit larger turbos which create more high RPM power. To say the car would be better without is rather ignorant. McLaren have been adamant that it would not be and you can be sure in this competitive space they have done all the simulations before settling on the use of a hybrid powerplant.
>8^)
ER
[/quote]
Well thanks for putting me right about the P1, I must admit I've not read up too much on it as the car does not appeal to me. Consider me educated. I'm still right on the 918 though
As you seem to be in the know, can this Hybrid boost be used at all times? Is it there for example, if you floor the throttle? What 'activates' it? Is it something that is available for your whole drive? Ie. would you be able to lap a circuit for, say, half an hour with it being available for use the whole time or does it 'run out'? Also, it doesn't sound like it adds massive weight like the 918 system, how much does it add? Thanks
In the case of the P1 you're wrong - it's hybrid boost is used to provide immediate torque at low RPMs and eliminate any effects of turbo lag. Taking advantage of that low end boost allows them to fit larger turbos which create more high RPM power. To say the car would be better without is rather ignorant. McLaren have been adamant that it would not be and you can be sure in this competitive space they have done all the simulations before settling on the use of a hybrid powerplant.
>8^)
ER
[/quote]
Well thanks for putting me right about the P1, I must admit I've not read up too much on it as the car does not appeal to me. Consider me educated. I'm still right on the 918 though
As you seem to be in the know, can this Hybrid boost be used at all times? Is it there for example, if you floor the throttle? What 'activates' it? Is it something that is available for your whole drive? Ie. would you be able to lap a circuit for, say, half an hour with it being available for use the whole time or does it 'run out'? Also, it doesn't sound like it adds massive weight like the 918 system, how much does it add? Thanks
Edited by turbobungle on Wednesday 23 October 17:21
Edited by turbobungle on Wednesday 23 October 17:21
turbobungle said:
Well thanks for putting me right about the P1, I must admit I've not read up too much on it as the car does not appeal to me. Consider me educated. I'm still right on the 918 though
You might discover you are wrong about the 918 as well. Despite not being turbocharged there is still the benefit of instant thrust at basically 0 RPM from an electric motor. Additionally Porsche route some of that hybrid juice forward to an electric motor that powers the front wheels up to 143 mph, effectively making the car 4WD at speeds where it is best used. Again, I would not be too quick to discount these hypercars with their hybrid technology built in.turbobungle said:
As you seem to be in the know, can this Hybrid boost be used at all times? Is it there for example, if you floor the throttle? What 'activates' it? Is it something that is available for your whole drive? Ie. would you be able to lap a circuit for, say, half an hour with it being available for use the whole time or does it 'run out'? Also, it doesn't sound like it adds massive weight like the 918 system, how much does it add? Thanks
Have not had the pleasure of a drive or ride in the P1 yet so that will limit some of my comments. There were a couple of great posts on McLarenLife by a future owner who spent time questioning the engineers at the factory. His information offered a detailed description of how it all works but I don't have time to find them at the moment and don't want to paraphrase too much based only on my recollection. McLaren shared that in a full lap of the Ring the car uses the capacity of the battery twice based on cumulative discharge and recharge rates. The electric motor built inside the P1s engine block is constantly available to recharge the battery pack during part-throttle or off-throttle situations utilizing excess torque from the engine. IIRC the car can also recharge its battery pack at idle in a 10 minute period. It seems there could be some rare situations where you might be able to deplete the battery completely leaving you with only the 727 hp offered by the petrol engine, but in theory that would seem to be quite tough. There are not many places in the world that afford more than 100 seconds of running at max throttle - covering ground at over 200 mph gets you anywhere in a hurry.
Weight of the battery pack is the only figure McLaren have published so far. They list it as 96kg (or 212 lbs), including with that figure that it has the greatest power density of any battery pack on the road today. There would be some additional weight for the electric motor as well as the cabling to the battery pack but given the close positioning of McLaren's hybrid system components that would be fairly limited.
I'll try to add some more details that were shared when I locate the posts that included it.
>8^)
ER
xRIEx said:
boxerTen said:
Ferrari is however comprehensively eclipsed by BMW - for a state of the art 4-cylinder engine see the S1000RR motorbike. 1 litre. 193bhp. No typo there 
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And Ducati was getting 197(.3) out of 989cc 3 years before the SRR..Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff