RE: Jaguar F-Pace: Driven
Discussion
TurboHatchback said:
DonkeyApple said:
TurboHatchback said:
Because if they weren't (designed to look like they go off road) they would be lower and hence lighter, faster, more efficient and handle much better. There is no engineering sense jacking a car up in the air apart from to allow it to traverse off-road terrain. I like 4x4s but there is no disputing they are heavy, thirsty, slow and handle like cruise liners, why you would engineer in all those downsides with none of the capability confuses me.
Still the customer gets what the customer wants and apparently they want these. I won't be joining them in the queue.
Ease of access for both passengers and luggage are both good engineering sense. Increased line of sight means you can travel faster as you can see ahead further. That's good sense. Still the customer gets what the customer wants and apparently they want these. I won't be joining them in the queue.
Ability to tow more, stow more and clear water better. These are engineering positives.
As most people are just trundling from a to b then the fact that they would struggle to pull 5g in a corner or hit 200mph isn't really a loss. And I very much doubt that the typical consumer would notice any form of significant handling loss compared to the comparative hatchback or estate car. Mpg clearly isn't a huge cost concern. Nether is handling and they aren't slow.
What's happening here is you are confusing modern SUVs with traditional off-road 4x4s
I do confuse proper 4x4s with pretend ones, to me they make about as much sense as a diesel Ferrari or a bus with only 4 seats.
jamieduff1981 said:
It's a bit like saying anyone who buys this:
is an idiot because they should have just bought this which doesn't come with all the weight penalty and handling compromises of that lardy blue thing above:
TBH I can't really see the point of the M3 either. It's a fabulous piece of engineering for sure but I don't think I'd get much enjoyment out of it, I'd rather a 330i and the Lotus or an old MR2.is an idiot because they should have just bought this which doesn't come with all the weight penalty and handling compromises of that lardy blue thing above:
I don't know what sort of roads you lot are driving down, short of the occasional flood I've never come across anything on a tarmac road that any sensible regular car couldn't deal with. Before anyone says the word snow, big 'SUVs' on huge wide summer road tyres are simply dreadful on it. Even proper 4x4s with proper AT tyres are dreadful on compacted snow and ice, they're only good in deep powder.
When it comes to putting stuff into cars, slinging kids in, getting elderly in etc a higher car is catagorically easier and more convenient.
seefarr said:
DonkeyApple said:
seefarr said:
Then why the raised ride height, if not to clear off-road obstacles?
Ease of use and superior line of site. DonkeyApple said:
TurboHatchback said:
DonkeyApple said:
TurboHatchback said:
Because if they weren't (designed to look like they go off road) they would be lower and hence lighter, faster, more efficient and handle much better. There is no engineering sense jacking a car up in the air apart from to allow it to traverse off-road terrain. I like 4x4s but there is no disputing they are heavy, thirsty, slow and handle like cruise liners, why you would engineer in all those downsides with none of the capability confuses me.
Still the customer gets what the customer wants and apparently they want these. I won't be joining them in the queue.
Ease of access for both passengers and luggage are both good engineering sense. Increased line of sight means you can travel faster as you can see ahead further. That's good sense. Still the customer gets what the customer wants and apparently they want these. I won't be joining them in the queue.
Ability to tow more, stow more and clear water better. These are engineering positives.
As most people are just trundling from a to b then the fact that they would struggle to pull 5g in a corner or hit 200mph isn't really a loss. And I very much doubt that the typical consumer would notice any form of significant handling loss compared to the comparative hatchback or estate car. Mpg clearly isn't a huge cost concern. Nether is handling and they aren't slow.
What's happening here is you are confusing modern SUVs with traditional off-road 4x4s
I do confuse proper 4x4s with pretend ones, to me they make about as much sense as a diesel Ferrari or a bus with only 4 seats.
jamieduff1981 said:
It's a bit like saying anyone who buys this:
is an idiot because they should have just bought this which doesn't come with all the weight penalty and handling compromises of that lardy blue thing above:
TBH I can't really see the point of the M3 either. It's a fabulous piece of engineering for sure but I don't think I'd get much enjoyment out of it, I'd rather a 330i and the Lotus or an old MR2.is an idiot because they should have just bought this which doesn't come with all the weight penalty and handling compromises of that lardy blue thing above:
I don't know what sort of roads you lot are driving down, short of the occasional flood I've never come across anything on a tarmac road that any sensible regular car couldn't deal with. Before anyone says the word snow, big 'SUVs' on huge wide summer road tyres are simply dreadful on it. Even proper 4x4s with proper AT tyres are dreadful on compacted snow and ice, they're only good in deep powder.
When it comes to putting stuff into cars, slinging kids in, getting elderly in etc a higher car is catagorically easier and more convenient.
jamieduff1981 said:
What I'm hearing is that you are familiar with your own very limited set of circumstances and openly admit to being unable to relate to anyone elses' and therefore their choice of cars. Ergo, anyone who doesn't buy what you would buy based on the roads you drive on must be stupid.
The whole point of a thread like this is expressing and discussing opinions on the product featured. My opinion (<- important word) is that it's most likely an excellent product for the genre and market, just the whole genre holds no appeal whatsoever and by compromising the core Jaguar values to fill this (very profitable) niche they devalue the brand. Others are welcome to their opinions, it is bizarre how bothered people get when others dislike or disparage their choice of product though.Every car is a compromise at the end of the day and we all pick that which best suits our wants and needs. If I was a rich housewife in the Cotsworlds who needed to drive children to school, tow ponies around and look good for the neighbors then this would be spot on. For a youngish single bloke who likes driving there's nothing here to appeal.
TurboHatchback said:
The whole point of a thread like this is expressing and discussing opinions on the product featured. My opinion (<- important word) is that it's most likely an excellent product for the genre and market, just the whole genre holds no appeal whatsoever and by compromising the core Jaguar values to fill this (very profitable) niche they devalue the brand. Others are welcome to their opinions, it is bizarre how bothered people get when others dislike or disparage their choice of product though.
Every car is a compromise at the end of the day and we all pick that which best suits our wants and needs. If I was a rich housewife in the Cotsworlds who needed to drive children to school, tow ponies around and look good for the neighbors then this would be spot on. For a youngish single bloke who likes driving there's nothing here to appeal.
Once again you just make yourself sound like an ignorant, judgemental moron. Every car is a compromise at the end of the day and we all pick that which best suits our wants and needs. If I was a rich housewife in the Cotsworlds who needed to drive children to school, tow ponies around and look good for the neighbors then this would be spot on. For a youngish single bloke who likes driving there's nothing here to appeal.
gizlaroc said:
TurboHatchback said:
The whole point of a thread like this is expressing and discussing opinions on the product featured. My opinion (<- important word) is that it's most likely an excellent product for the genre and market, just the whole genre holds no appeal whatsoever and by compromising the core Jaguar values to fill this (very profitable) niche they devalue the brand. Others are welcome to their opinions, it is bizarre how bothered people get when others dislike or disparage their choice of product though.
Every car is a compromise at the end of the day and we all pick that which best suits our wants and needs. If I was a rich housewife in the Cotsworlds who needed to drive children to school, tow ponies around and look good for the neighbors then this would be spot on. For a youngish single bloke who likes driving there's nothing here to appeal.
Once again you just make yourself sound like an ignorant, judgemental moron. Every car is a compromise at the end of the day and we all pick that which best suits our wants and needs. If I was a rich housewife in the Cotsworlds who needed to drive children to school, tow ponies around and look good for the neighbors then this would be spot on. For a youngish single bloke who likes driving there's nothing here to appeal.
gizlaroc said:
TurboHatchback said:
If I was a rich housewife in the Cotsworlds who needed to drive children to school, tow ponies around and look good for the neighbors then this would be spot on.
Once again you just make yourself sound like an ignorant, judgemental moron. yet again the 'why do people like AWD cars' raises its head. Where we live the road are poorly surfaced, narrow and it is icy/snowy often. High visibility is preferred and whether it's just a personal preference the wife won't be without one now. she just feels safer in one. her choice.
Burwood said:
yet again the 'why do people like AWD cars' raises its head. Where we live the road are poorly surfaced, narrow and it is icy/snowy often. High visibility is preferred and whether it's just a personal preference the wife won't be without one now. she just feels safer in one. her choice.
You seem to be confusing AWD with SUV. Some F-paces are RWD, some XE/XF/XJ are AWD.scenario8 said:
Apologies if I sound like an old man stuck in the past but are we really suggesting "most" will be wearing 22 inch wheels? Or is that just internet hyperbole? That is truly bonkers if true. The affect on dynamics must be massive.
I wonder if the dynamics engineers considered the effect on dynamics? It's not the same as putting large aftermarket wheels on. Regardless of some opinions there are enough people in the world that like them to sell shed loads.
Porsche, who we all still think of a Sports Cars maker would have likely gone bankrupt without introducing the Cayene. They also produce more SUV's than sports cars now. Who'd have thought it, Porsche an SUV maker who also sell sports cars.........
Porsche, who we all still think of a Sports Cars maker would have likely gone bankrupt without introducing the Cayene. They also produce more SUV's than sports cars now. Who'd have thought it, Porsche an SUV maker who also sell sports cars.........
Burwood said:
im not confused-anyone who buys a 2wd version is bit of a dick.
Oookay. So that shoots your "high driving position" justification out of the water.Now, about the all-wheel drive. Does your posty drive something AWD with high ground clearance? Do you go for very long without daily postal deliveries?
Burwood said:
im not confused-anyone who buys a 2wd version is bit of a dick.
Well, I've been told that enough times to no longer be remotely offended. 
I'm going to play around with a Range Rover Classic this year removing the AWD and running it as RWD. By doing this it opens up a wider range of more modern and efficient gearboxes and drops an awful lot of weight. At the same time I'm toying with replacing some of the steel, non structural body parts with CF.
I think it'll make the car a lot lighter and a much more rapid fast road vehicle capable of over 30 mpg.
I reckon that if someone is buying a modern SUV purely for road use and to take advantage of the higher seating position and the ease of slinging things in then I don't see any need for AWD. I do think that AWD is a genetic throwback to earlier off-road vehicles which this type of car really has evolved well away from.
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