RE: Tesla Model S: PH Carpool

[AnotherClarkey]

fatboy b said:

It was a comparison to a car in the same market segment. It couuld be a 5-series, or A6 or similar. The point is is that the Tesla is £40K over it's worth.

The Tesla starts at 56k and lesser 5 series and A6's don't get close on performance. Where is the like-for-like comparison with a 40k price differential? (Considering also that the 'S' is a larger car)

[Srlister]

AnotherClarkey said:

At the end of the day I have zero desire to own an XFR but strong want for a model S.

+1

This the car version of Nokia Vs Apple, complete with no buttons.
Jaguar need to wake up sharpish, before they become like the fuel that powers them. Fossils!

[topless360]

I test drove the P85D last year but I felt it offered poor value given you'll need to carefully plan even 200 mile round trips. What do you do for 20 minutes at each service station stop? Whenever I stop at services it's for a loo break, 2 minutes and I'm on my way again. I just think there would be a lot of twiddling of thumbs with a Tesla.

Also the refinement levels weren't anywhere near that of rivals e.g. S Class, QP, 7 Series etc. The 0-60 (or more like 0-30) was impressive but as others have said, that would get boring fairly quickly. After 60mph it didn't feel particularly rapid.

I can see they are the future and may be suitable if you have a particular lifestyle and access to charging points, but what you're driving at the moment is merely a typewriter.

[fatboy b]

Srlister said:

AnotherClarkey said:

At the end of the day I have zero desire to own an XFR but strong want for a model S.

+1

This the car version of Nokia Vs Apple, complete with no buttons.
Jaguar need to wake up sharpish, before they become like the fuel that powers them. Fossils!

[fatboy b]

AnotherClarkey said:

fatboy b said:

It was a comparison to a car in the same market segment. It couuld be a 5-series, or A6 or similar. The point is is that the Tesla is £40K over it's worth.

The Tesla starts at 56k and lesser 5 series and A6's don't get close on performance. Where is the like-for-like comparison with a 40k price differential? (Considering also that the 'S' is a larger car)

Ok - the XFR is not available currenttly. The base S is £58K before any discounts, not £56K.
the base XF (example of the same market segment) is £33K before discounts

So there's £25K before you even add any options. And before you say the performance is nowhere near, normal people do not go around doing 0-60 all day - so that's irrelevant.

Edited by fatboy b on Tuesday 19th April 14:11

[kambites]

List prices have been largely irrelevant for years. I'd guess the majority of Teslas are bought on BiK company car schemes. I don't know how a basic Model-S compares to something like a 528i on that basis? I'd guess the Tesla is considerably cheaper?

If you're willing to drive a diesel it's probably less clear, but I'm not.

[AnotherClarkey]

fatboy b said:

Ok - the XFR is not available currenttly. The base S is £63K before any discounts, not £56K.
the base XF (example of the same market segment) is £33K before discounts

So there's £30K before you even add any options. And before you say the performance is nowhere near, normal people do not go around doing 0-60 all day - so that's irrelevant.

I notice that the base price had gone up a little since the facelift last week but it is £58300 before any incentives, not £63k.

I don't think that a base-spec dog slow diesel rattler of an XF is really comparable.

I would also contend that I and many normal people do go around between 0 and 60 90% of the time, so performance in that range is far more important to me thsn, say, 60 to 120.

Edited by AnotherClarkey on Tuesday 19th April 14:28

Edited by AnotherClarkey on Tuesday 19th April 14:28

[rodericb]

ORD said:

There must be something wrong with the Suburu

I have no interest in driving a Tesla (or any other huge saloon), but all the reviews from credible journalists are very lukewarm about its handling and say it has numb steering. None of that really matters in a motorway cruiser, which is why I think the Tesla makes sense (if at all) as a mile muncher.

+1

If one owns a current Subi STi and thinks a Model S is just as good handling wise is obviously not pushing the Subaru very hard at all and would probably quited sated with the handling of a base spec Impreza.

[Zod]

fatboy b said:

Mike_C said:

For me I was spending around £80-£90/week on fuel, I calculate that I will be spending around £8-£10/week on electricity - although as I said, I haven't actually noticed this in either electricity bill yet!

So you're saving about £13K over 3 years on fuel, but spent £40K more for the car than it's really worth (compared to an XFR - same market segment).

Sorry, but that still makes no sense to me, and then you have to factor in the extra planning for charging.

It's XJ-size, not XF-size.

[fatboy b]

Zod said:

fatboy b said:

Mike_C said:

For me I was spending around £80-£90/week on fuel, I calculate that I will be spending around £8-£10/week on electricity - although as I said, I haven't actually noticed this in either electricity bill yet!

So you're saving about £13K over 3 years on fuel, but spent £40K more for the car than it's really worth (compared to an XFR - same market segment).

Sorry, but that still makes no sense to me, and then you have to factor in the extra planning for charging.

It's XJ-size, not XF-size.

Probably sits in between really.

[David87]

Indeed, the base XF has a 161bhp Ingenium diesel and is smaller than the Model S. It's unfair to compare the two.

[counterofbeans]

Look, you Tesla owners have got to get rid of them because fatboy says they're no fking good

Which part of this are you not understanding?

[fatboy b]

AnotherClarkey said:

I notice that the base price had gone up a little since the facelift last week but it is £58300 before any incentives, not £63k.

I don't really think that a base-spec dog slow diesel rattler of an XF is really comparable.

I would also contend that I and many normal people do go around between 0 and 60 90% of the time, so performance in that range is far more important to me thsn, say, 60 to 120.

I had 4 wheel drive selected by mistake

[AC43]

kambites said:

If you're willing to drive a diesel it's probably less clear, but I'm not.

Funny.

Seriously, though, as someone who lives, works, walks, cycles and breathes in London I'm delighted every time a Tesla, i3 or Prius glides silently past.

(and for those of those who maintain until they are blue in the face that diesels don't stink I took my kids cycling in Richmond Park the other day and every third or fourth diesel that rattled past also STANK!)

[fatboy b]

counterofbeans said:

Look, you Tesla owners have got to get rid of them because fatboy says they're no fking good

Which part of this are you not understanding?

at last - thankyou

[David87]

counterofbeans said:

Look, you Tesla owners have got to get rid of them because fatboy says they're no fking good

Which part of this are you not understanding?

I'm test driving a Model S tomorrow. Not sure which model yet, but I'll aim for the fastest one. I'm on the list for a Model 3 (for my wife, as a family car for her to drive into things with at parking speeds and ferry the kids about) but the more I read about the Model S, the more I fancy one for myself in the meantime. I'll report back once I've had a go!

[Mosdef]

David87 said:

Indeed, the base XF has a 161bhp Ingenium diesel and is smaller than the Model S. It's unfair to compare the two.

And costs £32k before negotiating.

At £60k I think the Tesla makes sense and on a price point of view competes with low end 7 series, A8s and to a lesser extent the S Class. They all leave the Tesla far, far behind in so far as refinement and luxury are concerned but I don't think anyone buys a Tesla on that basis. I can see the appeal of Tesla against any one of the above, but it's horses for courses.

Once the Tesla gets to £90k+, I really don't understand the buying rationale at that price point. I'd have a QP, Panamera, AMG (anything engaging / more emotive).

[AnotherClarkey]

Mosdef said:

And costs £32k before negotiating.

At £60k I think the Tesla makes sense and on a price point of view competes with low end 7 series, A8s and to a lesser extent the S Class. They all leave the Tesla far, far behind in so far as refinement and luxury are concerned but I don't think anyone buys a Tesla on that basis. I can see the appeal of Tesla against any one of the above, but it's horses for courses.

Once the Tesla gets to £90k+, I really don't understand the buying rationale at that price point. I'd have a QP, Panamera, AMG (anything engaging / more emotive).

The brand new lwb diesel S class I was in the other day didn't leave a Model S far behind on refinement.

[Mosdef]

AnotherClarkey said:

The brand new lwb diesel S class I was in the other day didn't leave a Model S far behind on refinement.

I'm quite surprised by that. I felt the ride and interior quality were leagues behind. Clearly the Tesla will score highly on lack of engine noise but the one I drove had more suspension, tyre and wind noise than I expected but perhaps my expectations were too high.

[AnotherClarkey]

Mosdef said:

I'm quite surprised by that. I felt the ride and interior quality were leagues behind. Clearly the Tesla will score highly on lack of engine noise but the one I drove had more suspension, tyre and wind noise than I expected but perhaps my expectations were too high.

Both had quite high levels of tire roar but the Merc always suffered from grumbling engine noise and vibration. The start/stop was also very crude and sent shudders through the car.