Young people and sensible boring saloons
Discussion
At age 19, I had a 1986 mk2 1.3 Cavalier saloon. It was my dads old car which was about 7 years old and was miles ahead in comfort than the mk1 Fiesta I bought after passing my test in 1990. Also i got the Cavalier for nothing so I wasn't complaining. When rust and about 93000miles on the clock got the better of it, I replaced it with a 1989 1.6 mk2 Astra, a much more common car amongst younger drivers at the time than an off yellow colour Cavalier!
Ha!
When I was 20 I had a Honda Legend, and I had a friend with a Nissan Maxima (both early 90s v6 autos)
But we bought them for the retro appeal rather than them being sensible saloons so they probably don't count
I do get what the OP is saying though, most people my age now (21) seem to aspire to A4 tdis and 3 series
I'm not entirely sure of the reason, maybe it's a desire to look older/more grown up or more mature, and that fun cars such as hot hatches, have gained a negative 'boy racer' reputation, which doesn't look cool. I don't know.
I think badge snobbery does come into it too, If you've ever been on those god awful Facebook cars for sale/wanted pages, they're full of young people going "Got 5k for Audi/bmw wats about?" (sic)
But remember the 80s was 30 years ago, modifying a Fiesta has gone from being something associated with yoofs to being something your Dad did...
But what do I know, I drive a Volvo...
When I was 20 I had a Honda Legend, and I had a friend with a Nissan Maxima (both early 90s v6 autos)
But we bought them for the retro appeal rather than them being sensible saloons so they probably don't count
I do get what the OP is saying though, most people my age now (21) seem to aspire to A4 tdis and 3 series
I'm not entirely sure of the reason, maybe it's a desire to look older/more grown up or more mature, and that fun cars such as hot hatches, have gained a negative 'boy racer' reputation, which doesn't look cool. I don't know.
I think badge snobbery does come into it too, If you've ever been on those god awful Facebook cars for sale/wanted pages, they're full of young people going "Got 5k for Audi/bmw wats about?" (sic)
But remember the 80s was 30 years ago, modifying a Fiesta has gone from being something associated with yoofs to being something your Dad did...
But what do I know, I drive a Volvo...
Its incredibly easy to lease or finance something these days, so its easier for a teenager or early 20s to get themselves into something seen as luxury like the Mercs, BMW and so on. Also I think that young people today care far less about how fast cars are and most boring saloons you can buy now are as fast, if not faster, than the hot hatches of 10-20 years ago.
And comparing the UKs youth to the 20 somethings here on Pistonheads is probably the wrong way to go about it because I assume they are the odd ones out and all like that Matt in the Cowboy hat guy.
And comparing the UKs youth to the 20 somethings here on Pistonheads is probably the wrong way to go about it because I assume they are the odd ones out and all like that Matt in the Cowboy hat guy.
kwit I don't think it's any different to how things have always been. Most of my group of drinking friends had boring cars, then i also had another group of drinking mates that were car nuts. Main difference is the old warm/hot hatches (mk2 golf gti, 205 gti etc) are now diesel car speed with the diesel clatter so you can have a boring car with the performance that we used to associate with a hot hatch. only car people seem to have moved on with following hot hatches/performance cars.
See, I've found the complete opposite. From my observations, most young people seem to be intent on driving a hatchback (because they're 'sporty', innit).
I suppose I bucked the trend a bit - old BMW, Jaguar and Volvo saloons took me though my uni years. They typically cost a grand, probably a fraction of what my peers spent on their hatches, but offered more speed, space and comfort. I suppose I looked a bit like I'd borrowed my grandad's car (especially the last of them, an E39 saloon in a dubious shade of green) but for the amount of metal I had for the money, I didn't really care.
I suppose I bucked the trend a bit - old BMW, Jaguar and Volvo saloons took me though my uni years. They typically cost a grand, probably a fraction of what my peers spent on their hatches, but offered more speed, space and comfort. I suppose I looked a bit like I'd borrowed my grandad's car (especially the last of them, an E39 saloon in a dubious shade of green) but for the amount of metal I had for the money, I didn't really care.
Over the years I have found that the most fun /enjoyable cars have been the cheapest ones I had owned and not really the branded ones...
first car I had 10years ago even before I got my driving license , 97 sebring: cost like 1200eur and came with smashed front bumper hence the price, got a new bumper and at that time it was just super cool for me, the sound was just great for it, could carry 6people ,probably more
looked something like this:
Got my license ,had an bmw x5 than , well... it was huge, had a badge and all that. but it was a dreadful car , drank petrol like crazy, broke down all the time and really I got bored out of it and people really didn't gave any attention to it. Was just an expensive thing to own...
-got a few years old bmw 745 after that for rather cheap , well.. it was kind nice car to be in , was quite fast but again...Got bored with it after I got used to the rather nice interior, no1 really cared about it as well
-than like 4years ago I got a 1993 civic from a friend for 300euros who just wanted to get rid of it as was going abroad , 1.6 vtec
It was properly riced out,had insanely good sound ( hole in exhaust helped a little as well ) had some upgrades and was already LPG converted so it cost buttons to run, needless to say it was probably the most fun car I have ever owned even it was an old junk.Got rid of it after the MOT expired as it needed way too much work and I just didn't really cared about it much but I did abused it properly and it held up pretty good.
-Now Few years ago got now 20years old Fiat barchetta for under 1000eur, well Let's just say I still have it 3years later and don't plan on getting rid of it. extremely cheap to run, looks great for a 20year old 1k car , and is a great conversion starter + as I don't live in UK I can actually enjoy it on sunny days half of the year..
I just don't get the point of the expensive saloons, they are not practical, they aren't really good at anything & and they just look like an average boring car on the road, sure it may cost some £40k when new and comes with a badge, but ask yourself - do you really even care when you see those cars on the road?
first car I had 10years ago even before I got my driving license , 97 sebring: cost like 1200eur and came with smashed front bumper hence the price, got a new bumper and at that time it was just super cool for me, the sound was just great for it, could carry 6people ,probably more
looked something like this:
Got my license ,had an bmw x5 than , well... it was huge, had a badge and all that. but it was a dreadful car , drank petrol like crazy, broke down all the time and really I got bored out of it and people really didn't gave any attention to it. Was just an expensive thing to own...
-got a few years old bmw 745 after that for rather cheap , well.. it was kind nice car to be in , was quite fast but again...Got bored with it after I got used to the rather nice interior, no1 really cared about it as well
-than like 4years ago I got a 1993 civic from a friend for 300euros who just wanted to get rid of it as was going abroad , 1.6 vtec
It was properly riced out,had insanely good sound ( hole in exhaust helped a little as well
) had some upgrades and was already LPG converted so it cost buttons to run, needless to say it was probably the most fun car I have ever owned even it was an old junk.Got rid of it after the MOT expired as it needed way too much work and I just didn't really cared about it much but I did abused it properly and it held up pretty good.-Now Few years ago got now 20years old Fiat barchetta for under 1000eur, well Let's just say I still have it 3years later and don't plan on getting rid of it. extremely cheap to run, looks great for a 20year old 1k car , and is a great conversion starter + as I don't live in UK I can actually enjoy it on sunny days half of the year..
I just don't get the point of the expensive saloons, they are not practical, they aren't really good at anything & and they just look like an average boring car on the road, sure it may cost some £40k when new and comes with a badge, but ask yourself - do you really even care when you see those cars on the road?
Edited by itaa on Tuesday 5th July 22:18
Cars are not such a defining thing anymore, now theyre a white good. Your instagram pictures, facebook page or snap chats are more defining.
Many Young people dont know what each other drive as theyre kept in their apartment parking space and never used.
Traffic is terrible. I often think its stupid having a fast car that just sits in traffic like the rest of us and has to do 30mph. The point of a fast car is ridiculous on main roads, you can only do 70mph.
Technology in a car eg reading out text messages, tv, apple play and so on are more useful than a big v8.
I fit the demographic and as my daily car i have a boring saloon. Its quicker than a hot hatch, more comfy, electric everything and just an easier place to be. Not bumping up and down all over.
I think we are passed the era when a girl cares about what you drive - blokes are about having a six pack to share with the world on instagram and girls are about pouting for facebook. Cars are an irrelevance to most now.
Many Young people dont know what each other drive as theyre kept in their apartment parking space and never used.
Traffic is terrible. I often think its stupid having a fast car that just sits in traffic like the rest of us and has to do 30mph. The point of a fast car is ridiculous on main roads, you can only do 70mph.
Technology in a car eg reading out text messages, tv, apple play and so on are more useful than a big v8.
I fit the demographic and as my daily car i have a boring saloon. Its quicker than a hot hatch, more comfy, electric everything and just an easier place to be. Not bumping up and down all over.
I think we are passed the era when a girl cares about what you drive - blokes are about having a six pack to share with the world on instagram and girls are about pouting for facebook. Cars are an irrelevance to most now.
jonah35 said:
Cars are not such a defining thing anymore, now theyre a white good. Your instagram pictures, facebook page or snap chats are more defining.
I think we are passed the era when a girl cares about what you drive - blokes are about having a six pack to share with the world on instagram and girls are about pouting for facebook. Cars are an irrelevance to most now.
I disagree, people like the nice badge because it fits so nicely in their Instagram. I think we are passed the era when a girl cares about what you drive - blokes are about having a six pack to share with the world on instagram and girls are about pouting for facebook. Cars are an irrelevance to most now.
Interesting,
I'm 22,and I've had 3 saloons, 2 lexus is200s, because they're pretty, rwd, comfy and I wanted one.
I had a v6 maxima (mentioned above) but that wasn't exactly a boring rep mobile, especially as it was unpopular from factory, awful on fuel, and no one had any idea what it was... I bought it because it was hilarious.
I do think it's image to a lot of people, which is mental, if you judge someone purely based on the car they drive then you're an idiot. Everyone has the right to own what they like, even if other people don't like it. (Prominent, as I drive a standard Honda Integra Type R, and I mean actually standard, and I don't own one flat peak cap, It is just a fabulous drivers car)
In short, If someone genuinely likes it for what it is, then I don't see why not. But I feel this is rarely the case. Cars are seen as fashion by some, I mean why else do some people doing 2000 miles a year own a brand new diesel 3 series? I mean, really, please justify it, haha.
I'm 22,and I've had 3 saloons, 2 lexus is200s, because they're pretty, rwd, comfy and I wanted one.
I had a v6 maxima (mentioned above) but that wasn't exactly a boring rep mobile, especially as it was unpopular from factory, awful on fuel, and no one had any idea what it was... I bought it because it was hilarious.
I do think it's image to a lot of people, which is mental, if you judge someone purely based on the car they drive then you're an idiot. Everyone has the right to own what they like, even if other people don't like it. (Prominent, as I drive a standard Honda Integra Type R, and I mean actually standard, and I don't own one flat peak cap, It is just a fabulous drivers car)
In short, If someone genuinely likes it for what it is, then I don't see why not. But I feel this is rarely the case. Cars are seen as fashion by some, I mean why else do some people doing 2000 miles a year own a brand new diesel 3 series? I mean, really, please justify it, haha.
dopsonj said:
23 and currently driving (and outright own) a 996 911...
18 - Toyota Yaris 2000
18-19 - Seat Ibiza 1.4 2003
19-20 - BMW 318 Convertible 2002
20-23 - 986 Boxster 2002
23 - 996 911 Carrera 2002
Always owned my cars outright, and i'd much rather drive a 996 C2 for £22,000 then spend the same money or lease something brand new... No thanks.
I'm hopeful that 996 prices will maintain, if not rise a tad more and then the next car will be the 30-40K bracket - R8 - Aston... Thinking 25?
Nice car history you have there - if I had ever managed to own a 911 I don't think I would have been looking for an upgrade! (Probably needed to set my sights higher).18 - Toyota Yaris 2000
18-19 - Seat Ibiza 1.4 2003
19-20 - BMW 318 Convertible 2002
20-23 - 986 Boxster 2002
23 - 996 911 Carrera 2002
Always owned my cars outright, and i'd much rather drive a 996 C2 for £22,000 then spend the same money or lease something brand new... No thanks.
I'm hopeful that 996 prices will maintain, if not rise a tad more and then the next car will be the 30-40K bracket - R8 - Aston... Thinking 25?
Enjoy the 996, and good luck with whatever you go for next!
So I finally got to the end of this thread!
It does seem to suggest younger buyers now seem to focus more on brand than the car - in my teens and early 20s I wasn't bothered about brand, I just wanted the quickest car I could afford!
My first five were all saloons, MKII Cortina, Fiat 125, Rover P6 3500S, Fiat 132 1800ES, then Ford Granada 2.8 Ghia. The Cortina was a boring saloon, but despite being saloons the next 4 weren't boring! Main reason I bought what I did was because I could get them insured! I actually worked for an insurance company at the time and had looked at a 3 litre Capri before I bought the Rover V8, but when I asked my boss for a quote on the Capri he more or less told me to p*ss off! Still the Rover was probably at least as quick, even if it rolled like a 2CV in corners! Same scenario repeated when I asked about a Fiat 124 Coupe before I bought the 132!
Then I reached 25 and insurance got so much easier, so the Granada went and I got a MKII Escort RS2000, followed by a 2 year old Capri 2.8 Injection - don't think I've ever been more excited by a car than the day I picked that one up! (Sadly had to sell it for a deposit on a house, but bought another a couple of years later!).
So all RWD up to that point, although I did have some mediocrity after that!
I've been out of the young category for decades now, but have only had BMWs for the last 11 years or so. None has been a saloon and I don't buy them for the badge, but where else am I going to find anything built this century with a naturally-aspirated straight 6 petrol engine driving the rear wheels via a manual gearbox?
It does seem to suggest younger buyers now seem to focus more on brand than the car - in my teens and early 20s I wasn't bothered about brand, I just wanted the quickest car I could afford!
My first five were all saloons, MKII Cortina, Fiat 125, Rover P6 3500S, Fiat 132 1800ES, then Ford Granada 2.8 Ghia. The Cortina was a boring saloon, but despite being saloons the next 4 weren't boring! Main reason I bought what I did was because I could get them insured! I actually worked for an insurance company at the time and had looked at a 3 litre Capri before I bought the Rover V8, but when I asked my boss for a quote on the Capri he more or less told me to p*ss off! Still the Rover was probably at least as quick, even if it rolled like a 2CV in corners! Same scenario repeated when I asked about a Fiat 124 Coupe before I bought the 132!
Then I reached 25 and insurance got so much easier, so the Granada went and I got a MKII Escort RS2000, followed by a 2 year old Capri 2.8 Injection - don't think I've ever been more excited by a car than the day I picked that one up! (Sadly had to sell it for a deposit on a house, but bought another a couple of years later!).
So all RWD up to that point, although I did have some mediocrity after that!
I've been out of the young category for decades now, but have only had BMWs for the last 11 years or so. None has been a saloon and I don't buy them for the badge, but where else am I going to find anything built this century with a naturally-aspirated straight 6 petrol engine driving the rear wheels via a manual gearbox?
Just about 23 and work with a lot of people my age range. I can only think of a maybe two out of what must be 30 or so who have the car for a reason other than image or "gets me from A to B".
One is a Corsa VXR, the other is a DS3 racing. Both ironically not typically associated with badge snobbery, and both considered to be pretty good cars to drive.
Some others are still into cars and driving/modifying, but the badge thing still comes into it even if not "newness". One colleague has an '05 plate BMW 1-Series petrol which he does genuinely like, but I'm sure part of it is "BMW" and the badge.
I've also witnessed someone talking about getting a VW Scirocco R....
line 
. Because it looks really good and sporty but you can have it with a Diesel engine which does loads of miles to the gallon and an automatic gearbox. Apparently.
I think some of it is to impress other people who aren't car people, but that can work both ways.
A lot of people will be impressed because the number plate is very new and it's a BMW so must be good and expensive, because they just aren't interested in what's under the bonnet, or what suspension it has, as long as it's not on fire and will work. Their idea of an impressive car is a shiny new one which doesn't break down and doesn't cost loads to run. For example, a new diesel Scirocco R-line.
On the other hand, other non car people will just associate a brand to being impressive regardless of age. Telling someone you have a BMW or a Mercedes gets an "ooh" reaction, even though it might be a decade old 1.4l 1-series or a seven year old C-class which you could probably get for less than the price of a new Ford Focus. Nothing wrong with those cars necessarily but name dropping the badge/flashing the keys is the way to impress this half of the non car people. Their idea of an impressive car is one with the "best" badge. For example, people think I'm moneybags when they find out I drive a Jaguar, until I tell them it didn't cost much more than a new Ford.
Having written all that I think it pretty much comes down to wanting to impress as many people as possible. And as the majority of the population are probably not "car people" and probably wouldn't be impressed by your immaculate Lotus Carlton (it's just an old Vauxhall isn't it?) the best chance of doing that is by driving something preferably with a "premium" badge, which is as new and visually impressive as possible, even if the engine does happen to be the smallest and/or worst in that spec. They'll never know the difference anyway, will they?
TL;DR:Can't blame you. I'll read it again in the morning.
One is a Corsa VXR, the other is a DS3 racing. Both ironically not typically associated with badge snobbery, and both considered to be pretty good cars to drive.
Some others are still into cars and driving/modifying, but the badge thing still comes into it even if not "newness". One colleague has an '05 plate BMW 1-Series petrol which he does genuinely like, but I'm sure part of it is "BMW" and the badge.
I've also witnessed someone talking about getting a VW Scirocco R....
line . Because it looks really good and sporty but you can have it with a Diesel engine which does loads of miles to the gallon and an automatic gearbox. Apparently.I think some of it is to impress other people who aren't car people, but that can work both ways.
A lot of people will be impressed because the number plate is very new and it's a BMW so must be good and expensive, because they just aren't interested in what's under the bonnet, or what suspension it has, as long as it's not on fire and will work. Their idea of an impressive car is a shiny new one which doesn't break down and doesn't cost loads to run. For example, a new diesel Scirocco R-line.
On the other hand, other non car people will just associate a brand to being impressive regardless of age. Telling someone you have a BMW or a Mercedes gets an "ooh" reaction, even though it might be a decade old 1.4l 1-series or a seven year old C-class which you could probably get for less than the price of a new Ford Focus. Nothing wrong with those cars necessarily but name dropping the badge/flashing the keys is the way to impress this half of the non car people. Their idea of an impressive car is one with the "best" badge. For example, people think I'm moneybags when they find out I drive a Jaguar, until I tell them it didn't cost much more than a new Ford.
Having written all that I think it pretty much comes down to wanting to impress as many people as possible. And as the majority of the population are probably not "car people" and probably wouldn't be impressed by your immaculate Lotus Carlton (it's just an old Vauxhall isn't it?) the best chance of doing that is by driving something preferably with a "premium" badge, which is as new and visually impressive as possible, even if the engine does happen to be the smallest and/or worst in that spec. They'll never know the difference anyway, will they?
TL;DR:Can't blame you. I'll read it again in the morning.
I'm 26 and have always really wanted a big mean looking saloon/estate car. I started out with a Mitsubishi Colt, then bought a '59 Fiesta Zetec S and now got a Golf R.
We had to change cars for work and went looking at lots of things. It had to tick a load of boxes and I was really hoping to finally get that S4 Avant or C63 estate. In the end I couldn't because my wife found them too big for her and she is the main driver as I work from home most days. We settled on a Golf R and it's perfect really. Very middle of the road in size but quick when you need it to be and average when just driving round town. Can't say I'm not still pining for a saloon or big estate car. Next time round I'd love to have a C63 Estate. Although I did sit in the Audi TT-S at Goodwood and loved it so thats a contender. Not looking to change for 2 years though so hopefully either the wife becomes ok with estates/saloons or we get a cool sporty coupe car.
I can't explain why I want one. I just like to think that one day I'll get a massive powered estate, don't need the space just want one. Even if I couldn't afford anything fast and new, I'd much rather have a fast and cool older car than a slow leased diesel.
One of my friends has a Estate Volvo at 28. It's a low powered diesel thing that he rags to death and is always crashing. Company car - who cares. Another friend got a Golf because he 'always wanted a Golf' - rags it around town and uses it as a works vehicle - he's a window cleaner and the boot must be rotten by now. My wife's friend just bought herself an over-priced Mercedes A Class diesel and seems quite proud to drive a Mercedes now.
I think if you're not a 'car person' then you just go after brand or badge.
We had to change cars for work and went looking at lots of things. It had to tick a load of boxes and I was really hoping to finally get that S4 Avant or C63 estate. In the end I couldn't because my wife found them too big for her and she is the main driver as I work from home most days. We settled on a Golf R and it's perfect really. Very middle of the road in size but quick when you need it to be and average when just driving round town. Can't say I'm not still pining for a saloon or big estate car. Next time round I'd love to have a C63 Estate. Although I did sit in the Audi TT-S at Goodwood and loved it so thats a contender. Not looking to change for 2 years though so hopefully either the wife becomes ok with estates/saloons or we get a cool sporty coupe car.
I can't explain why I want one. I just like to think that one day I'll get a massive powered estate, don't need the space just want one. Even if I couldn't afford anything fast and new, I'd much rather have a fast and cool older car than a slow leased diesel.
One of my friends has a Estate Volvo at 28. It's a low powered diesel thing that he rags to death and is always crashing. Company car - who cares. Another friend got a Golf because he 'always wanted a Golf' - rags it around town and uses it as a works vehicle - he's a window cleaner and the boot must be rotten by now. My wife's friend just bought herself an over-priced Mercedes A Class diesel and seems quite proud to drive a Mercedes now.
I think if you're not a 'car person' then you just go after brand or badge.
Edited by ashleyman on Wednesday 6th July 02:41
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