RE: Golf GTI Clubsport S sold out!
Discussion
MrBarry123 said:
SidewaysSi said:
How much will anyone actually make? A couple of grand? Is it worth it?
On this car? I'd expect very little, if anything, however I would expect the residuals to remain strong once the car has depreciated to around the £30k mark. I'd be surprised if it didn't match the Megane Trophy-R's depreciation curve almost exactly.I like 'em, pity I'm not in a position to buy one, moving from our flat to a house, or hoping to, damn adult stuff!
IMI A said:
nickfrog said:
IMI A said:
E46 with upgraded brakes and completely stripped out shell, manual gearbox, race steering rack is very nice and I'd have one in fact I've been keeping my eye out for one for a project. M2 and M4 wouldn't even look at them.
Sounds like your ideal car might be some slightly removed functionally from the daily road cars that the people at BMW produce for the M range so your expectations were never going to be fulfilled as they make cars to be used daily. I am not sure they're going to lose much sleep over the loss of your custom. It would be good to hear more about your "project".Going back to the comparison with this new Golf CS S I don't think BMW makes anything like this car anymore. Sad as they were one of the pioneers behind the clubsport type car. I'd personally have this Golf CS S over an M2/M4 any day of the week.
M2 is 1495kgs DIN. i.e. 1,570 kgs with a 75kg driver. For clarity, this is identical to a E46 M3. I have seen countless of those tracked and dd over the years.
If you can't see past the fake noise, then fair enough. Plenty of people track their current M any day of the week despite it (or they simply pull the fuse out), yet use them as dailies. Have a quick look at Spa and the Ring next time. I have no idea what a typical BMW driver is, and to be fair I don't care. I judge a product on its merits as I am sure you do. I am also convinced you have extensive experience of current M cars on the road and track, including the M2.
It would be interesting to know what car you drive.
As stock many M cars are simply not cut out for track work. They come with terrible brakes as the main thing.
That enough shows, when a 330D M sport comes with better brakes than an M3 that is quite laughable.
I have seen plenty of M cars tracked, and I do hanker after an E9X M3 for my next toy project but I am not sure it would be any more fun than say a lightly modified GT86 in the grand scheme of things.
I think the last generation of M car were better personally but the world is moving towards turbocharging for inefficiencies sake and as a bi-product we get extra power.
I don't know anyone who would complain that the new M3/M4 is significantly faster than the old V8 M3. A new M3/M4 would absolutely leave the old one for dead, any gear, any speed. Especially lower down. And I don't know why we as petrolheads are complaining that the cars are faster with better brakes and suspension than the previous generation had...
That enough shows, when a 330D M sport comes with better brakes than an M3 that is quite laughable.
I have seen plenty of M cars tracked, and I do hanker after an E9X M3 for my next toy project but I am not sure it would be any more fun than say a lightly modified GT86 in the grand scheme of things.
I think the last generation of M car were better personally but the world is moving towards turbocharging for inefficiencies sake and as a bi-product we get extra power.
I don't know anyone who would complain that the new M3/M4 is significantly faster than the old V8 M3. A new M3/M4 would absolutely leave the old one for dead, any gear, any speed. Especially lower down. And I don't know why we as petrolheads are complaining that the cars are faster with better brakes and suspension than the previous generation had...
nickfrog said:
IMI A said:
nickfrog said:
IMI A said:
E46 with upgraded brakes and completely stripped out shell, manual gearbox, race steering rack is very nice and I'd have one in fact I've been keeping my eye out for one for a project. M2 and M4 wouldn't even look at them.
Sounds like your ideal car might be some slightly removed functionally from the daily road cars that the people at BMW produce for the M range so your expectations were never going to be fulfilled as they make cars to be used daily. I am not sure they're going to lose much sleep over the loss of your custom. It would be good to hear more about your "project".Going back to the comparison with this new Golf CS S I don't think BMW makes anything like this car anymore. Sad as they were one of the pioneers behind the clubsport type car. I'd personally have this Golf CS S over an M2/M4 any day of the week.
M2 is 1495kgs DIN. i.e. 1,570 kgs with a 75kg driver. For clarity, this is identical to a E46 M3. I have seen countless of those tracked and dd over the years.
If you can't see past the fake noise, then fair enough. Plenty of people track their current M any day of the week despite it (or they simply pull the fuse out), yet use them as dailies. Have a quick look at Spa and the Ring next time. I have no idea what a typical BMW driver is, and to be fair I don't care. I judge a product on its merits as I am sure you do. I am also convinced you have extensive experience of current M cars on the road and track, including the M2.
It would be interesting to know what car you drive.
IMI A said:
nickfrog said:
IMI A said:
nickfrog said:
IMI A said:
E46 with upgraded brakes and completely stripped out shell, manual gearbox, race steering rack is very nice and I'd have one in fact I've been keeping my eye out for one for a project. M2 and M4 wouldn't even look at them.
Sounds like your ideal car might be some slightly removed functionally from the daily road cars that the people at BMW produce for the M range so your expectations were never going to be fulfilled as they make cars to be used daily. I am not sure they're going to lose much sleep over the loss of your custom. It would be good to hear more about your "project".Going back to the comparison with this new Golf CS S I don't think BMW makes anything like this car anymore. Sad as they were one of the pioneers behind the clubsport type car. I'd personally have this Golf CS S over an M2/M4 any day of the week.
M2 is 1495kgs DIN. i.e. 1,570 kgs with a 75kg driver. For clarity, this is identical to a E46 M3. I have seen countless of those tracked and dd over the years.
If you can't see past the fake noise, then fair enough. Plenty of people track their current M any day of the week despite it (or they simply pull the fuse out), yet use them as dailies. Have a quick look at Spa and the Ring next time. I have no idea what a typical BMW driver is, and to be fair I don't care. I judge a product on its merits as I am sure you do. I am also convinced you have extensive experience of current M cars on the road and track, including the M2.
It would be interesting to know what car you drive.
My Woman has a new M3 and my Daughter an M2, they're great car to drive but quality down on the V8 M3 IMO.
I thought that the Golf R had synthetic noise played through the speakers??.
Anyhow it's is not a good noise and I have disconnected the system for that reason.
vpr said:
IMI A said:
nickfrog said:
IMI A said:
nickfrog said:
IMI A said:
E46 with upgraded brakes and completely stripped out shell, manual gearbox, race steering rack is very nice and I'd have one in fact I've been keeping my eye out for one for a project. M2 and M4 wouldn't even look at them.
Sounds like your ideal car might be some slightly removed functionally from the daily road cars that the people at BMW produce for the M range so your expectations were never going to be fulfilled as they make cars to be used daily. I am not sure they're going to lose much sleep over the loss of your custom. It would be good to hear more about your "project".Going back to the comparison with this new Golf CS S I don't think BMW makes anything like this car anymore. Sad as they were one of the pioneers behind the clubsport type car. I'd personally have this Golf CS S over an M2/M4 any day of the week.
M2 is 1495kgs DIN. i.e. 1,570 kgs with a 75kg driver. For clarity, this is identical to a E46 M3. I have seen countless of those tracked and dd over the years.
If you can't see past the fake noise, then fair enough. Plenty of people track their current M any day of the week despite it (or they simply pull the fuse out), yet use them as dailies. Have a quick look at Spa and the Ring next time. I have no idea what a typical BMW driver is, and to be fair I don't care. I judge a product on its merits as I am sure you do. I am also convinced you have extensive experience of current M cars on the road and track, including the M2.
It would be interesting to know what car you drive.
My Woman has a new M3 and my Daughter an M2, they're great car to drive but quality down on the V8 M3 IMO.
I thought that the Golf R had synthetic noise played through the speakers??.
Anyhow it's is not a good noise and I have disconnected the system for that reason.
Come on playing fake engine sound through the speakers is ridiculously crap/pants
IMI A said:
Yes I've read and watched a few write ups on the M2 and M4. There's a fabulous vid out there where Auto Express race a M2 against a Macan turbo against the clock - both cars blisteringly quick. Wouldn't be my cup of tea though. My dd was spanked royally in the press and not many people on these boards like them. Still bought it and optimised her to my requirements as for me it was the perfect dd.
Come on playing fake engine sound through the speakers is ridiculously crap/pants
The VAG system has a 'soundaktor' which basically vibrates the windscreen, doesn't 'play it though the speakers'. Not too sure what the BMW system does though.Come on playing fake engine sound through the speakers is ridiculously crap/pants
I thought I wouldn't like it but most of the time it is pretty unobtrusive, especially if you set the lowest setting where it's pretty much inaudible unless you cane the car. There's a loud setting which is OTT for regular driving but adds a bit of drama in small doses.
All in all it makes more sense than making the external exhaust system louder as it doesn't p1ss off other people.
Lucas Ayde said:
IMI A said:
Yes I've read and watched a few write ups on the M2 and M4. There's a fabulous vid out there where Auto Express race a M2 against a Macan turbo against the clock - both cars blisteringly quick. Wouldn't be my cup of tea though. My dd was spanked royally in the press and not many people on these boards like them. Still bought it and optimised her to my requirements as for me it was the perfect dd.
Come on playing fake engine sound through the speakers is ridiculously crap/pants
The VAG system has a 'soundaktor' which basically vibrates the windscreen, doesn't 'play it though the speakers'. Not too sure what the BMW system does though.Come on playing fake engine sound through the speakers is ridiculously crap/pants
I thought I wouldn't like it but most of the time it is pretty unobtrusive, especially if you set the lowest setting where it's pretty much inaudible unless you cane the car. There's a loud setting which is OTT for regular driving but adds a bit of drama in small doses.
All in all it makes more sense than making the external exhaust system louder as it doesn't p1ss off other people.
IMI A said:
Thats funny. Didn't know that the Golf CS S had a soundakator aka vibrator. So cheesy and puts me off the car if true. Can't understand how adding a vibrator fits with its weight saving focus? Perhaps it has an extension which can be fitted to SWMBO? Hmmm..
No idea if the Clubsports have them. The Mk7 R does and so does the Mk7 GTi. So do the sporty petrol Audis.I'm 30 and I've never had a car newer than '96. Today I learned that modern sports cars pipe in fake engine noise into the car, some by vibrating the windshield. That's losing the plot surely? Whenever I've driven my dad's Audi, I hated how it seemed like they thought perfection was in having the wheel, pedals and gearstick all as disconnected feeling as possible, like a game controller. I guess in the name of comfort? When you have to generate a fake engine noise by vibrating glass in the cabin, surely you're coming back on yourself, but in a way that adds complexity and weight, and just plain dishonesty.
I thought it was unusual but half reasonable that the new MX-5 had channels to bring the real engine sound into the cabin. Mazda also managed to make a modern car that completely captured the 80's original as far as size, weight and simplicity goes. What are VW, Audi, BMW etc playing at nowadays?
Maybe this limited edition 200kg lighter Golf that uses an exhaust to make sound is them waking up.
I thought it was unusual but half reasonable that the new MX-5 had channels to bring the real engine sound into the cabin. Mazda also managed to make a modern car that completely captured the 80's original as far as size, weight and simplicity goes. What are VW, Audi, BMW etc playing at nowadays?
Maybe this limited edition 200kg lighter Golf that uses an exhaust to make sound is them waking up.
automotive refinement has gone hand in hand with the BHP race in the past 20 years which is why we've ended up with bloated AMG and M cars. Cars have got heavier and heavier because if the extra power and the notion that you need leather and auto everything. Most cars are so boring that you know what the review is going to say before you've read it. Cars are so well developed and most of the car buying public so lazy or uninterested in what makes a good car that they have to find a way to put character into cars while giving their cars a notional edge in the market place. hopefully lightness will become the new BHP and we'll be looking at BHP / left per ton rather than the headline figure
routari said:
I'm 30 and I've never had a car newer than '96. Today I learned that modern sports cars pipe in fake engine noise into the car, some by vibrating the windshield. That's losing the plot surely? Whenever I've driven my dad's Audi, I hated how it seemed like they thought perfection was in having the wheel, pedals and gearstick all as disconnected feeling as possible, like a game controller. I guess in the name of comfort? When you have to generate a fake engine noise by vibrating glass in the cabin, surely you're coming back on yourself, but in a way that adds complexity and weight, and just plain dishonesty.
I thought it was unusual but half reasonable that the new MX-5 had channels to bring the real engine sound into the cabin. Mazda also managed to make a modern car that completely captured the 80's original as far as size, weight and simplicity goes. What are VW, Audi, BMW etc playing at nowadays?
Maybe this limited edition 200kg lighter Golf that uses an exhaust to make sound is them waking up.
Not all have fake noise, most VAG 4 pot products do (speaker / vibration unit in engine bay) as do all (?) M cars (through the speakers)I thought it was unusual but half reasonable that the new MX-5 had channels to bring the real engine sound into the cabin. Mazda also managed to make a modern car that completely captured the 80's original as far as size, weight and simplicity goes. What are VW, Audi, BMW etc playing at nowadays?
Maybe this limited edition 200kg lighter Golf that uses an exhaust to make sound is them waking up.
Audi RS's and AMG's still make real noise, the RS3 with the sports exhaust makes a fantastic noise, the A45 (with sports box again) is one of the best sounding 4 pots available, the AMG V8s are just dirty
It certainly put me of getting an M or a VAG 4 pot, some people are not bothered by it at all thou
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Saturday 6th August 05:16
I've got it in my Polo and it doesn't bother me that the noise is fake. It sounds real sk what do I care if it isn't. After years of modified cars that were loud as hell I'm quite happy that I can turn the volume down on this one or up of I feel the need.
That said it's not that noticeable imo
That said it's not that noticeable imo
nickfrog said:
How can the M2 be bloated if it's the same weight as a E46 M3 ?
This thread is about a VW track lw special buddy. The Golf CS S is still relatively heavy for a track special.Nigh on 1600kg with a driver for E46 M3 and M2 is far too heavy in the context of track work. Fine for a road car and most average road cars weigh in at about this weight or even heavier nowadays...
IMI A said:
nickfrog said:
How can the M2 be bloated if it's the same weight as a E46 M3 ?
This thread is about a VW track lw special buddy. The Golf CS S is still relatively heavy for a track special.Nigh on 1600kg with a driver for E46 M3 and M2 is far too heavy in the context of track work. Fine for a road car and most average road cars weigh in at about this weight or even heavier nowadays...
Plenty of people at DN15 last month were running M cars, and the current ones don't even cook their brakes. Not everyone want to travel to a track in a Caterfield.
I do think the Golf CS would be great for that actually. Or an M2 for that matter.
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