RE: Ford Focus RS: PH Fleet
Discussion
I'll leave this here http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=58...
Fuldhat said:
People are over the moon with this car, while dont they see it is made the be as cheap as possible.
Here is why:
Read diff can only handle about 25 hp more, before you are stressing it to the point of failure. If the car was with a proper diff that could take more power you would see remaps already breaking past 400 hp.
(Sure some do, but goodluck with your rear diff once it explodes)
They dont make 350 hp, they make at best 320-330 hp.
More or less just a standard focus with 4wd in looks.
Who designed that interior? It is the most awful place to be with cheap nasty plastics everywhere and there is no room.
No front diff?
The whole "It will not understeer bulls
t". I have now seen quite a few on track and they understeer plenty.
The built in infotainment system is slow and not "polished"
So much fail above lolHere is why:
Read diff can only handle about 25 hp more, before you are stressing it to the point of failure. If the car was with a proper diff that could take more power you would see remaps already breaking past 400 hp.
(Sure some do, but goodluck with your rear diff once it explodes)
They dont make 350 hp, they make at best 320-330 hp.
More or less just a standard focus with 4wd in looks.
Who designed that interior? It is the most awful place to be with cheap nasty plastics everywhere and there is no room.
No front diff?
The whole "It will not understeer bulls
t". I have now seen quite a few on track and they understeer plenty.The built in infotainment system is slow and not "polished"
There are remaps running well over 400bhp already, those cars are out on the road. Me myself I don't care how much they can tune them to as I'll be happy taking the warranty approved FPM375 from Mountune.
Rolling road runs done by owner club members are showing them bang on the 345bhp
The interior - yes shock horror it's 95% the same as a regular Focus which judging by sales is more than adequate, Ford spent the money on the hardware not on redesigning a car that's at the end of it's life (same goes for the infotainment although Sync3 Apple/Android play is now coming on the post Sept ones).
Seriously people need to give their head a shake, especially those who haven't driven one - ignore the hype, drive it
nickfrog said:
I'll leave this here http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=58...
Very interesting post - thanks for linkings m said:
Very interesting post - thanks for linking
As I said in my post. Made to be as cheap as possible. Read this and weep Ford boys."He did some track driving in an RS which put the rear diff (admittedly very small) into thermal overload, which disengages the rear drive completely. Many others are seeing this same issue, including me at our test and the owner Todd when he drove it at Optima events.
"
IanJ9375 said:
Matt p said:
One came up next to me earlier this afternoon around 5pm. Just pootling along taking the little lad home in the rx7 and said Focus Rs decides to pull along on side just after the dartford bridge rev it a llittle and then proceed to fly off. Bit underwhelmed if I'm honest. The MK2 had far greater presence and sound glorious. These mk3's are pretty much meh to me.
Opinions are like aholes we all have one, I've a MK3 outside, it's all about the go for me to be honest not about the show.This is the first Ford to interest me since the Escort Cosworth
nickfrog said:
I'll leave this here http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=58...
That is one of the single most irrelevant, speculative an subjective pieces on vehicle engineering on the internet. Applying poor 'rules of thumb' found through trial and error for 'tuning race cars' with little to no actual calculation or understanding of basic physics. This is perfectly illustrated with their complete lack of understanding regarding the exhaust design. A change of shape does not have a significant effect on fluid flow unless the area of the pipe reduces. It's clear to see that the section that misses the propshaft bearing is wider than the for and aft pipe despite being squashed. These basic principals are taught in high school science....Ultimately, even if we take their analysis as correct, picking holes in a fast road car for not being built to the same standards as a GT3 spec race car is like rubbishing a Cessna because it doesn't have the same design philosophy as an F22 Raptor.
Of course I'm biased on the topic as I happen to love the RS, but it's not the kind of car that will flatter a poor or timid driver. Drive it around at 5/10ths an it'll feel just like a normal Focus that's riding on 100% stiffer springs. Delve a bit deeper, start to trust the car and let it move around and it all starts to flow. How anyone can call a £30k hatchback that will power oversteer in 3rd gear (OK...it's not a big smokey drift) boring, is beyond me. What more would people expect? 500bhp, a sequential and magnesium subframes? Get real! If you don't like it, fair enough, but I wish people would stop wasting their time trying to imply there's some great conspiracy in the motoring press. It's a great car, it pushes the game on (much like the Mk1 and Mk2 did for others), and I'm sure the future hot hatch ecosystem will benefit greatly as a result.
Fuldhat said:
As I said in my post. Made to be as cheap as possible. Read this and weep Ford boys.
"He did some track driving in an RS which put the rear diff (admittedly very small) into thermal overload, which disengages the rear drive completely. Many others are seeing this same issue, including me at our test and the owner Todd when he drove it at Optima events.
"
What a load of old rubbish, next you'll be comparing this to the larger, archaic permanent 4WD of the Sierra Cosworth! Ford (and GM) spend millions developing these things and the last thing they want is bad press or recall notices. Why would we trust them when we can get the opinion of a couple of hillbillys, comparing it to irrelevant tech from the early 90s?"He did some track driving in an RS which put the rear diff (admittedly very small) into thermal overload, which disengages the rear drive completely. Many others are seeing this same issue, including me at our test and the owner Todd when he drove it at Optima events.
"
Both previous RS Focus models made do with clever FWD and for this model, RWD has been added for extra grip when required, not permanently. I think it makes sense for the majority for the power to go to the front wheels most of the time and that's what it will be engineered to do.
RacerMike said:
nickfrog said:
I'll leave this here http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?p=58...
That is one of the single most irrelevant, speculative an subjective pieces on vehicle engineering on the internet. Applying poor 'rules of thumb' found through trial and error for 'tuning race cars' with little to no actual calculation or understanding of basic physics. This is perfectly illustrated with their complete lack of understanding regarding the exhaust design. A change of shape does not have a significant effect on fluid flow unless the area of the pipe reduces. It's clear to see that the section that misses the propshaft bearing is wider than the for and aft pipe despite being squashed. These basic principals are taught in high school science....Ultimately, even if we take their analysis as correct, picking holes in a fast road car for not being built to the same standards as a GT3 spec race car is like rubbishing a Cessna because it doesn't have the same design philosophy as an F22 Raptor.
Of course I'm biased on the topic as I happen to love the RS, but it's not the kind of car that will flatter a poor or timid driver. Drive it around at 5/10ths an it'll feel just like a normal Focus that's riding on 100% stiffer springs. Delve a bit deeper, start to trust the car and let it move around and it all starts to flow. How anyone can call a £30k hatchback that will power oversteer in 3rd gear (OK...it's not a big smokey drift) boring, is beyond me. What more would people expect? 500bhp, a sequential and magnesium subframes? Get real! If you don't like it, fair enough, but I wish people would stop wasting their time trying to imply there's some great conspiracy in the motoring press. It's a great car, it pushes the game on (much like the Mk1 and Mk2 did for others), and I'm sure the future hot hatch ecosystem will benefit greatly as a result.
"I have avoided the dumpster fire that are the Focus forums, especially after my 2nd post. Why? Because I'm not really writing this thread for the typical fans of the RS. Those are folks who were deeply in love with the RS long before it was built, and made their minds up about this car long ago. "
Perhaps just accept that the RS is not the best car in the world. its designed for a certain price point, and they wanted 4WD no matter what, so to fit that into the budget they had to use sub standard rear diff, that is made for the "350" hp and not a penny more. Thats why it overheats.
It is more or less a heavy FWD car most of the time.
You are just mad because your car is all hype, and once that fades it is just a normal car made to a budget and not the slayer of the dragons that everything think it is.
Edited by Fuldhat on Monday 17th October 13:02
Ford mention regular track use in the manual supplement and fitting coolers to aid longer track use other than the 30 minutes mentioned in the development videos:
It's not a supercar - it's a modified Focus ST that's more than capable for the average bloke to enjoy including the odd venture to the track.
Whether that makes it any better or worse than any other car is open to personal preference. C'est la vie.
It's not a supercar - it's a modified Focus ST that's more than capable for the average bloke to enjoy including the odd venture to the track.
Whether that makes it any better or worse than any other car is open to personal preference. C'est la vie.
Dal3D said:
Whether that makes it any better or worse than any other car is open to personal preference. C'est la vie.
I totally agree with that. I would much prefer a sorted 3-door front drive hatchback with a proper diff, 200kgs less and £15k less even with 75hp less, particularly for my use on track.
But if we all liked the same thing etc...
Fuldhat said:
I think they have a piece about you in the post.
"I have avoided the dumpster fire that are the Focus forums, especially after my 2nd post. Why? Because I'm not really writing this thread for the typical fans of the RS. Those are folks who were deeply in love with the RS long before it was built, and made their minds up about this car long ago. "
Perhaps just accept that the RS is not the best car in the world. its designed for a certain price point, and they wanted 4WD no matter what, so to fit that into the budget they had to use sub standard rear diff, that is made for the "350" hp and not a penny more. Thats why it overheats.
It is more or less a heavy FWD car most of the time.
You are just mad because your car is all hype, and once that fades it is just a normal car made to a budget and not the slayer of the dragons that everything think it is.
Trolololol "I have avoided the dumpster fire that are the Focus forums, especially after my 2nd post. Why? Because I'm not really writing this thread for the typical fans of the RS. Those are folks who were deeply in love with the RS long before it was built, and made their minds up about this car long ago. "
Perhaps just accept that the RS is not the best car in the world. its designed for a certain price point, and they wanted 4WD no matter what, so to fit that into the budget they had to use sub standard rear diff, that is made for the "350" hp and not a penny more. Thats why it overheats.
It is more or less a heavy FWD car most of the time.
You are just mad because your car is all hype, and once that fades it is just a normal car made to a budget and not the slayer of the dragons that everything think it is.
It's particularly good of you to quote that wonderful cop out of a statement which is effectively like saying 'I'll discount any alternative view because I don't believe it's valid as you're just biased'. It's a particular favourite of Trump supporters.
Unfortunately for you, I couldn't be further from their wonderful stereotype. I've never owned a Ford (coming from 4 VAG products and a Porsche), I actually work in vehicle attribute development and engineering, and was incredibly skeptical when the car came out. I went and test drove one though, and by Jove, it was bloody fantastic. Everything a Golf R was allegedly meant to be but wasn't. A fun, rear biased and rapid hot hatch. And add to that, a modern car that actually requires you to use more than 10% of the throttle travel and actually gets more entertaining, the more you push it. Kind of the antithesis to the modern sports car which flatters crap drivers with hyper alert steering and overly pointy chassis which fall to pieces once you actually start driving them hard.
I'd genuinely be interested to hear your summary from the vast experience that you clearly have of the Focus? I'm always fascinated to hear the well considered, expert feedback that a keyboard warrior has gleaned from a few misinformed internet form posts.
nickfrog said:
I totally agree with that.
I would much prefer a sorted 3-door front drive hatchback with a proper diff, 200kgs less and £15k less even with 75hp less, particularly for my use on track.
But if we all liked the same thing etc...
Because the world is literally over flowing with car companies who will sell you a brand new FWD touring car that has 270bhp with an LSD. Oh no wait. It's not 2002 anymore is it?I would much prefer a sorted 3-door front drive hatchback with a proper diff, 200kgs less and £15k less even with 75hp less, particularly for my use on track.
But if we all liked the same thing etc...
And if you mention the Megane, may I remind you that it's not for sale anymore...
Matt p said:
Hey everyone we've got a gen you wine ford fanboy do you sport tribal tattoos and bald head?.
Full head of hair - thought Tribal tattoos was a Jap scene thing, no urge to get tattoos here and the hair hasn't fallen out since July when the car landed.First ford so not really on the first rung of fanboy status....
RacerMike said:
Because the world is literally over flowing with car companies who will sell you a brand new FWD touring car that has 270bhp with an LSD. Oh no wait. It's not 2002 anymore is it?
And if you mention the Megane, may I remind you that it's not for sale anymore...
Not too bothered as I bought one of the last ones - the Leon or Golf clubsport would/will be good alternatives even if more pricey. And those are available in 2016.And if you mention the Megane, may I remind you that it's not for sale anymore...
nickfrog said:
Not too bothered as I bought one of the last ones - the Leon or Golf clubsport would/will be good alternatives even if more pricey. And those are available in 2016.
Neither of those are anywhere near £15k though are they? Even the Megane was well over £25k with any of the decent options.RacerMike said:
Neither of those are anywhere near £15k though are they? Even the Megane was well over £25k with any of the decent options.
Sorry but I didn't say £15k, I said £15k less than a similar spec Focus RS. My Meg 275 Cup-S was just under £20k with Recaros, MP, Nav/data logging etc etc. But it was a run out model so difficult to compare indeed.Still the Seat can be had for around £25k new, which is still cheaper than an equivalent spec FRS and would be my choice for a variety of reasons, including weight and ensuing consumables wear for track use.
I have nothing against the 1600kgs FRS but having experienced first hand how hard it is on tyres/brakes this summer, even at Spa, I think it's best suited for the road, which is hardly surprising for a road car. Harris has in interesting take on it too http://www.topgear.com/videos/chris-harris-drives/...
Come to think of it, the Honda CTR does fit the bill quite nicely in terms of layout, it's deffo not 2002.;)
Again, each to their own.
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 17th October 14:42
Fuldhat said:
Yes even Chris Harris agrees with me. Golf R just as fast, should have been FWD, as it just a heavy FWD and over hyped!
Interesting. In your experience, when you drove it, how did you find the on power neutralisation of the chassis and mild oversteer? Personally I really like it, but would be really really interested to hear you first hand experience of it? I appreciate that everyone judges these things differently, hence it's really interesting to hear what other people have to say about the car after driving it. What roads did you drive it on, and how long did you drive it for? I guess it was a pretty extensive test given the opinion you were able to form about its chassis dynamics.RacerMike said:
Trolololol
It's particularly good of you to quote that wonderful cop out of a statement which is effectively like saying 'I'll discount any alternative view because I don't believe it's valid as you're just biased'. It's a particular favourite of Trump supporters.
Unfortunately for you, I couldn't be further from their wonderful stereotype. I've never owned a Ford (coming from 4 VAG products and a Porsche), I actually work in vehicle attribute development and engineering, and was incredibly skeptical when the car came out. I went and test drove one though, and by Jove, it was bloody fantastic. Everything a Golf R was allegedly meant to be but wasn't. A fun, rear biased and rapid hot hatch. And add to that, a modern car that actually requires you to use more than 10% of the throttle travel and actually gets more entertaining, the more you push it. Kind of the antithesis to the modern sports car which flatters crap drivers with hyper alert steering and overly pointy chassis which fall to pieces once you actually start driving them hard.
I'd genuinely be interested to hear your summary from the vast experience that you clearly have of the Focus? I'm always fascinated to hear the well considered, expert feedback that a keyboard warrior has gleaned from a few misinformed internet form posts.
It is a very valid reason as fanboys will disregard any fault of their car, and say the ones that says that are noobs, hillbillys ect. Even they cleary have much more experience with a lot of different cars than people here.It's particularly good of you to quote that wonderful cop out of a statement which is effectively like saying 'I'll discount any alternative view because I don't believe it's valid as you're just biased'. It's a particular favourite of Trump supporters.
Unfortunately for you, I couldn't be further from their wonderful stereotype. I've never owned a Ford (coming from 4 VAG products and a Porsche), I actually work in vehicle attribute development and engineering, and was incredibly skeptical when the car came out. I went and test drove one though, and by Jove, it was bloody fantastic. Everything a Golf R was allegedly meant to be but wasn't. A fun, rear biased and rapid hot hatch. And add to that, a modern car that actually requires you to use more than 10% of the throttle travel and actually gets more entertaining, the more you push it. Kind of the antithesis to the modern sports car which flatters crap drivers with hyper alert steering and overly pointy chassis which fall to pieces once you actually start driving them hard.
I'd genuinely be interested to hear your summary from the vast experience that you clearly have of the Focus? I'm always fascinated to hear the well considered, expert feedback that a keyboard warrior has gleaned from a few misinformed internet form posts.
I tested one for 1 hour on twisty backroads in sweden, where there is alot of room to go fast and came the same conclusion. It is overhyped, only fast from a stand still. once you are up to speed any 300 hp car will walk it Regarding the handling, then you could feel the weight of the car and understeer came when pushed. (The head of development of the RS at Ford stood there like a tool, saying all other cars in this bracket understeered and his RS was perfect. What a load of bulls
t, The RS understeers just a much as the next overweight FWD car.The problems with overheating, I have heard from several people at the ring, and read alot of about it. You dont have to personal experience to know stuff. That is the reason books are invented and why people go to school. So just because you test drove one, is not the same as have tracked it multiple times. Thats when a car shows it true colors. Any car can go down a normal road and be fine.
Everyone is so overhyped about 4WD, as people think they are launched it full throttle at every greenlight on normal roads.
Edited by Fuldhat on Monday 17th October 14:55
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff