RE: Focus RS owners offered 'free repair'
Discussion
caterham2 said:
As an owner of one of these "dodgy" RS Focus I can report that the head gasket problem was caused by an error in the supply chain by the gasket supplier. The motor as you will know is based on the Mustang Ecoboost engine, also used in the now deceased Falcon
in Australia, neither of which apparently have had an issue. There are 3 versions of the head gasket, first one was dropped almost immediately and 2 other versions used. In the supply chain the supplier gave Ford a batch of gaskets meant for the Mustang head not the distinctly but subtlety different RS version . There is a difference in the coolant transfer passages in the head, thus a different gasket. Most of "the sky is falling" hysteria on the forums is just that. No reputable manufacturer would not address an issue in the appropriate manner.
Well said, however you'll struggle with sound and reasoned logic like that.in Australia, neither of which apparently have had an issue. There are 3 versions of the head gasket, first one was dropped almost immediately and 2 other versions used. In the supply chain the supplier gave Ford a batch of gaskets meant for the Mustang head not the distinctly but subtlety different RS version . There is a difference in the coolant transfer passages in the head, thus a different gasket. Most of "the sky is falling" hysteria on the forums is just that. No reputable manufacturer would not address an issue in the appropriate manner.
Had an interesting read about the issue, exactly as you've described, and the how the subtle differences between components for each model contributed to this problem.
Ford have done a fair job IMO to stipulate "regardless of warranty", and therefore honour repairs to modified cars.
The RS badge, and Ford models throughout time, have always been the focus of the aftermarket scene, and Ford seem to respect that ..... even dipping more than a toe in with their Mountune kit.
If there were a good value PCP deal I would have probably had an RS by now, and will be considering a used one maybe later this year ...... with a nice certificate to confirm it's been "corrected"
mat205125 said:
Well said, however you'll struggle with sound and reasoned logic like that.
Had an interesting read about the issue, exactly as you've described, and the how the subtle differences between components for each model contributed to this problem.
Ford have done a fair job IMO to stipulate "regardless of warranty", and therefore honour repairs to modified cars.
The RS badge, and Ford models throughout time, have always been the focus of the aftermarket scene, and Ford seem to respect that ..... even dipping more than a toe in with their Mountune kit.
If there were a good value PCP deal I would have probably had an RS by now, and will be considering a used one maybe later this year ...... with a nice certificate to confirm it's been "corrected"
Although I have one already if I was in the market again then I'd have no hesitation to buy one having been repaired with the extended warranty which is transferable and I'd get one with as many warranty approved Mountune parts as I could find!Had an interesting read about the issue, exactly as you've described, and the how the subtle differences between components for each model contributed to this problem.
Ford have done a fair job IMO to stipulate "regardless of warranty", and therefore honour repairs to modified cars.
The RS badge, and Ford models throughout time, have always been the focus of the aftermarket scene, and Ford seem to respect that ..... even dipping more than a toe in with their Mountune kit.
If there were a good value PCP deal I would have probably had an RS by now, and will be considering a used one maybe later this year ...... with a nice certificate to confirm it's been "corrected"
IanJ9375 said:
Why? Everyone gets a gasket, they pressure test to check for porosity of the head and in the event it needs a head it will get one of those also, even a new engine in the event it's gone beyond that.
Because of potential engine failures down the road. If its the gasket and they replace it prior to failure and this solves the problem then great
If the revised gasket does not fix the issue due to other underlying issues and owners get repeated failures like warped heads/blocks the cars will not be fun to run outside warranty
liner33 said:
Because of potential engine failures down the road.
If its the gasket and they replace it prior to failure and this solves the problem then great
If the revised gasket does not fix the issue due to other underlying issues and owners get repeated failures like warped heads/blocks the cars will not be fun to run outside warranty
As I said they aren't just bunging a gasket on and throwing it back at you, they are checking the head and depending what they find you'll end up with just the gasket/gasket and new head/new engineIf its the gasket and they replace it prior to failure and this solves the problem then great
If the revised gasket does not fix the issue due to other underlying issues and owners get repeated failures like warped heads/blocks the cars will not be fun to run outside warranty
You still have the remainder of the warranty, extended in my case to 5yrs
IanJ9375 said:
As I said they aren't just bunging a gasket on and throwing it back at you, they are checking the head and depending what they find you'll end up with just the gasket/gasket and new head/new engine
You still have the remainder of the warranty, extended in my case to 5yrs
Yeah I appreciate that but if the gasket is only part of the problem you have a car thats not going to be in demand outside of warranty and will have dreadful residuals You still have the remainder of the warranty, extended in my case to 5yrs
From what I have heard post July 17 engines with the revised gasket have still had head gasket issues
liner33 said:
Yeah I appreciate that but if the gasket is only part of the problem you have a car thats not going to be in demand outside of warranty and will have dreadful residuals
From what I have heard post July 17 engines with the revised gasket have still had head gasket issues
So exactly where is your pessimistic attitude to future engine issues with this car coming from then? Ford are covering all cars, whether inside or outside of the warranty period, on any/all year models of the MK3 RS.From what I have heard post July 17 engines with the revised gasket have still had head gasket issues
The engine issues, as far as i'm aware, all have the same symptoms so it should be the same problem that's cropping up. Once it's fixed and resolved, i don't see why it should happen again or any other issues.
Have you actually read the whole article in full, as apposed to repeating stuff you've heard elsewhere and other comments on here before posting? It's not just the early batches that are suffering, as previously thought.
liner33 said:
From what I have heard post July 17 engines with the revised gasket have still had head gasket issues
Really? where did you hear this from, I'm interested in case I do get one and if it's not the suggested HG issue but something else then I'd love to know. Where is the source of this info?liner33 said:
Yeah I appreciate that but if the gasket is only part of the problem you have a car thats not going to be in demand outside of warranty and will have dreadful residuals
From what I have heard post July 17 engines with the revised gasket have still had head gasket issues
You realise that you could expect some failures for any car right?From what I have heard post July 17 engines with the revised gasket have still had head gasket issues
The old adage just because a cat was born in a stable doesn't make it a horse
Ford are fixing it, not sure what else you are expecting them to do?
caterham2 said:
As an owner of one of these "dodgy" RS Focus I can report that the head gasket problem was caused by an error in the supply chain by the gasket supplier. The motor as you will know is based on the Mustang Ecoboost engine, also used in the now deceased Falcon
in Australia, neither of which apparently have had an issue. There are 3 versions of the head gasket, first one was dropped almost immediately and 2 other versions used. In the supply chain the supplier gave Ford a batch of gaskets meant for the Mustang head not the distinctly but subtlety different RS version . There is a difference in the coolant transfer passages in the head, thus a different gasket. Most of "the sky is falling" hysteria on the forums is just that. No reputable manufacturer would not address an issue in the appropriate manner.
Indeed, but ignorance will dictate among the clinically stupid that an entire car brand is derided over a part they didn't even make.in Australia, neither of which apparently have had an issue. There are 3 versions of the head gasket, first one was dropped almost immediately and 2 other versions used. In the supply chain the supplier gave Ford a batch of gaskets meant for the Mustang head not the distinctly but subtlety different RS version . There is a difference in the coolant transfer passages in the head, thus a different gasket. Most of "the sky is falling" hysteria on the forums is just that. No reputable manufacturer would not address an issue in the appropriate manner.
culpz said:
So exactly where is your pessimistic attitude to future engine issues with this car coming from then? Ford are covering all cars, whether inside or outside of the warranty period, on any/all year models of the MK3 RS.
The engine issues, as far as i'm aware, all have the same symptoms so it should be the same problem that's cropping up. Once it's fixed and resolved, i don't see why it should happen again or any other issues.
Have you actually read the whole article in full, as apposed to repeating stuff you've heard elsewhere and other comments on here before posting? It's not just the early batches that are suffering, as previously thought.
I've read quite a lot on it (Mainly US as the cars are more popular there) and watched a few videos, PH is not a font of knowledge on them in my experience, I'm in the market for a new car and seriously considering the Focus so have a genuine interest The engine issues, as far as i'm aware, all have the same symptoms so it should be the same problem that's cropping up. Once it's fixed and resolved, i don't see why it should happen again or any other issues.
Have you actually read the whole article in full, as apposed to repeating stuff you've heard elsewhere and other comments on here before posting? It's not just the early batches that are suffering, as previously thought.
It seems to me that the issue is likely overheating, Ford think that this is due to the head gasket design, others as mentioned in that article think that the block itself is prone to warping, I have heard of one block so out of true that you could fit a penny under a straight edge across it , there isnt a gasket made that could cope with that kind of warp.
I really don't want to spend £30k plus and then have to have repeated visits to Ford to sort out engine issues, that would become tiresome.
What Ford say in 2018 regarding covering cars even out of warranty might not be the same once when the cars get to 3 or more years old , there are plenty of precedents where manufacturers have washed their hands on issues like this.
liner33 said:
I've read quite a lot on it (Mainly US as the cars are more popular there) and watched a few videos, PH is not a font of knowledge on them in my experience, I'm in the market for a new car and seriously considering the Focus so have a genuine interest
It seems to me that the issue is likely overheating, Ford think that this is due to the head gasket design, others as mentioned in that article think that the block itself is prone to warping, I have heard of one block so out of true that you could fit a penny under a straight edge across it , there isnt a gasket made that could cope with that kind of warp.
I really don't want to spend £30k plus and then have to have repeated visits to Ford to sort out engine issues, that would become tiresome.
What Ford say in 2018 regarding covering cars even out of warranty might not be the same once when the cars get to 3 or more years old , there are plenty of precedents where manufacturers have washed their hands on issues like this.
All of these issues were attributed to the issue with gasket supply. One of the main tuners in the States infact released a video a few weeks ago explaining their belief that all the cracked block issue were due to the failure of the HG causing astronomical cylinder pressures which cause secondary failures. It seems to me that the issue is likely overheating, Ford think that this is due to the head gasket design, others as mentioned in that article think that the block itself is prone to warping, I have heard of one block so out of true that you could fit a penny under a straight edge across it , there isnt a gasket made that could cope with that kind of warp.
I really don't want to spend £30k plus and then have to have repeated visits to Ford to sort out engine issues, that would become tiresome.
What Ford say in 2018 regarding covering cars even out of warranty might not be the same once when the cars get to 3 or more years old , there are plenty of precedents where manufacturers have washed their hands on issues like this.
Ford have been cagey about a fix until now as they've been bottoming out the cause. The offering of recall is now happening as they have identified and verified the original cause, which as reported in many places, is likely the incorrect supply and fitment of Mustang HGs to Focus RS heads.
liner33 said:
culpz said:
So exactly where is your pessimistic attitude to future engine issues with this car coming from then? Ford are covering all cars, whether inside or outside of the warranty period, on any/all year models of the MK3 RS.
The engine issues, as far as i'm aware, all have the same symptoms so it should be the same problem that's cropping up. Once it's fixed and resolved, i don't see why it should happen again or any other issues.
Have you actually read the whole article in full, as apposed to repeating stuff you've heard elsewhere and other comments on here before posting? It's not just the early batches that are suffering, as previously thought.
I've read quite a lot on it (Mainly US as the cars are more popular there) and watched a few videos, PH is not a font of knowledge on them in my experience, I'm in the market for a new car and seriously considering the Focus so have a genuine interest The engine issues, as far as i'm aware, all have the same symptoms so it should be the same problem that's cropping up. Once it's fixed and resolved, i don't see why it should happen again or any other issues.
Have you actually read the whole article in full, as apposed to repeating stuff you've heard elsewhere and other comments on here before posting? It's not just the early batches that are suffering, as previously thought.
It seems to me that the issue is likely overheating, Ford think that this is due to the head gasket design, others as mentioned in that article think that the block itself is prone to warping, I have heard of one block so out of true that you could fit a penny under a straight edge across it , there isnt a gasket made that could cope with that kind of warp.
I really don't want to spend £30k plus and then have to have repeated visits to Ford to sort out engine issues, that would become tiresome.
What Ford say in 2018 regarding covering cars even out of warranty might not be the same once when the cars get to 3 or more years old , there are plenty of precedents where manufacturers have washed their hands on issues like this.
The easy thing to do is to not buy one and wait and see. It hasn't stopped people buying Golf R's, despite the first batches of those had their turbos let go. They clearly rectified it so i reckon Ford will be able to do the same.
nickfrog said:
Supply of the wrong type of HG seems very likely - the assumption is that if there was an inherent overheating issue that would have been detected in destruction testing very quickly, even with the correct HG. Surely they monitor engine temps.
Poor QC somewhere in the process.
culpz said:
You appear to be wildy over-complicating and overthinking the whole matter. I wouldn't worry, as your not alone here and it appears that others share a similar mindset to you. This is just my opinion on the subject.
Quite possibly but with background of tuning and building 4 cylinder turbocharged engines I suspect have a greater interests than many owners. liner33 said:
culpz said:
You appear to be wildy over-complicating and overthinking the whole matter. I wouldn't worry, as your not alone here and it appears that others share a similar mindset to you. This is just my opinion on the subject.
Quite possibly but with background of tuning and building 4 cylinder turbocharged engines I suspect have a greater interests than many owners. However, If them admitting fault and offering a free fix, with or without warranty intact, isn't good enough for you, then nothing will be.
I'd probably suggest looking elsewhere. In today's market, you're spoilt for choice for 4-cylinder turbocharged hot-hatches.
Good luck on the hunt.
Edited by culpz on Thursday 25th January 13:50
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