RE: Jean-Marc Gales exits Lotus
Discussion
lowdrag said:
A month or two back Gales deputy Mr. Manwaring quit Lotus and is now MD of CKL Developments, specialists in classic Jaguars and racing preparation. Now Gales has gone to another specialist classic Jaguar company, J D Classics,but one with at the moment a very tainted reputation and subject to a £9 million court case. What interests me is that Gales has stepped straight across with no gardening leave required. It all seems a bit strange to me. I assume that the founder of JD Classics has now been quietly retired and that they are now trying to turn the page.
Why would he need 'gardening leave' when he's not moving to a competitor company? If you mean notice period, then I assume he gave his bosses the appropriate notice, and the move is only just being made public now.What is strange is why motor industry executives would be leaving serious roles to head up some glorified classic car garages.
GranCab said:
Exige77 said:
GranCab said:
Who needs a Lotus SUV, built in China, for the vast Chinese market when there is already a cracking Chinese-built SUV that carries the marque of a great British (defunct) sports car manufacturer ....
How many F1 world championships did MG win again ? 
I don’t think you can compare MG & Lotus heritage. It would be really silly wouldn’t it ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG-Lola_EX257
thegreenhell said:
lowdrag said:
A month or two back Gales deputy Mr. Manwaring quit Lotus and is now MD of CKL Developments, specialists in classic Jaguars and racing preparation. Now Gales has gone to another specialist classic Jaguar company, J D Classics,but one with at the moment a very tainted reputation and subject to a £9 million court case. What interests me is that Gales has stepped straight across with no gardening leave required. It all seems a bit strange to me. I assume that the founder of JD Classics has now been quietly retired and that they are now trying to turn the page.
Why would he need 'gardening leave' when he's not moving to a competitor company? If you mean notice period, then I assume he gave his bosses the appropriate notice, and the move is only just being made public now.What is strange is why motor industry executives would be leaving serious roles to head up some glorified classic car garages.
DonkeyApple said:
ESOG said:
I'll tell you what a TRUE "diseased mentality" is....
It is thinking that Lotus feels it must jump into the SUV producing pool and thinking people will actually buy such a product from them. I am truly astounded how there isn't more of an uproar and written\voiced opinion on the matter.
FOR GODSSAKE LOTUS FORGET ABOUT THIS SUV NONSENSE AND FRIGGEN BUILD AN AFFORDABLE FUN ELAN LIKE CAR ALREADY!!!! Think the 90s; ELAN M100, MR2s, S2000's, Miata, etc. Be the leader in that class.
Unfortunately basic economics says that you are wrong. No one wants cheap little sports cars. Even the king is dead. Mazda has to find a partner to justify the last incarnation of the MX5. And they are a global manufacturer able to bring full economies of scale and cheap third world labour to bear. Conversely, the whole world wants an SUV, they are hugely profitable regardless of the end of the market and so fat that Lotus could make a real impact if they actually built a Lotus SUV rather than rebadging something. It is thinking that Lotus feels it must jump into the SUV producing pool and thinking people will actually buy such a product from them. I am truly astounded how there isn't more of an uproar and written\voiced opinion on the matter.
FOR GODSSAKE LOTUS FORGET ABOUT THIS SUV NONSENSE AND FRIGGEN BUILD AN AFFORDABLE FUN ELAN LIKE CAR ALREADY!!!! Think the 90s; ELAN M100, MR2s, S2000's, Miata, etc. Be the leader in that class.
If Mazda cannot even make a cheap sports car anymore without help just how would Lotus do this?
Unfortunately, in order to build the little sports cars we love but the mass market doesn't, a manufacturer like Lotus needs a regular income source from something like a SUV. It hasn't served Porsche too badly.
itcaptainslow said:
DonkeyApple said:
ESOG said:
I'll tell you what a TRUE "diseased mentality" is....
It is thinking that Lotus feels it must jump into the SUV producing pool and thinking people will actually buy such a product from them. I am truly astounded how there isn't more of an uproar and written\voiced opinion on the matter.
FOR GODSSAKE LOTUS FORGET ABOUT THIS SUV NONSENSE AND FRIGGEN BUILD AN AFFORDABLE FUN ELAN LIKE CAR ALREADY!!!! Think the 90s; ELAN M100, MR2s, S2000's, Miata, etc. Be the leader in that class.
Unfortunately basic economics says that you are wrong. No one wants cheap little sports cars. Even the king is dead. Mazda has to find a partner to justify the last incarnation of the MX5. And they are a global manufacturer able to bring full economies of scale and cheap third world labour to bear. Conversely, the whole world wants an SUV, they are hugely profitable regardless of the end of the market and so fat that Lotus could make a real impact if they actually built a Lotus SUV rather than rebadging something. It is thinking that Lotus feels it must jump into the SUV producing pool and thinking people will actually buy such a product from them. I am truly astounded how there isn't more of an uproar and written\voiced opinion on the matter.
FOR GODSSAKE LOTUS FORGET ABOUT THIS SUV NONSENSE AND FRIGGEN BUILD AN AFFORDABLE FUN ELAN LIKE CAR ALREADY!!!! Think the 90s; ELAN M100, MR2s, S2000's, Miata, etc. Be the leader in that class.
If Mazda cannot even make a cheap sports car anymore without help just how would Lotus do this?
Unfortunately, in order to build the little sports cars we love but the mass market doesn't, a manufacturer like Lotus needs a regular income source from something like a SUV. It hasn't served Porsche too badly.
The MX5/GT86 can't be compared to the Lotus models, totally different brand (prestige vs mainstream) and totally different price point. Apart from being small sports cars they have nothing in common (power, performance, production methods, desirability, etc)
I don't want a Lotus SUV, I am sure many 911 owners didn't want an SUV either but fundamentally this is about business.
thegreenhell said:
lowdrag said:
A month or two back Gales deputy Mr. Manwaring quit Lotus and is now MD of CKL Developments, specialists in classic Jaguars and racing preparation. Now Gales has gone to another specialist classic Jaguar company, J D Classics,but one with at the moment a very tainted reputation and subject to a £9 million court case. What interests me is that Gales has stepped straight across with no gardening leave required. It all seems a bit strange to me. I assume that the founder of JD Classics has now been quietly retired and that they are now trying to turn the page.
Why would he need 'gardening leave' when he's not moving to a competitor company? If you mean notice period, then I assume he gave his bosses the appropriate notice, and the move is only just being made public now.What is strange is why motor industry executives would be leaving serious roles to head up some glorified classic car garages.
He’s mid fifties, has a strong track record and is at a stage in life where can do various things. It looks like he chosen to go “plural” and do a few roles. As for JD whilst it may have some legacy issues to contend with there is now some serious PE money behind it and I can see why it would be an attractive role.
For what it's worth, I think it's a shame Jean-Marc has left Lotus. But it was going to be inevitable with Geely wanting their own person at the helm.
True the range never expanded in a typical fashion with new cars, but he inherited a sinking ship that had been holed by Danny Bahar.
There was never going to be money to rival Porsche, Ferrari, Aston or whoever you think Lotus should rival. Neither was there going to be funds to invest in 10 speed auto gear boxes or magical electronic LSDs, let alone create an F1 team or some other crazy ideas.
And I think unfortunately he had to cut staff numbers because of the lack of money too.
To be honest, if he hadn't steadied the ship it would have sank, let alone become a worthwhile investment and positive asset to an organisation the size of Geely. And as many people have said, look what they have done with Volvo.
True the range never expanded in a typical fashion with new cars, but he inherited a sinking ship that had been holed by Danny Bahar.
There was never going to be money to rival Porsche, Ferrari, Aston or whoever you think Lotus should rival. Neither was there going to be funds to invest in 10 speed auto gear boxes or magical electronic LSDs, let alone create an F1 team or some other crazy ideas.
And I think unfortunately he had to cut staff numbers because of the lack of money too.
To be honest, if he hadn't steadied the ship it would have sank, let alone become a worthwhile investment and positive asset to an organisation the size of Geely. And as many people have said, look what they have done with Volvo.
The simple facts are that the market for sports cars is these days tiny and much smaller than it was when the S1 Elise was launched. Think how many sports cars/roadsters were in production back in the mid/late 90s......literally scores of them.
The situation now is very different. For whatever the reason, that's not what the buying public now wants - they don't want sports cars, they also don't want saloons, estates or MPV's either. Like it or loathe it SUV's are where it's at if you want to have a successful car business.
So, Lotus has to make something more mainstream like an SUV to ensure any kind of long term future, a business has to make a profit for long term survival, or it eventually runs out of cash.
Sure, it's not everyone's first choice but maybe the SUV business will provide enough funds for the sports car side of the business. It's worked for Porsche, and without the SUV's Porsche would probably be loss making too, however great the product. There just isn't enough volume to be viable on sports cars alone.....which is presumably why Lotus' prices have crept up over the years.
The situation now is very different. For whatever the reason, that's not what the buying public now wants - they don't want sports cars, they also don't want saloons, estates or MPV's either. Like it or loathe it SUV's are where it's at if you want to have a successful car business.
So, Lotus has to make something more mainstream like an SUV to ensure any kind of long term future, a business has to make a profit for long term survival, or it eventually runs out of cash.
Sure, it's not everyone's first choice but maybe the SUV business will provide enough funds for the sports car side of the business. It's worked for Porsche, and without the SUV's Porsche would probably be loss making too, however great the product. There just isn't enough volume to be viable on sports cars alone.....which is presumably why Lotus' prices have crept up over the years.
PtheP said:
I see 'Lotus' and 'SUV' in the same sentence and my heart sinks.
I share the same view with only one caveat. If they copy Porsche and others who produce an SUV, cos that's what people want, and that allow them to continue to build , in lotus' case , lightweight striped out track cars then that is all fine.A lotus SUV does seem a bit of a stretch as I don't think Lotus has that premium perception required for sales of chelsea tractors sales.
I haven't done any research so the above is just my opinion and likely wrong.
John145 said:
Colin Chapman's mentality was not a simple philosophy of light is best.
It was to make each part of a car do as many jobs as possible and as such lightness will follow.
Look at the cars released by Lotus when ACBC was still alive for what is true Lotus philosophy.
The current Elise and Exige stripped out racecars for the road are the exception and not the norm.
Lotus's role now within this group should be the HQ for advanced technology development with the car manufacturing being a method of showing off what their engineers can do.
Imagine a fully active car, new carbon fibre/aluminiun/steel structure that is light and has Lotus feel.
I know the idea of a modern Lotus scares people but it really shouldn't. There is a gap in the market for an active and light car. The lightest fully active Porsche is 1400kg!
Just imagine an Exige with Lotus dynamics minus the compromises. I'm thinking accurate steering feel on the roughest b roads, limit handling performance which is linear up to Vmax, active dynamics that let you push harder on the track.
There is the alternative view that they should just be simple and cheap cars. Imo this is and never was Lotus. Lotus was a leader and should strive to be a leader again.
i see more where you're coming from now John.It was to make each part of a car do as many jobs as possible and as such lightness will follow.
Look at the cars released by Lotus when ACBC was still alive for what is true Lotus philosophy.
The current Elise and Exige stripped out racecars for the road are the exception and not the norm.
Lotus's role now within this group should be the HQ for advanced technology development with the car manufacturing being a method of showing off what their engineers can do.
Imagine a fully active car, new carbon fibre/aluminiun/steel structure that is light and has Lotus feel.
I know the idea of a modern Lotus scares people but it really shouldn't. There is a gap in the market for an active and light car. The lightest fully active Porsche is 1400kg!
Just imagine an Exige with Lotus dynamics minus the compromises. I'm thinking accurate steering feel on the roughest b roads, limit handling performance which is linear up to Vmax, active dynamics that let you push harder on the track.
There is the alternative view that they should just be simple and cheap cars. Imo this is and never was Lotus. Lotus was a leader and should strive to be a leader again.
A lot of us commenting here want a simple, analogue, mechanical and light car for driving pleasure. A more grown up Caterham if you like. That's our hope despite it not being commercially viable!
Commercially Geely may choose to develop Hethel in to a centre of engineering excellence (again), but given it's so depleted they could do that anywhere. I actually think they will though, as the UK is a good place for that and there's still a kernel left!
What i'm sure they will do is leverage the Lotus brand, especially in the east. Expect to see adverts celebrating Jim Clark collecting the chequered flag and holding lots of trophies. That audience will also demand the highest of high tech. So i totally agree that active handling is necessary and that Chapman himself would have been ahead of the curve seizing an opportunity. I just selfishly want a pure weekend car with passive suspension. Maybe Caterham can get the moulds for the Elise? I fully realise my personal wishes are different to commercial viability.
ESOG said:
Yes I completely agree with going the Tesla route. Make a fun AFFORDABLE hybrid like Elan
Tesla don’t make Hybrids.....full EV’s only. Big difference! And there already is a “Lotus” EV. It was made by Tesla and it’s anything but affordable as such tech is still extremely expensive.In your dream world, an “affordable” Lotus Elan hybrid will mean a rebodied Prius given the Toyota tech relationship, and total lack of funds to develop a new platform. And then no one would buy it as it’d be crap, and the people on here who say it’s what they want could only afford one once it’s 10 years old.
Geely is looking to go upmarket with Lynk&Co, Volvo and Polestar.
Lotus is a name with much more kudos than those. I can see the argument for an SUV cash cow. I don't want to have to leave the room (I can't reach the keyboard if I do) so I'll point out that the Urus is expected to double Lamborghini's sales.
Simon
Lotus is a name with much more kudos than those. I can see the argument for an SUV cash cow. I don't want to have to leave the room (I can't reach the keyboard if I do) so I'll point out that the Urus is expected to double Lamborghini's sales.
Simon
I can't help thinking that one of the reasons for needing an SUV is simply that sports cars are hugely more complex today and have minimal economies of scale. Lotus (and the others) can't afford to develop their cars and sell them in such low numbers. In the 80s Lotus's were mostly (like all cars) very simple.
4oClock said:
For what it's worth, I think it's a shame Jean-Marc has left Lotus. But it was going to be inevitable with Geely wanting their own person at the helm.
True the range never expanded in a typical fashion with new cars, but he inherited a sinking ship that had been holed by Danny Bahar.
There was never going to be money to rival Porsche, Ferrari, Aston or whoever you think Lotus should rival. Neither was there going to be funds to invest in 10 speed auto gear boxes or magical electronic LSDs, let alone create an F1 team or some other crazy ideas.
And I think unfortunately he had to cut staff numbers because of the lack of money too.
To be honest, if he hadn't steadied the ship it would have sank, let alone become a worthwhile investment and positive asset to an organisation the size of Geely. And as many people have said, look what they have done with Volvo.
Yep, agreed. Was it inevitable he'd go though? Did the head of Volvo go too? I got the impression Geely tended to let the companies get on with it with minimal; interference.True the range never expanded in a typical fashion with new cars, but he inherited a sinking ship that had been holed by Danny Bahar.
There was never going to be money to rival Porsche, Ferrari, Aston or whoever you think Lotus should rival. Neither was there going to be funds to invest in 10 speed auto gear boxes or magical electronic LSDs, let alone create an F1 team or some other crazy ideas.
And I think unfortunately he had to cut staff numbers because of the lack of money too.
To be honest, if he hadn't steadied the ship it would have sank, let alone become a worthwhile investment and positive asset to an organisation the size of Geely. And as many people have said, look what they have done with Volvo.
As you said JMG cut costs and boosted sales and improved the cars. New models are in progress despite little money. He did a good job IMO.
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