RE: Jaguar Land Rover facing "perfect storm"
Discussion
Turfy said:
Guys, you are all wrong. Every article links the job losses directly to Brexit...!
Nothing to do with a Chinese company moving staff admin/management jobs to China to cut costs and the diesel issues/lack of demand thereof!!
No thats just the German CEO crying about the UK leaving the EU and using it as a scapegoat. Nothing to do with a Chinese company moving staff admin/management jobs to China to cut costs and the diesel issues/lack of demand thereof!!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Having spoken to some JLR employees, it's very tempting (and lucrative) for JLR to brand models Range Rover as it's a much easier sell to the public due to the brand. It also allows younger customer (read poorer) access to the brand which they hope will lead to loyalty and RR sales later in life. Just look at the efforts Merc have made in the last 15yrs to attract a younger customer. (even running an F1 team!!!)For me Jaguar is a problem, they are maybe 2 model generations behind BMW and Merc as well as having scale to content with. JLR produce maybe 50k XE's compared to approx 500k 3 series. That's a tough sell to anyone not a Jag fan.
RemyMartin81D said:
I can only surmise that Volvo's ongoing success is due to the build and fit and materials. My dad has an almost boggo V40. 2.0 diesel , no T number only real luxury is heated leather seats and I'm not exaggerating the leather in it is of a higher standard than any BMW or other German car I've ever seen. It's beautiful and very soft. If they care that much lower down the order it's no wonder people buy them.
People are simple other than petrol heads, no one wants performance. People want luxury and reliability at a sensible cost.
Also must have competive lease deals too.
Volvo has done a good job because they simplified the product portfolio and took some strong medicine 6/7 years ago. You could have argued exactly the same for JLR 18 months ago and some of the issues that we're discussing on this thread also have the potential to impact Volvo. The volume Is pretty similar but the margin on much Volvo product portfolio ain't superb. People are simple other than petrol heads, no one wants performance. People want luxury and reliability at a sensible cost.
Also must have competive lease deals too.
One of the other key reasons of course is the (extremely) cheap Chinese Government money syphoned through Geely that has funded their current product lineup...
Dale487 said:
LimaDelta said:
ettore said:
LimaDelta said:
Haltamer said:
It's a shame Jag don't diversify from the Diesel saloon model - I think they need to.
As someone else mentioned, some sports coupes (cheaper than their existing offering) for some larger market appeal, a-la MX5, and even a hatchback would be interesting to see.
I disagree, it is this all-things-to-all-men approach which is responsible for the dilution of brands now. Jaguar should have stuck to the high performance saloon sector, and LR to the farm/estate owner market. They are trying to emulate the German brands with every type of vehicle in their product range. Personally that limits their appeal. They should find their niche and stick with it, not sell out by trying to be a mass-market manufacturer.As someone else mentioned, some sports coupes (cheaper than their existing offering) for some larger market appeal, a-la MX5, and even a hatchback would be interesting to see.
And whilst the current headline of 5000 jobs sounds impressive, anyone with experience of these cost optimisation plans knows that it’s not one big swingeing cut. It’s an unelaborate aggregation of various in-flight or conceived projects to drive efficiencies in all sorts of departments, tied in with some handy VR for those who see an easy way out, and other bits of natural wastage.
Anyway, LimaDelta’s point I think stands. Staying small can be a strategy. If Jaguar & Land Rover had maintained a course of being niche, operating only in sectors they knew well, ratcheting up the quality/premium quotient over time, they could have very well been viable on that alone.
Chasing the Germans over the last decade or so only meant rampant expansion and burgeoning headcount. Chasing BMW, Daimler and Audi in the mid-medium saloon market with stuff like the XE/XF is akin to jogging into a stadium and joining a 400m race from the start, when the race actually began 20 seconds previously.
Daimler are absolutely massive and had big coffers. But it took them decades to have a car on par with BMW in the small saloon sector. The C-class was an also-ran compared to the 3-series for so long. So what made internal management think that a relative financial and industrial weakling like Jaguar feel it could compete?
People yabber about a ‘perfect storm’ for Jaguar with Brexit, China and diesel. But that’s to let management off the hook. Daft expansion without modelling the consequences of a potential inability to compete is the real chicken coming home to roost.
GAFF1974 said:
The British obsession with all things German doesn't help. Even the police don't "drive the flag".
(Yes I know they're owned by TATA but it's as close as you'll get)
I'm going back some time but I remember on Traffic Cops the Central Motorway Policing group had Jags as traffic cars... (Yes I know they're owned by TATA but it's as close as you'll get)
I would have thought it's a pricey car to use in TPAC moves when nudging crims towards the hard shoulder or off the road.Theresa May uses Jags whenever she heads off to Brussels to beg... er I mean secure a better Brexit deal (sure she's due a visit next Tuesday to avoid the vote again)
I see Jags around and about but I think something to take on the likes of the A140 would be good but they might fear of diluting the brand...
86wasagoodyear said:
What else does Jaguar have ?
- Dull XE, with no estate or 4WD option for winter conditions/cold countries
- Dull XF, with no estate or 4WD
- Does the XJ still exist other than in Westminster Gvt cars ?
- F Pace is too big & too expensive
- E Pace is too small & too expensive
- iPace is too early to tell, but electric-only cars are hardly mass-market at the moment & won't be for some years.
A post utterly riddled with errors. Hopeless.- Dull XE, with no estate or 4WD option for winter conditions/cold countries
- Dull XF, with no estate or 4WD
- Does the XJ still exist other than in Westminster Gvt cars ?
- F Pace is too big & too expensive
- E Pace is too small & too expensive
- iPace is too early to tell, but electric-only cars are hardly mass-market at the moment & won't be for some years.
AlexS_LDN said:
GAFF1974 said:
The British obsession with all things German doesn't help. Even the police don't "drive the flag".
(Yes I know they're owned by TATA but it's as close as you'll get)
I'm going back some time but I remember on Traffic Cops the Central Motorway Policing group had Jags as traffic cars... (Yes I know they're owned by TATA but it's as close as you'll get)
I would have thought it's a pricey car to use in TPAC moves when nudging crims towards the hard shoulder or off the road.Theresa May uses Jags whenever she heads off to Brussels to beg... er I mean secure a better Brexit deal (sure she's due a visit next Tuesday to avoid the vote again)
I see Jags around and about but I think something to take on the likes of the A140 would be good but they might fear of diluting the brand...
LimaDelta said:
Kierkegaard said:
You also can't, unfortunately, choose who you sell your cars to and the current trend of expensive cars painted in lurid colours with dark wheels in 'footballer spec' again are victims of all brands.. just look at Bentley and Aston Martin.
Actually, you can. Stop offering cheap lease deals and PCP with artificially high balloon payments. Even a Bentley Bentayga, a £150,000 car can be had for only £1300 a month! The £60k deposit could be borrowed and repaid at about £1000/month so one could be driving around in a monster SUV Bentley for less than £2.5k per month! How is even that aspirational anymore? All of these 'brands' are selling out with their accessibility.
Maybe it is not the manufacturers fault, I guess money is just cheap these days.
Edited by LimaDelta on Thursday 10th January 14:56
Where do you live? In a Saudi Royal Palace?
t people wont come backAlexS_LDN said:
GAFF1974 said:
The British obsession with all things German doesn't help. Even the police don't "drive the flag".
(Yes I know they're owned by TATA but it's as close as you'll get)
I'm going back some time but I remember on Traffic Cops the Central Motorway Policing group had Jags as traffic cars... (Yes I know they're owned by TATA but it's as close as you'll get)
I would have thought it's a pricey car to use in TPAC moves when nudging crims towards the hard shoulder or off the road.Theresa May uses Jags whenever she heads off to Brussels to beg... er I mean secure a better Brexit deal (sure she's due a visit next Tuesday to avoid the vote again)
I see Jags around and about but I think something to take on the likes of the A140 would be good but they might fear of diluting the brand...
Unlike most in this thread I am not going to pretend I could come up with solutions to turn around a large failing car manufacturer. but I do feel really sorry for those losing jobs, and also those facing job lose in future if the company cant be turned around. I hope the government will put up funds to help protect jobs if it gets any worse.
Ed/L152 said:
Is JLR actually doing anything to combat their worldwide reputation for appalling reliability?
Sadly I don’t think they are, the newer Range Rovers seem as badly built/poor quality as the older ones.Saying that I had an L322 Range Rover that never put a foot wrong, then a Sport which did nothing but go wrong!, which unfortunately put me off the brand.
mikey P 500 said:
Unlike most in this thread I am not going to pretend I could come up with solutions to turn around a large failing car manufacturer. but I do feel really sorry for those losing jobs, and also those facing job lose in future if the company cant be turned around. I hope the government will put up funds to help protect jobs if it gets any worse.
Why should there be much sorrow or the government get involved? For a start JLR are a company owned by a massive Indian conglomerate. Why don’t they put their money where it’s required? Jobs weren’t guaranteed throughout the financial crisis, so why should a government be involved in this sideshow?On top of that, this 5000 job thing, isn’t some big sudden axe tomorrow. This is a bog standard grand efficiency programme that the likes of BCG sell up and down the street to many large corporates. Most job losses indicated will be white collar - those masses who have office-y jobs, all the sorts that add unwanted mass and inertia to any large company over time.
Sometimes you need the restructure to clear out some old wood. Sometimes you need a shake of the tree. The savvy will adjudge any VR possibilities, some will jump ship and end up propping up a desk at another office in another company. Many will stay.
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