RE: Next Porsche Macan to be electric only
Discussion
GTEYE said:
So basically in the UK you charge it at home or you’re stuffed.
There simply is not enough public infrastructure and I suspect there’s no cash to pay for one being created.
How many Macan owners live in town with no where to charge a car? There simply is not enough public infrastructure and I suspect there’s no cash to pay for one being created.
I would have gone electric, but simply don't have anywhere to charge my car. So much of the UK is like this.
ICBF to read all the thread, already full of the typical anti ev bulls
t.
here are some facts...
1 - Every home already has electricity
2 - Most cars spend 95% of their time parked and unused
3 - the UK national grid dont see EVs as a problem - actually grid connected cars can lower the overall cost of electricity
4 - even if you cant charge at home most new EVs will have range enough for a once a week charge typically you can do at the supermarket etc
5 - at no point ever will ICE cars be cheaper to run than Evs tax and efficiency wont allow for that
6 - hydrogen isnt an energy source its a storage system that is far far less efficient than directly charging a BEV
7 - waking up every day with a full car means you usually wont have to use a public charger
8 - EVs are quite, smooth, quick and dont choke you on fumes. And you can pre heat them (usually from your phone)
9 - charging standards are getting simpler, CCS/type2 is pretty much it outside of Japan now.
10 - Check plugshare there are many,many fast chargers already and the utilization is quite low (6% afik).
t. here are some facts...
1 - Every home already has electricity
2 - Most cars spend 95% of their time parked and unused
3 - the UK national grid dont see EVs as a problem - actually grid connected cars can lower the overall cost of electricity
4 - even if you cant charge at home most new EVs will have range enough for a once a week charge typically you can do at the supermarket etc
5 - at no point ever will ICE cars be cheaper to run than Evs tax and efficiency wont allow for that
6 - hydrogen isnt an energy source its a storage system that is far far less efficient than directly charging a BEV
7 - waking up every day with a full car means you usually wont have to use a public charger
8 - EVs are quite, smooth, quick and dont choke you on fumes. And you can pre heat them (usually from your phone)
9 - charging standards are getting simpler, CCS/type2 is pretty much it outside of Japan now.
10 - Check plugshare there are many,many fast chargers already and the utilization is quite low (6% afik).
If we start to look at your points....
1. I live in town, no on street charging, I can usually park right outside my property one evening every fortnight.
Well that is me out then, no point going through the rest.
We need to see kerbside parking in residential areas for this to truly work.
1. I live in town, no on street charging, I can usually park right outside my property one evening every fortnight.
Well that is me out then, no point going through the rest.
We need to see kerbside parking in residential areas for this to truly work.
The Macan as EV is a very desirable thing to me for the daily driver category.
P.s; My previous employer (a power company, go figure) only allowed hybrids and EV’s at lease renewal. After driving a 330e for a year I can only conlude that electric is not the future, but the next state of now. Deal with it. I’d be surprised on the other hand if the dino juice vehicle dies out during our lifetime.
P.p.s; In the case of full EV annoyance is car holidays for most and a sheer no-go for the salesy hypermiler.
P.s; My previous employer (a power company, go figure) only allowed hybrids and EV’s at lease renewal. After driving a 330e for a year I can only conlude that electric is not the future, but the next state of now. Deal with it. I’d be surprised on the other hand if the dino juice vehicle dies out during our lifetime.
P.p.s; In the case of full EV annoyance is car holidays for most and a sheer no-go for the salesy hypermiler.
Power generation is a key issue, the infrastructure to charge thousands or hundreds of thousands of EV cars just isn’t there. How many charge points do say Sainsbury’s have? Currently maybe one or two out of maybe a thousand or more spaces? Until say 25% of the spaces are EV charging, it just won’t happen.
And power stations....hmm you’re talking 25 years ahead at best if the decision is made yesterday. Which it wasn’t!
Some people on here are quite deluded. London I would guess is the biggest market in the UK for Macans - and on drive parking just doesn’t exist for the vast majority of people.
And power stations....hmm you’re talking 25 years ahead at best if the decision is made yesterday. Which it wasn’t!
Some people on here are quite deluded. London I would guess is the biggest market in the UK for Macans - and on drive parking just doesn’t exist for the vast majority of people.
Edited by GTEYE on Thursday 28th February 05:30
GTEYE said:
Power generation is a key issue, the infrastructure to charge thousands or hundreds of thousands of EV cars just isn’t there. How many charge points do say Sainsbury’s have? Currently maybe one or two out of maybe a thousand or more spaces? Until say 25% of the spaces are EV charging, it just won’t happen.
And power stations....hmm you’re talking 25 years ahead at best if the decision is made yesterday. Which it wasn’t!
Some people on here are quite deluded. London I would guess is the biggest market in the UK for Macans - and on drive parking just doesn’t exist for the vast majority of people.
Exactly. And power stations....hmm you’re talking 25 years ahead at best if the decision is made yesterday. Which it wasn’t!
Some people on here are quite deluded. London I would guess is the biggest market in the UK for Macans - and on drive parking just doesn’t exist for the vast majority of people.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 28th February 05:30
yonex said:
GTEYE said:
Power generation is a key issue, the infrastructure to charge thousands or hundreds of thousands of EV cars just isn’t there. How many charge points do say Sainsbury’s have? Currently maybe one or two out of maybe a thousand or more spaces? Until say 25% of the spaces are EV charging, it just won’t happen.
And power stations....hmm you’re talking 25 years ahead at best if the decision is made yesterday. Which it wasn’t!
Some people on here are quite deluded. London I would guess is the biggest market in the UK for Macans - and on drive parking just doesn’t exist for the vast majority of people.
Exactly. And power stations....hmm you’re talking 25 years ahead at best if the decision is made yesterday. Which it wasn’t!
Some people on here are quite deluded. London I would guess is the biggest market in the UK for Macans - and on drive parking just doesn’t exist for the vast majority of people.
Edited by GTEYE on Thursday 28th February 05:30
Put it this way. Mobile phones. 20 years ago, when we were all walking around with WAP in our pocket, the suggestion that we’d all pretty much abandon our desktop computers for anything other than office work could have been met with the same scepticism as Ev’s are in here:
“I need to send 100 emails a day. Typing that out on a phone keyboard is impossible”
“There isn’t the data network available. How do we expect the cell masts to cope when everyone has to send an email at the same time, let along download an entire mp3”
“Phones are for talking on. You won’t catch me using WAP even now. It’s a waste of time. Only the other day I had to download a 10Mb attachment. I just clicked on the email, hit download and 5mins later I was able to review this critical excel sheet for a meeting I had in my diary 30mins later. What happens when I try and do that on my phone? I don’t even have excel on it! It would have taken 30mins just to download half of it over WAP, cost my £18 and then not opened. I’d have lost my job. I’m out”
The fact is, in 20 years time, you’ll probably wake up one morning, get a call from work and have to drive to Edinburgh from London. Without thinking you’ll get in your car (which will be fully charged), drive all the way there (probably doing the whole motorway stint whilst catching up with emails as the car will be driving itself on the motorway) and then all the way back, and have 20% charge left. It will have cost you £15. You’ll then go a drive in your Caterham and think ‘god I can’t believe you used to have to concentrate on motorways and stop to fill up with petrol’
As someone has already mentioned Porsche wouldn't care much what some people on a car forum thinks about the decision to make their best selling product an EV.
The proof in the end will be if customers buy the new EV Macan. I've never had any interest in any Porsche before, not even the 911. But this move by Porsche really excites me about the brand.
I'll be popping into our nearest Porsche dealer (which happens to be about 2 mile away) when am next free, and if am allowed I'll be happy to put a holding deposit down on when ever the EV Macan appears.
The car industry is changing fast, Porsche are now leading from the front, it's a great move by Porsche.
The proof in the end will be if customers buy the new EV Macan. I've never had any interest in any Porsche before, not even the 911. But this move by Porsche really excites me about the brand.
I'll be popping into our nearest Porsche dealer (which happens to be about 2 mile away) when am next free, and if am allowed I'll be happy to put a holding deposit down on when ever the EV Macan appears.
The car industry is changing fast, Porsche are now leading from the front, it's a great move by Porsche.
RacerMike said:
If you’d care to read just a few posts up, you’s see this has been discussed many times already and many times in many other Ev threads. It’s a totally solvable issues.
Put it this way. Mobile phones. 20 years ago, when we were all walking around with WAP in our pocket, the suggestion that we’d all pretty much abandon our desktop computers for anything other than office work could have been met with the same scepticism as Ev’s are in here:
“I need to send 100 emails a day. Typing that out on a phone keyboard is impossible”
“There isn’t the data network available. How do we expect the cell masts to cope when everyone has to send an email at the same time, let along download an entire mp3”
“Phones are for talking on. You won’t catch me using WAP even now. It’s a waste of time. Only the other day I had to download a 10Mb attachment. I just clicked on the email, hit download and 5mins later I was able to review this critical excel sheet for a meeting I had in my diary 30mins later. What happens when I try and do that on my phone? I don’t even have excel on it! It would have taken 30mins just to download half of it over WAP, cost my £18 and then not opened. I’d have lost my job. I’m out”
The fact is, in 20 years time, you’ll probably wake up one morning, get a call from work and have to drive to Edinburgh from London. Without thinking you’ll get in your car (which will be fully charged), drive all the way there (probably doing the whole motorway stint whilst catching up with emails as the car will be driving itself on the motorway) and then all the way back, and have 20% charge left. It will have cost you £15. You’ll then go a drive in your Caterham and think ‘god I can’t believe you used to have to concentrate on motorways and stop to fill up with petrol’
And who is going to fund this massive new network of chargers, Porsche? The EV infrastructure problem is far more complex than moving data. But yes, in 20 years we might be somewhere close and more will have EV. Right now pure EV, not hybrid is a niche, no matter what anyone says.Put it this way. Mobile phones. 20 years ago, when we were all walking around with WAP in our pocket, the suggestion that we’d all pretty much abandon our desktop computers for anything other than office work could have been met with the same scepticism as Ev’s are in here:
“I need to send 100 emails a day. Typing that out on a phone keyboard is impossible”
“There isn’t the data network available. How do we expect the cell masts to cope when everyone has to send an email at the same time, let along download an entire mp3”
“Phones are for talking on. You won’t catch me using WAP even now. It’s a waste of time. Only the other day I had to download a 10Mb attachment. I just clicked on the email, hit download and 5mins later I was able to review this critical excel sheet for a meeting I had in my diary 30mins later. What happens when I try and do that on my phone? I don’t even have excel on it! It would have taken 30mins just to download half of it over WAP, cost my £18 and then not opened. I’d have lost my job. I’m out”
The fact is, in 20 years time, you’ll probably wake up one morning, get a call from work and have to drive to Edinburgh from London. Without thinking you’ll get in your car (which will be fully charged), drive all the way there (probably doing the whole motorway stint whilst catching up with emails as the car will be driving itself on the motorway) and then all the way back, and have 20% charge left. It will have cost you £15. You’ll then go a drive in your Caterham and think ‘god I can’t believe you used to have to concentrate on motorways and stop to fill up with petrol’
RobDickinson said:
ICBF to read all the thread, already full of the typical anti ev bullst.
here are some facts...
1 - Every home already has electricity
2 - Most cars spend 95% of their time parked and unused
3 - the UK national grid dont see EVs as a problem - actually grid connected cars can lower the overall cost of electricity
4 - even if you cant charge at home most new EVs will have range enough for a once a week charge typically you can do at the supermarket etc
5 - at no point ever will ICE cars be cheaper to run than Evs tax and efficiency wont allow for that
6 - hydrogen isnt an energy source its a storage system that is far far less efficient than directly charging a BEV
7 - waking up every day with a full car means you usually wont have to use a public charger
8 - EVs are quite, smooth, quick and dont choke you on fumes. And you can pre heat them (usually from your phone)
9 - charging standards are getting simpler, CCS/type2 is pretty much it outside of Japan now.
10 - Check plugshare there are many,many fast chargers already and the utilization is quite low (6% afik).
Some pretty solid "facts" there alrightt. here are some facts...
1 - Every home already has electricity
2 - Most cars spend 95% of their time parked and unused
3 - the UK national grid dont see EVs as a problem - actually grid connected cars can lower the overall cost of electricity
4 - even if you cant charge at home most new EVs will have range enough for a once a week charge typically you can do at the supermarket etc
5 - at no point ever will ICE cars be cheaper to run than Evs tax and efficiency wont allow for that
6 - hydrogen isnt an energy source its a storage system that is far far less efficient than directly charging a BEV
7 - waking up every day with a full car means you usually wont have to use a public charger
8 - EVs are quite, smooth, quick and dont choke you on fumes. And you can pre heat them (usually from your phone)
9 - charging standards are getting simpler, CCS/type2 is pretty much it outside of Japan now.
10 - Check plugshare there are many,many fast chargers already and the utilization is quite low (6% afik).
DoubleTime said:
RobDickinson said:
ICBF to read all the thread, already full of the typical anti ev bullst.
here are some facts...
1 - Every home already has electricity
2 - Most cars spend 95% of their time parked and unused
3 - the UK national grid dont see EVs as a problem - actually grid connected cars can lower the overall cost of electricity
4 - even if you cant charge at home most new EVs will have range enough for a once a week charge typically you can do at the supermarket etc
5 - at no point ever will ICE cars be cheaper to run than Evs tax and efficiency wont allow for that
6 - hydrogen isnt an energy source its a storage system that is far far less efficient than directly charging a BEV
7 - waking up every day with a full car means you usually wont have to use a public charger
8 - EVs are quite, smooth, quick and dont choke you on fumes. And you can pre heat them (usually from your phone)
9 - charging standards are getting simpler, CCS/type2 is pretty much it outside of Japan now.
10 - Check plugshare there are many,many fast chargers already and the utilization is quite low (6% afik).
Some pretty solid "facts" there alrightt. here are some facts...
1 - Every home already has electricity
2 - Most cars spend 95% of their time parked and unused
3 - the UK national grid dont see EVs as a problem - actually grid connected cars can lower the overall cost of electricity
4 - even if you cant charge at home most new EVs will have range enough for a once a week charge typically you can do at the supermarket etc
5 - at no point ever will ICE cars be cheaper to run than Evs tax and efficiency wont allow for that
6 - hydrogen isnt an energy source its a storage system that is far far less efficient than directly charging a BEV
7 - waking up every day with a full car means you usually wont have to use a public charger
8 - EVs are quite, smooth, quick and dont choke you on fumes. And you can pre heat them (usually from your phone)
9 - charging standards are getting simpler, CCS/type2 is pretty much it outside of Japan now.
10 - Check plugshare there are many,many fast chargers already and the utilization is quite low (6% afik).
yonex said:
And who is going to fund this massive new network of chargers, Porsche? The EV infrastructure problem is far more complex than moving data. But yes, in 20 years we might be somewhere close and more will have EV. Right now pure EV, not hybrid is a niche, no matter what anyone says.
Look at the other post above. Its all very straightforward. gizlaroc said:
If we start to look at your points....
1. I live in town, no on street charging, I can usually park right outside my property one evening every fortnight.
Well that is me out then, no point going through the rest.
We need to see kerbside parking in residential areas for this to truly work.
Agreed - I'd love an EV but until on-street charging becomes ubiquitous they're just not going to work for me. In fact with my current set-up I'll probably be one of the last people in the country to switch, as 1. I've no off-street parking (not because I'm poor, more because it wasn't a priority at the turn of the 18th century when my house was built), 2. My car is virtually never parked in an actual car park - half an hour a week max, and 3. I live in darkest North Yorkshire, so tales of a few streets in that there London being kitted out with chargers, or of a couple of super-fast chargers having popped up in the Thames Valley, are all very interesting but of no practical use whatsoever. Hopefully this will change but I can't see it happening particularly quickly.1. I live in town, no on street charging, I can usually park right outside my property one evening every fortnight.
Well that is me out then, no point going through the rest.
We need to see kerbside parking in residential areas for this to truly work.
I think the issue is that some people are approaching this as if they are going to be forced to buy an EV and that it’s some kind of 1984 political scenario and as a result they rail against anything to do with EVs.
The reality is that any conversion to EVs is going to take far longer than the extremists on one side believe while at the same time the extremists on the other side who rant about power stations and not fitting on a petrol forcourt are equally wrong.
EVs only currently work in geo political environments where there is both high consumer wealth combined with sufficient government tax incentives. The average new car bought in the UK is under £20k. The most popular car, the Fiesta is £12k. For EVs to genuinely become the defacto choice for the masses these are the sorts of numbers we need to be looking at.
And it’s only at that point will it be commercially viable to create an expansive on street charging network. At the same time, even when we do reach that critical point of price inversion there will still be used where an EV is not appropriate. It is not a product that answers all questions.
ICE power will remain for a very, very long time. It may cease to be the primary power train but it will be essential for the purpose of infilling where pure EV fails.
It’s more logical to think of the EV event that is slowly unfurling as being akin to an innoculation program. You have no need to inoculate 100% of the population, it isn’t necessary and not is it cost efficient. You only need to inoculate enough of the population to stop transmission. And that is where we will be with EVs.
In 10/20 years it is fair to assume that the bulk of new car purchases in the UK will be EV if manufacturers can churn them out for cheaper than the comparable ICE. It won’t be driven by politics or eco bks but by the thing that drives all human consumption, cost. But petrol stations will still exist, ICE powered cars will still exist and still be needed.
The solution for a person in need of a new car but who cannot get an EV to work for them is to not buy an EV. That is that major problem solved once and for all on PH.
The solution for anyone who wants an EV but understands that it wouldn’t yet be cheaper than an ICE so don’t want one just yet is to not buy one just yet. That’s a second big PH problem solved.
The solution to the problem of loony extremists who rant that Musk is the messiah and we will all be in autonomous EVs by Friday or those that rant that their anomalous use of a motor car is the norm for the majority is to just ignore them like we naturally ignore the ranty tramp in the park who has lost his mind and can no longer think straight.
The reality is that any conversion to EVs is going to take far longer than the extremists on one side believe while at the same time the extremists on the other side who rant about power stations and not fitting on a petrol forcourt are equally wrong.
EVs only currently work in geo political environments where there is both high consumer wealth combined with sufficient government tax incentives. The average new car bought in the UK is under £20k. The most popular car, the Fiesta is £12k. For EVs to genuinely become the defacto choice for the masses these are the sorts of numbers we need to be looking at.
And it’s only at that point will it be commercially viable to create an expansive on street charging network. At the same time, even when we do reach that critical point of price inversion there will still be used where an EV is not appropriate. It is not a product that answers all questions.
ICE power will remain for a very, very long time. It may cease to be the primary power train but it will be essential for the purpose of infilling where pure EV fails.
It’s more logical to think of the EV event that is slowly unfurling as being akin to an innoculation program. You have no need to inoculate 100% of the population, it isn’t necessary and not is it cost efficient. You only need to inoculate enough of the population to stop transmission. And that is where we will be with EVs.
In 10/20 years it is fair to assume that the bulk of new car purchases in the UK will be EV if manufacturers can churn them out for cheaper than the comparable ICE. It won’t be driven by politics or eco b
ks but by the thing that drives all human consumption, cost. But petrol stations will still exist, ICE powered cars will still exist and still be needed. The solution for a person in need of a new car but who cannot get an EV to work for them is to not buy an EV. That is that major problem solved once and for all on PH.
The solution for anyone who wants an EV but understands that it wouldn’t yet be cheaper than an ICE so don’t want one just yet is to not buy one just yet. That’s a second big PH problem solved.
The solution to the problem of loony extremists who rant that Musk is the messiah and we will all be in autonomous EVs by Friday or those that rant that their anomalous use of a motor car is the norm for the majority is to just ignore them like we naturally ignore the ranty tramp in the park who has lost his mind and can no longer think straight.
GTEYE said:
So basically in the UK you charge it at home or you’re stuffed.
There simply is not enough public infrastructure and I suspect there’s no cash to pay for one being created.
The avg driver in the uk covers 8000 miles a year (2015, probably less now) which is approx 150 miles a week so any car with a 200+ mile range is only going to need to be charged once a week. I do 10k a year and an e-nero would easily do my weekly commute on one charge.There simply is not enough public infrastructure and I suspect there’s no cash to pay for one being created.
Its still very early days for EV cars and the charging infrastructure, things are only going to improve substantially over the next 5 - 10 years.
I took the plunge and swapped a Range Rover Sport to a Tesla Model X 7 months ago. I also run a V8 F Type in addition to that.
Anyone who says EV’s are boring / not fun has not spent any serious time behind the wheel of a decent one.
The Tesla is a revelation - blindingly fast, extremely low center of gravity, very little body roll. It’s an absolute hoot to drive - way more sporty than the RR Sport ever was. Having so much torque instantly available, no gears to have to go down through makes making progress so effortless and easy. You can get the jump on pretty much anything ICE based either from a standing start or when already on the move - makes lane changes / merging etc swift and simple.
As for charging - I plug in overnight and don’t think twice about it. I have more than enough range for 99% of all driving I do. The only time I have ever visited a Supercharger is on a long road trip - which is not a normal driving routine / pattern.
I love my V8 F Type for all the noise etc but it’s not used as daily transport - the X is far far better at that and by god does ICE feel old fashioned and antiquated to me now.
Anyone who says EV’s are boring / not fun has not spent any serious time behind the wheel of a decent one.
The Tesla is a revelation - blindingly fast, extremely low center of gravity, very little body roll. It’s an absolute hoot to drive - way more sporty than the RR Sport ever was. Having so much torque instantly available, no gears to have to go down through makes making progress so effortless and easy. You can get the jump on pretty much anything ICE based either from a standing start or when already on the move - makes lane changes / merging etc swift and simple.
As for charging - I plug in overnight and don’t think twice about it. I have more than enough range for 99% of all driving I do. The only time I have ever visited a Supercharger is on a long road trip - which is not a normal driving routine / pattern.
I love my V8 F Type for all the noise etc but it’s not used as daily transport - the X is far far better at that and by god does ICE feel old fashioned and antiquated to me now.
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