RE: Volkswagen T-Roc R vs Ford Focus ST Estate
Discussion
G.Fraser said:
Matt Bird said:
Yours looks great in the colour, congrats. And Ford must have changed availability, as it certainly had a Track mode. Spec pics attached! To be honest with, I think the car would be better for not having it anyway...
This is my first brand new car and normally I've picked used cars from the end of their production run. Having one of the early models I need to 'get over' the notion that new features and options will be released. I'm not looking froward to the facelift, lol!
The problem is that the press cars seem to have options fitted that are not available on production cars (or at least not those destined for the UK).
The car featured (ST67 FUN) has also featured in a detailed review on YouTube. Launch Control is shown and so this car clearly has the Performance Pack fitted. But you cannot specify that option on the Estate according the UK price list and Configurator.
The amusing thing is that on the spec sheet shown above (it’s also shown on the YouTube video) it clearly states “(5 Door only)” against the Performance Pack option that is fitted!!
That’s not the only feature that I’ve seen on press cars that cannot be specified. This car has Park Assist and Door protectors fitted (in fact all the press cars seem to have them!). These are available on every other Focus model as part of the “Convenience Pack”. However it is impossible to specify this pack on a Focus ST and Park Assist and Door protectors are not fitted as standard (despite some reviews stating they are e.g. Autocar (probably because they’ve only seen press cars!))
So it’s quite possible this car has CCD i.e. Adaptive Dampers fitted too!! Despite what the Price list says!
mstrbkr said:
ajap1979 said:
If you're comfortable cutting your bumper – https://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/22852-estate-to...
That's interesting, thanks. I would want to see it become "official" on the mk8 R though.a) the exhaust physically wipes out the space to fit a tow bar
b) the car can not cool adequately when towing as the cooling capacity has been taken up with the larger engine/intercooler
I do think it must cost some sales but getting the highest performance variants to be able to tow can be a requirement too far !!
I used to want a hot hatch to tow a light trailer (~400kg of trailer, go kart and tools/tyres/spares) - found the need for a tow var really restricting. However did lead me to buy a Mk5 Golf GTi which was hardly a hardship !! (one of the best cars I've owned)
Since I stopped owning a kart (I rent now) it has opened up a number of cars previously denied me (usually the most powerful variant in the range such as Fiesta ST and Golf R)
GhiaInjection said:
The only change to the options list since launch is that now you can specify a CD Player!
The problem is that the press cars seem to have options fitted that are not available on production cars (or at least not those destined for the UK).
The car featured (ST67 FUN) has also featured in a detailed review on YouTube. Launch Control is shown and so this car clearly has the Performance Pack fitted. But you cannot specify that option on the Estate according the UK price list and Configurator.
The amusing thing is that on the spec sheet shown above (it’s also shown on the YouTube video) it clearly states “(5 Door only)” against the Performance Pack option that is fitted!!
That’s not the only feature that I’ve seen on press cars that cannot be specified. This car has Park Assist and Door protectors fitted (in fact all the press cars seem to have them!). These are available on every other Focus model as part of the “Convenience Pack”. However it is impossible to specify this pack on a Focus ST and Park Assist and Door protectors are not fitted as standard (despite some reviews stating they are e.g. Autocar (probably because they’ve only seen press cars!))
So it’s quite possible this car has CCD i.e. Adaptive Dampers fitted too!! Despite what the Price list says!
Interesting, thanks! The problem is that the press cars seem to have options fitted that are not available on production cars (or at least not those destined for the UK).
The car featured (ST67 FUN) has also featured in a detailed review on YouTube. Launch Control is shown and so this car clearly has the Performance Pack fitted. But you cannot specify that option on the Estate according the UK price list and Configurator.
The amusing thing is that on the spec sheet shown above (it’s also shown on the YouTube video) it clearly states “(5 Door only)” against the Performance Pack option that is fitted!!
That’s not the only feature that I’ve seen on press cars that cannot be specified. This car has Park Assist and Door protectors fitted (in fact all the press cars seem to have them!). These are available on every other Focus model as part of the “Convenience Pack”. However it is impossible to specify this pack on a Focus ST and Park Assist and Door protectors are not fitted as standard (despite some reviews stating they are e.g. Autocar (probably because they’ve only seen press cars!))
So it’s quite possible this car has CCD i.e. Adaptive Dampers fitted too!! Despite what the Price list says!
I’d have loved the door protectors...
It's an interesting debate, and I think that SUVs are indeed compromised in many ways. I bought a BMW X3 as I need to regularly transport dogs and bikes etc. but I only went down the SUV route to keep the wife happy, as she likes the higher driving position offered. Whilst it's fine to drive (it's an M-Sport model, and manual) if I were to jump back into say a 3-series estate, or golf estate, or the Focus ST estate it would be a much better drive, and faster!
However, SUVs as a format march relentlessly on .... anyway, I can always take my air-cooled 911 for a spin if I need some automotive "therapy"
However, SUVs as a format march relentlessly on .... anyway, I can always take my air-cooled 911 for a spin if I need some automotive "therapy"
ajap1979 said:
DoubleD said:
ajap1979 said:
DoubleD said:
My fridge is black, but its still a white goods.
Interesting that PH says small estates are 'fuddy duddy' but most crossover and SUV drivers i know - plus a few posted above on this thread - mention the high driving position and easy ingress and egress. Isn't that in itself fuddy duddy? No 25 year old is buying a car for ease of entry into it..
Anyway crossovers have a mumsy school run image too, most I see are driven by women.
I can see the trend of the body style. "Linda from work has just bought a Kuga, so we need a crossover too, a VW" these powerful ones just seem like they've had a little input from the man. "I'm only getting one if we have the R"
It's a bit like the modern day Zafira VXR.
Anyway crossovers have a mumsy school run image too, most I see are driven by women.
I can see the trend of the body style. "Linda from work has just bought a Kuga, so we need a crossover too, a VW" these powerful ones just seem like they've had a little input from the man. "I'm only getting one if we have the R"
It's a bit like the modern day Zafira VXR.
Dwh8611 said:
Don't get me wrong, I love the RS6, but I don't think that anyone would choose one without a practical need for an estate car. If I showed it to my wife she'd ask why I was showing her a photo of an estate car! It's a beast, and for me the ultimate family wagon, but it's an Audi so can't be exotic, and it's masculine rather than sexy.Oppo said:
Anyway crossovers have a mumsy school run image too, most I see are driven by women.
And if image is important for you, that's totally fair enough. But that's something that's sometimes said about the reasons for choosing a SUV/Crossover, which is also true. I think it's also reasonable to consider that some will choose a SUV/Crossover for functionnal reasons and even despite the image.
PhilboSE said:
It's always rather amusing to see the assertion that these hatch estates are somehow definitively more of a "driver's car" than the crossover/SUV.
If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
I think you're arguing a point no-one has made: I don't think anyone buying an ST estate thinks it will be on a par with (the chap driving???) a Mono.If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
People aren't making the choice between a Mono and a Focus Estate.
People are, however, making the choice between a Focus Estate and an SUV.
As has been demonstrated by far better drivers than me, the Estate is the better driver's car than the SUV.
And - at the same price - has more interior space, better fuel economy and out performs the SUV in any number of other areas.
Yes, the SUV owner may have a Mono in the garage at home. As may the Estate owner.
I think - and I believe many others think the same - that there are few to no areas that the SUV is a better proposition than a similarly priced estate.
That doesn't mean I look down on their owners, they may have found that one area the SUV is better for them. Good for them.
Hackney said:
PhilboSE said:
It's always rather amusing to see the assertion that these hatch estates are somehow definitively more of a "driver's car" than the crossover/SUV.
If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
I think you're arguing a point no-one has made: I don't think anyone buying an ST estate thinks it will be on a par with (the chap driving???) a Mono.If scoring cars marks out of 10 for driving enjoyment then the estate might score 4/10 and the SUV 3/10. Yes the hatch estate might be better than the SUV but fun? Not really. All cars are compromises of one sort or another, people just choose a set of compromises which suit their needs/desires.
Of course, driving a car that scores 8, 9 or 10 out of 10 on the driving enjoyment scale will require a major compromise in many other areas, such as practicality or economy. Just don't kid yourself that by buying an estate rather than an SUV puts you on a par with the chap driving a BAC Mono. And the person with the SUV that you sneer at might just have something else at home as well.
People aren't making the choice between a Mono and a Focus Estate.
People are, however, making the choice between a Focus Estate and an SUV.
As has been demonstrated by far better drivers than me, the Estate is the better driver's car than the SUV.
And - at the same price - has more interior space, better fuel economy and out performs the SUV in any number of other areas.
Yes, the SUV owner may have a Mono in the garage at home. As may the Estate owner.
I think - and I believe many others think the same - that there are few to no areas that the SUV is a better proposition than a similarly priced estate.
That doesn't mean I look down on their owners, they may have found that one area the SUV is better for them. Good for them.
I was making the point that if you chose a massively compromised car purely for the driving experience (say a Mono, extreme Caterham or road-going Radical) then you can justifiably claim to have made your car choice on grounds of driving pleasure. If you buy an estate car (or a crossover, or an SUV, or pretty much anything else) then you have made your choice on grounds of comfort, practicality, economy and a whole bunch of other, perfectly valid, reasons - but driving enjoyment would have been pretty far down the list.
And I really don't get the "I look down on other people based on what car they drive" attitude. A lot of F1 drivers have SUVs but no doubt these posters would sit next to them in traffic, sneering at their Range Rovers and their apparent lack of credentials as a driver.
I didn't actually think the article told us that much anyway; that an estate car that is a foot longer than a hatchback-styled small crossover has more space internally and is better to drive? Not a great surprise, and just fuels the "estates beat SUVs in every metric" groupthink in some quarters. If the comparison was drawn between two similar cars built on the same platform then some of the outcomes would have been different, but I suspect that wouldn't have fitted the desired narrative of the article.
Hackney said:
I think - and I believe many others think the same - that there are few to no areas that the SUV is a better proposition than a similarly priced estate.
I disagree, but I certainly accept that many think as you do, and articles such as this one don't help. As a counterexample, how about comparing the RS6 I chopped in to buy an SQ7. I could say that the SQ7 is only 5 inches longer than the RS6 yet it seats 7 rather than 4, has 25% more boot capacity, can tow 50% more weight and is 80% better on fuel consumption yet has nearly identical performance. Oh and the SQ7 is 20% cheaper to buy. It all just depends on the spin & impression you want to give. It certainly doesn't mean I'm less of a "driver" since I made that change, it just means I shifted my priorities on the compromises I wanted from the car, based on the fact my family situation changed. And if I want to do some "driving" rather than just "transport", then I'll choose something better than either.Hackney said:
I think - and I believe many others think the same - that there are few to no areas that the SUV is a better proposition than a similarly priced estate.
I really like estates but for me there are few to no areas where they are better than the SUV at a similar price. It probably means we all have different needs and priorities.
Oppo said:
I dont think it's ever been the raised height, it more the tonka toy, lifestyle, surfboard-on-roof looks.
Its not necessarily about the ride height, its the more upright seating position, and yes the 90mm extra height allows for a more comfortable, ergonomic and ultimately healthier driving position.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff