RE: BMW M340i Touring vs. Audi S4 Avant
Discussion
Martin 480 Turbo said:
Was it really 9 years ago, that I had the pleasure of ordering that Audi A6 (C5) LeMans Avant? Wonderful, wonderful machine.
Beautiful and ballanced.
(not my actual car)
But it hid a dirty, dirty secret...
And now we got these. The German car industry seems to be doomed.
Mine's not the LeMans edition (though still 3.0TDi Avant Quattro), but it's been with me 10 years and 208,000 miles now! The toy's come and go on a regular basis, but the old Audi ain't going anywhere - effortless and 100% faultless (ok, window regulator, parking sensor and air-flow meter in 208k miles - total cost under £200 over the course of that 10 years, as I was able to fit the parts myself!). Dogs, kayaks, bikes and work equipment in the back - tow bar for the race bikes to the track - I can honestly still see myself driving it for another 10 years and 200k miles: it's like an old mate by this stage!Beautiful and ballanced.
(not my actual car)
But it hid a dirty, dirty secret...
And now we got these. The German car industry seems to be doomed.
DonkeyApple said:
nicfaz said:
That last part about the car ignoring throttle inputs is why I'm over the moon with my Tesla M3P. Forget climate change, forget pedo tweets, forget range anxiety. The most important part about buying a Tesla is that when you press the right pedal, it goes. Instantly, like a 997 GT3 RS that was already in second gear before you pressed the pedal. It's strangely liberating to have a car that just does what you ask, the moment you ask. I won't be going back.
It’s a massive advantage in that regard. Auto boxes have been on a trend of adding more and more gears to try and achieve near constant velocity plus they have to give them a map that compromises across a wide range of consumer expectations. I can’t get in with the Tesla products yet. I found the S understated awfully and driving it reminded me of 90s Audis and at the end of the day it’s too big. The 3 seems to drive better but it’s still far from agile so while I think it’s a much better car for say commuting it then doesn’t reward when you get a chance to actually drive. I also just don’t like having to change controls via a cumbersome touchscreen and clearly prefer BMWs much more 20th century retention of switches and knobs etc so in reality Tesla is going to be a product I’m likely to never really want. Plus, £50-£100k and the interior is very turn of the century in overall quality. It isn’t a brand that appeals to the things I value but I can clearly see the overall appeal.
I did look briefly at the iPace as an EV would suit me perfectly in terms of usage but I ultimately shied away for the same reason the XFR estate wasn’t on my final short list and that was that I simply don’t want the hassle of dealer trips on what’s meant to be a family hack/runabout.
Arsecati said:
Mine's not the LeMans edition (though still 3.0TDi Avant Quattro), but it's been with me 10 years and 208,000 miles now! The toy's come and go on a regular basis, but the old Audi ain't going anywhere - effortless and 100% faultless (ok, window regulator, parking sensor and air-flow meter in 208k miles - total cost under £200 over the course of that 10 years, as I was able to fit the parts myself!). Dogs, kayaks, bikes and work equipment in the back - tow bar for the race bikes to the track - I can honestly still see myself driving it for another 10 years and 200k miles: it's like an old mate by this stage!
Well mine got "nicked" in front of the house at 05.20 AM in 2016 and was never seen, again. Key(less) it went. Sadly all the Police in Poland retrieved was the engine about 4 Months later. Still hate thinking of that day. It was at 200k km and absolutely mint. (That's why they took it.)Was replaced by a 535 ix Touring, which was no replacement, at all.
Wish you happy motoring for many years to come.
DonkeyApple said:
Court_S said:
I really, really like them. I think they manage to bridge the gap between modern and analogue well in my opinion.
The physical buttons and idrive controller outweigh my dislike of the new digital dials. I could live with those dials and have the buttons etc instead of touchscreens.
It’s one of the things I like about the layout on the BMW which is that you can change any relevant setting without needing to look at the controls. I just don’t see touchscreens in cars as a technological step forward but rather an intellectual step back to cater for modern consumer expectations. The physical buttons and idrive controller outweigh my dislike of the new digital dials. I could live with those dials and have the buttons etc instead of touchscreens.
I can’t see BMW holding out against that fashion unless we reach peak touchscreen w
kery in the next year or so and the fashion for installing slower, less efficient, less practical solutions than what existed already reverses back towards common sense. But this would require a complete rebranding of what buttons and dials are. They would have to be relaunched as haptic control devices or anything to avoid people thinking they were just buttons or dials which are things for horrible smelly old people who have destroyed the planet with their rampant non consumerism. 
In short, I like the intuitive controls for the cars but fully recognise that I’m usually, arguably never, at the vanguard of consumer trends.
BMW digital dash.... few months ago hired a 5 series for a week.... the dials were the same and are just NOT natural to use.... HUD are the way forward, not just digital dash with rev & MPH moving in different directions around the dial...... remember when Aston Martin did this with their analog dials?? Even Aston dropped this idea - BMW, produce something that actually reads well please and everyone - just put in HUD!!
Spudmaster said:
Well I am going to look at it positively...
Looking for a rapid diesel estate to do 25k miles pa - therefore diesel really the only viable option...
Have narrowed it down to 330D Xdrive Msport + or the new S4.
Having read this article- pretty much made my mind up on S4. Unless BMW put the X3 M40D engine into the touring...?
As somebody else pointed out - no indication of adjustable dampers and diff on Audi configurator?
They have made a 340d - it is launched this week along with the X5 and X6 40d. Should be available from April with 340PS Looking for a rapid diesel estate to do 25k miles pa - therefore diesel really the only viable option...
Have narrowed it down to 330D Xdrive Msport + or the new S4.
Having read this article- pretty much made my mind up on S4. Unless BMW put the X3 M40D engine into the touring...?
As somebody else pointed out - no indication of adjustable dampers and diff on Audi configurator?
I do wonder if BMW in general have the problem that almost everything that they traditionally stood for in terms of the cabin controls is now everything that society dislikes. As in, analog is now bad and digital is not just awesome but the only possible answer to many consumers. And as BMW feel forced to make that transition they lose much of what was once the core appeal to consumers in days gone.
BMW is like a traditional toilet roll holder. Practical, obvious and does the job perfectly but everyone today wants a toilet roll holder that has a touch screen, is WiFi enabled for over air software updates, costs much more, doesn’t work as well or as sensibly but is deemed cool and desirable until it becomes obsolete, stops working and must be randomly replaced with another one having left you with a stty arse for no good reason.
BMW is like a traditional toilet roll holder. Practical, obvious and does the job perfectly but everyone today wants a toilet roll holder that has a touch screen, is WiFi enabled for over air software updates, costs much more, doesn’t work as well or as sensibly but is deemed cool and desirable until it becomes obsolete, stops working and must be randomly replaced with another one having left you with a s
tty arse for no good reason. Gull Slayer said:
I whole heartedly agree with g3org3y, I have recently bought a new 540i Tourer with the digital dash board. I find it very ordinary to sit in front of and not as easy to read as the old round dials. It's somehow not as 'BMW'.
The dials the earlier G30s came with I prefer over what they have now. DonkeyApple said:
I do wonder if BMW in general have the problem that almost everything that they traditionally stood for in terms of the cabin controls is now everything that society dislikes. As in, analog is now bad and digital is not just awesome but the only possible answer to many consumers. And as BMW feel forced to make that transition they lose much of what was once the core appeal to consumers in days gone.
BMW is like a traditional toilet roll holder. Practical, obvious and does the job perfectly but everyone today wants a toilet roll holder that has a touch screen, is WiFi enabled for over air software updates, costs much more, doesn’t work as well or as sensibly but is deemed cool and desirable until it becomes obsolete, stops working and must be randomly replaced with another one having left you with a stty arse for no good reason.
That’s not a bad analogy; it seems most are won over by the show room appeal of the big screens etc. BMW is like a traditional toilet roll holder. Practical, obvious and does the job perfectly but everyone today wants a toilet roll holder that has a touch screen, is WiFi enabled for over air software updates, costs much more, doesn’t work as well or as sensibly but is deemed cool and desirable until it becomes obsolete, stops working and must be randomly replaced with another one having left you with a s
tty arse for no good reason. The press race about it as well; the A Class interior gets a lot of love but I think it’s rubbish. You much info on the screens, too many cheap / crap feeling bits, the stupid Mercedes ‘assistant’ that wakes up when you say Mercedes. The thing that bugs me the most is that the rocket switches for the temperature are nowhere near the part of the screen that tells guy you the cabin temperature is...who thought that was a good idea?
But these seems very much the way that cat design is going. I guess it helps them build in some obsolescence too which already appears to be happening.
Court_S said:
That’s not a bad analogy; it seems most are won over by the show room appeal of the big screens etc.
The press race about it as well; the A Class interior gets a lot of love but I think it’s rubbish. You much info on the screens, too many cheap / crap feeling bits, the stupid Mercedes ‘assistant’ that wakes up when you say Mercedes. The thing that bugs me the most is that the rocket switches for the temperature are nowhere near the part of the screen that tells guy you the cabin temperature is...who thought that was a good idea?
But these seems very much the way that cat design is going. I guess it helps them build in some obsolescence too which already appears to be happening.
You both are absolutely right about the current trade-off between analog and digital quality. I for one fear, that those "newfangled" premium cars get developed much to deep in the digital realm. That BMW might have looked halfway okey on a giant screen. But you feel it all wrong, when it is merging into the lane right next to you...The press race about it as well; the A Class interior gets a lot of love but I think it’s rubbish. You much info on the screens, too many cheap / crap feeling bits, the stupid Mercedes ‘assistant’ that wakes up when you say Mercedes. The thing that bugs me the most is that the rocket switches for the temperature are nowhere near the part of the screen that tells guy you the cabin temperature is...who thought that was a good idea?
But these seems very much the way that cat design is going. I guess it helps them build in some obsolescence too which already appears to be happening.
Thus I am not in the position to get a new lease at the moment. I hate to look backwards at "the good old times" while only being 46, now.
The only thing I aspire to, at the moment, would be a Model S, which presents its on challenges...
Martin 480 Turbo said:
Court_S said:
That’s not a bad analogy; it seems most are won over by the show room appeal of the big screens etc.
The press race about it as well; the A Class interior gets a lot of love but I think it’s rubbish. You much info on the screens, too many cheap / crap feeling bits, the stupid Mercedes ‘assistant’ that wakes up when you say Mercedes. The thing that bugs me the most is that the rocket switches for the temperature are nowhere near the part of the screen that tells guy you the cabin temperature is...who thought that was a good idea?
But these seems very much the way that cat design is going. I guess it helps them build in some obsolescence too which already appears to be happening.
You both are absolutely right about the current trade-off between analog and digital quality. I for one fear, that those "newfangled" premium cars get developed much to deep in the digital realm. That BMW might have looked halfway okey on a giant screen. But you feel it all wrong, when it is merging into the lane right next to you...The press race about it as well; the A Class interior gets a lot of love but I think it’s rubbish. You much info on the screens, too many cheap / crap feeling bits, the stupid Mercedes ‘assistant’ that wakes up when you say Mercedes. The thing that bugs me the most is that the rocket switches for the temperature are nowhere near the part of the screen that tells guy you the cabin temperature is...who thought that was a good idea?
But these seems very much the way that cat design is going. I guess it helps them build in some obsolescence too which already appears to be happening.
Thus I am not in the position to get a new lease at the moment. I hate to look backwards at "the good old times" while only being 46, now.
The only thing I aspire to, at the moment, would be a Model S, which presents its on challenges...
The new car that really surprised me recently was a loaner Seat Leon. It had a really nice balance of new and old. The touchscreen just did the entertainment stuff and the stuff you needed for driving was on nicely made, solid feeling dials and knobs. It was arguably the car that did remind me that the most modern stuff can be usable and inspired me to go out shopping for something.
Damn, that tacked on screen on the Audi is pure bad design, absolutely ridiculous. Why did they not stick with the retractable screens they had for ages.
The BMW is not much better, but at least there is a bit of an effort to somehow integrate it. Why did they not stick with the F10 dash design with the nicely integrated screen?
Bad design, plain and straight!
The BMW is not much better, but at least there is a bit of an effort to somehow integrate it. Why did they not stick with the F10 dash design with the nicely integrated screen?
Bad design, plain and straight!
justa1972 said:
Court_S said:
It’s actually a pretty efficient engine. My M140i has averaged just shy of 31mpg since I collected it in June.
Yes but 37 in a substantially bigger carRound town it would be 27mpg.
Sat at 70 it would see 42/43mpg.
I would like to think that 15 years later it could see close to that with a few long runs.
But being realistic I bet it will be around 30/31 average for most.
Problem is, many how buy petrol only do 10k miles a year or so, those that do 20-30k a year often buy diesels, this skews the figures somewhat when owners compare on forums.
I've a '15 A6 Avant with the perfect blend of screen for nav etc (Inc one in between dials) all configurable etc but controlled by the MMI wheel and a few buttons, I can do it all without looking anywhere but the road.
Had a Toureg for a few days last week, so much tech but so difficult to control with the touchscreen especially awkward.
Way forward is for Android auto so you can tell it what to do, had it on a Ford Kuga a while ago and loved it, wish mine had it!
Had a Toureg for a few days last week, so much tech but so difficult to control with the touchscreen especially awkward.
Way forward is for Android auto so you can tell it what to do, had it on a Ford Kuga a while ago and loved it, wish mine had it!
Have to say agreed there is a lot of negative nellys on what will (maybe) some of the last few iterations of their kind.
I am exactly their target audience, previous 340i touring owner, wants a grunty estate but cant justify the outlay on a c63 rs4 etc.
To me the choice I have is between the bmw and a c43, I do lots of short trips so derv is no use (or want, having let head rule heart last time and took a comically cheap v90 d5 lease) so the admittedly lovely Audi is out.
The c43 would doubtless appeal with the noise alone but I dont like the interior or boring looks.
I have even got used to the ugly grille of the g series and on the short test drive I had of an m340 touring confirmed my expectations. A newer, more luxurious slightly sportier upgrade over a 340i.
Yes yes a leon cupra estate, golf r estate, vrs etc are all cracking cars at a chunk less but for the real price we pay on PCPs what else is there to get a 6pot petrol with family duties?
I am exactly their target audience, previous 340i touring owner, wants a grunty estate but cant justify the outlay on a c63 rs4 etc.
To me the choice I have is between the bmw and a c43, I do lots of short trips so derv is no use (or want, having let head rule heart last time and took a comically cheap v90 d5 lease) so the admittedly lovely Audi is out.
The c43 would doubtless appeal with the noise alone but I dont like the interior or boring looks.
I have even got used to the ugly grille of the g series and on the short test drive I had of an m340 touring confirmed my expectations. A newer, more luxurious slightly sportier upgrade over a 340i.
Yes yes a leon cupra estate, golf r estate, vrs etc are all cracking cars at a chunk less but for the real price we pay on PCPs what else is there to get a 6pot petrol with family duties?
Edited by 225 on Sunday 16th February 22:03
225 said:
Yes yes a leon cupra estate, golf r estate, vrs etc are all cracking cars at a chunk less but for the real price we pay on PCPs what else is there to get a 6pot petrol with family duties?
Porsche Macan S maybe?Petrol turbo 3.0 V6 + DSG, and the "list price" of £49,300 appears to be cheaper than either of these.
Admittedly discounts are rare and you'll get stung on options, but better residuals should help. Be interesting to see what PCP deals are like...
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