RE: Gavan Kershaw on Lotus Emira | PH Meets

[honda_exige]

CraigyMc said:

The M139 (and its predecessor, the M133) is in the:

• A45 / A45 S
• CLA A45 / A45 S
• GLA A45 / A45S

Sure, they are assembled by one person, as opposed to by several people working on a line. The measurements and so on are then done robotically as the motor moves down the production line on its robotic trolley. None of that detracts from the fact that AMG make thousands of them a year - it is a mass produced motor in a factory that has 1700 staff, of which about 100 put the engines together.
As an aside, AMG don't only make motors in Affalterbach. They also make engines in Mannheim (it's where their V12s are built).

By comparison to that, toyota didn't fit the supercharger to their V6 (they paid for Harrop to develop it, then canned the project it was destined for) so... nope.
Didn't make any of that up.
There are definitely a lot more mass-produced AMG A45-spec motors (M133/M139) in the world than handbuilt supercharged Toyota V6 2GR-FEs.

If I'm wrong, educate me.

Edited by CraigyMc on Thursday 8th July 15:45

Strapping a supercharger on makes the V6 hand-built? Oh my days, guess that makes the K20 in my Lotus hand-built because I changed the intake

The Merc AMG M139 IS hand built and has forged pistons/crankshaft as standard, THAT is pretty special, plus a closed deck design meaning people are already getting 600bhp out of it with replacement Turbos. I like the V6 but Lotus made it good in spite of its origins not because of it.

In fact given what Lotus did with the V6 I have a feeling that the 4 pot sound track will be entertaining. Sitting ahead of it means we should get lots of Turbo induction sound goodness.

[otolith]

honda_exige said:

In fact given what Lotus did with the V6 I have a feeling that the 4 pot sound track will be entertaining. Sitting ahead of it means we should get lots of Turbo induction sound goodness.

Not convinced, people say that the AMG sounds good, but if so it doesn’t come through on YouTube where it just sounds like a big Hoover.

[TdM-GTV]

98elise said:

TdM-GTV said:

Boot is different to the Evora but similar. We have to be clear that 100% all new may in fact mean... We tweaked the Evora, after all the Evora 400 was 'all new' with a 'new chassis' when it was released according to Lotus.

Read, they tweaked it to drop the sills. The Emira is remarkably similar in dimensions and basic looks.

Same sort of logic that proves the current 911 is in fact a Beetle. Made of the same stuff and looks vaguely similar.

I'm not saying it's the same. I was also stating that the boot, which was intimated to be the same is different.

What I am saying is that Lotus stating it's all new has history of not being true. In the Beetle front, the evidence is far higher of reuse here than in the 911. It doesn't exactly matter, but isn't it a bit odd that a brand new 2 seater has basically the same configuration as the previous 4 seater?

[boozyjay]

otolith said:

honda_exige said:

In fact given what Lotus did with the V6 I have a feeling that the 4 pot sound track will be entertaining. Sitting ahead of it means we should get lots of Turbo induction sound goodness.

Not convinced, people say that the AMG sounds good, but if so it doesn’t come through on YouTube where it just sounds like a big Hoover.

I used to own an A45. It's not a bad sounding engine at all for a four pot.

[BVB]

Very Ferrari looking.

[SidewaysSi]

TdM-GTV said:

98elise said:

TdM-GTV said:

Boot is different to the Evora but similar. We have to be clear that 100% all new may in fact mean... We tweaked the Evora, after all the Evora 400 was 'all new' with a 'new chassis' when it was released according to Lotus.

Read, they tweaked it to drop the sills. The Emira is remarkably similar in dimensions and basic looks.

Same sort of logic that proves the current 911 is in fact a Beetle. Made of the same stuff and looks vaguely similar.

I'm not saying it's the same. I was also stating that the boot, which was intimated to be the same is different.

What I am saying is that Lotus stating it's all new has history of not being true. In the Beetle front, the evidence is far higher of reuse here than in the 911. It doesn't exactly matter, but isn't it a bit odd that a brand new 2 seater has basically the same configuration as the previous 4 seater?

Maybe but the Evora was always an ugly old thing. They put lipstick on it over the years but there was no hiding it looked a bit cack IMO.

The Emira rights all the wrongs from the past and looks like it is pretty much sold out within a couple of days.

[98elise]

boozyjay said:

otolith said:

honda_exige said:

In fact given what Lotus did with the V6 I have a feeling that the 4 pot sound track will be entertaining. Sitting ahead of it means we should get lots of Turbo induction sound goodness.

Not convinced, people say that the AMG sounds good, but if so it doesn’t come through on YouTube where it just sounds like a big Hoover.

I used to own an A45. It's not a bad sounding engine at all for a four pot.

The Toyota V6 sounds great, with the right exhaust it sounds epic.

[Shnozz]

98elise said:

boozyjay said:

otolith said:

honda_exige said:

In fact given what Lotus did with the V6 I have a feeling that the 4 pot sound track will be entertaining. Sitting ahead of it means we should get lots of Turbo induction sound goodness.

Not convinced, people say that the AMG sounds good, but if so it doesn’t come through on YouTube where it just sounds like a big Hoover.

I used to own an A45. It's not a bad sounding engine at all for a four pot.

The Toyota V6 sounds great, with the right exhaust it sounds epic.

To be fair, almost any engine with the right exhaust can sound good. Over the years whatever engine has been in a Lotus (often mainstream), they have made it sound a world apart from its original fitment car. And where they haven't, Jim Valentine generally could. I have no doubt the AMG engine will have a decent tone to it too.

[CABC]

Shnozz said:

To be fair, almost any engine with the right exhaust can sound good. Over the years whatever engine has been in a Lotus (often mainstream), they have made it sound a world apart from its original fitment car. And where they haven't, Jim Valentine generally could. I have no doubt the AMG engine will have a decent tone to it too.

Agree. Be good forthe oem to avoid the ott schoolboy stuff, like the Audi S3 that just raced by me!

[as7920]

High praise for the engine from Henry

https://youtu.be/H0F-24tYR9Y

[nfrendo001]

CraigyMc said:

It's not actually that clear, because the AMG motor is quite heavy for a 2.0 i4 (about 161kg dry) and the V6 is quite light for a 3.5l V6 (about 163kg wet for the basic engine, but you'd have to add some weight for the supercharger).

It may work out to be similar given that the AMG motor is only coming with a double-clutch gearbox, and the V6 has a manual or IPS option.

This is consistent with what the Lotus fella at Goodwood told me yesterday, that no real weight difference between manual V6 and 2.0 car. In terms of price, I was told V6 would be £5-10k more than 2.0. My deposit has gone down on a V6 mainly as want manual, but also the sound. I’m sure both set ups will be great, the car looked stunning and interior a big step up, if bothered about that.

[otolith]

Shnozz said:

98elise said:

boozyjay said:

otolith said:

honda_exige said:

In fact given what Lotus did with the V6 I have a feeling that the 4 pot sound track will be entertaining. Sitting ahead of it means we should get lots of Turbo induction sound goodness.

Not convinced, people say that the AMG sounds good, but if so it doesn’t come through on YouTube where it just sounds like a big Hoover.

I used to own an A45. It's not a bad sounding engine at all for a four pot.

The Toyota V6 sounds great, with the right exhaust it sounds epic.

To be fair, almost any engine with the right exhaust can sound good. Over the years whatever engine has been in a Lotus (often mainstream), they have made it sound a world apart from its original fitment car. And where they haven't, Jim Valentine generally could. I have no doubt the AMG engine will have a decent tone to it too.

Four pots still sound like four pots even with a 2bular on the end. You can’t make a kazoo sound like a saxophone, and as far as I can hear the repertoire of the AMG in the A45 amounts to both “fart” and “bang”.

[R400TVR]

Had a good look at this at Goodwood. Tried to get in with assurances that I'd fit even at my size, but to no avail. Typical!
But, it looks good, has a proper manual gearbox, a nice sounding V6, doesn't fart and pop, has hydraulic steering, and a lack of modes. Well done Lotus! Hopefully the nasty AMG motor won't ruin it by popping and farting with no manual option.
I hope that this sells, but also hope that it doesn't signify the end of the 'old school' Lotus of light and quick.

[xcentric]

nfrendo001 said:

This is consistent with what the Lotus fella at Goodwood told me yesterday, that no real weight difference between manual V6 and 2.0 car. In terms of price, I was told V6 would be £5-10k more than 2.0. My deposit has gone down on a V6 mainly as want manual, but also the sound. I’m sure both set ups will be great, the car looked stunning and interior a big step up, if bothered about that.

My understanding is that a deposit is for a build slot, is fully refundable until you spec the car, probably in late September, for delivery next year. It's at the spec stage that you choose the engine, with the 4 pot available first.

[Matthew-4frv8]

xcentric said:

nfrendo001 said:

This is consistent with what the Lotus fella at Goodwood told me yesterday, that no real weight difference between manual V6 and 2.0 car. In terms of price, I was told V6 would be £5-10k more than 2.0. My deposit has gone down on a V6 mainly as want manual, but also the sound. I’m sure both set ups will be great, the car looked stunning and interior a big step up, if bothered about that.

My understanding is that a deposit is for a build slot, is fully refundable until you spec the car, probably in late September, for delivery next year. It's at the spec stage that you choose the engine, with the 4 pot available first.

No, the v6 will be first.

[Talksteer]

98elise said:

T1berious said:

cypriot said:

samoht said:

+1

Or to put it another way, "why does the Emira have the same wheelbase as the Evora, given the latter is a 2+2 and the new car a strict two seater?"

why are people insisting on ignoring what has been said? it is NOT an updated platform. It is all 100% new. Everything. End of discussion.

In the Carfection vid Gavin does goe into the new chassis and where it differs from the existing. They are however using the same bonding tech.

Using the same production method doesn't make it the same chassis. The Elsie uses that technology and it's completely different to the Evora. Aston Martin also use the technology.

There is a sweet spot of around the low 10,000s of units per year where bonded aluminium extrusions is the lowest overall cost solution. The tooling and production equipment is relatively cheap compared to stamping presses and robot welders. As you go on in volume more parts start making sense as stampings and eventually a move to pressed steel make sense.

[hammondt]

AshD said:

Kershaw = Legend

Shame Matt Becker went to AM.

Have memories of being driven round Hethel by both of them along with McQueen too.

You just know this is going to be fantastic to drive.

I never met Matt, but I remember being driven around the Hethel track in my own Esprit by his dad, back in the days when I was a Lotus shareholder. Roger was a delight and one of the nicest guys I have ever met.

[Pomsteroonie]

T1berious said:

It's such an important car for Lotus.

I mean it's going to be released in several markets and it's showcasing a new design direction as well as a shift in priorities. Ultimately it still needs to drive like a Lotus (Hydraulic steering in 2021!?) but the worlds moved on.

I'm sure there will be a stripped out racer later down the line for die hard faithful but this needs to work in the US, Asia and Europe.

Can't wait to see a hybrid / full EV version further down the line

If i was in the market for a 60k - 70k fun car, this is exactly where i'd put my cash (Suddenly makes the BMW M4 look comedically expensive).

Edited by T1berious on Thursday 8th July 09:52

Just sold my M4 CS at the top of the market for one of these. I was at Goodwood FOS and it was just stunning, then I went over to the M stand and boy have they lost thier way. The new one (looks aside) is just too big, with too much plastic stuck to it. The interior is truly next level but from someone that's owned most of the Ms since 2004 including the CSL and the current CS - BMW have an idendtity crisis on their hands.

[Pomsteroonie]

Shnozz said:

Jesus.

I am a bit edgy as I put my deposit with JCT which they happily accepted and told me where I am on their list. However, I read on PH that other dealers (B&C notably) have been directing clients straight to Lotus to lay deposits. Not sure how this is all going to work out...

They have the time and date stamp from all orders placed on the website, at Goodwood and through the dealer network, yestersday they started to build a customer deposit database so fingers crossed, those of us that got on and ordered one will be well looked after.

I'd have had the V6 if there was a DCT version but my JCW is manual and really like paddles for track driving so will wait to next August/September for mine.

[Nearlyretired]

chirurgus said:

I’ve yet to see in print or in a video review what the bodywork is made from. Have Lotus continued with a fibreglass body over the aluminium tub, or do steel panels explain some of the weight gain over their previous cars?

Fibreglass?
Haven't Lotus used composite for years?
All the S2 Elises used composite and only the Exiges fibreglass.