RE: 2023 Alpine A110 R | PH Review
Discussion
cidered77 said:
not too unforgiveable to forget a car that targets 24 units per year.
Am sure it's great, hope it is- good luck to people who take the plunge. But you cannot compare this GRP bodied steel chassied Ford crate engined low volume maybe-it-will-maybe-it-wont-survive machine to a series production car, NCAP tested, meeting emissions standards, with a warranty, and a dealer network (small as it is), and a resale value, etc. etc etc
The "it's not really that light" typically PH "so what" angle to this thread is a bit tedious.
it's light - it's just an objective fact. And no amount of Suziki Vitara data is going to change that.
Yes, guess what many years ago TVR produced a car also with a GRP body that was a similar weight and loads of powwaaarrr. Sometimes they even worked as well! They don't make cars anymore, I note.
I test drove the (prototype) Vertige last year... it drives very well but what ruled it out for me was getting in and out (sound familiar?) - the doors dictate that you stand in the footwell, lean back against the seat and slide down into the driving position. Makes an Elise (with no hood up) look easy and my Alpine une morceau de gataux. Am sure it's great, hope it is- good luck to people who take the plunge. But you cannot compare this GRP bodied steel chassied Ford crate engined low volume maybe-it-will-maybe-it-wont-survive machine to a series production car, NCAP tested, meeting emissions standards, with a warranty, and a dealer network (small as it is), and a resale value, etc. etc etc
The "it's not really that light" typically PH "so what" angle to this thread is a bit tedious.
it's light - it's just an objective fact. And no amount of Suziki Vitara data is going to change that.
Yes, guess what many years ago TVR produced a car also with a GRP body that was a similar weight and loads of powwaaarrr. Sometimes they even worked as well! They don't make cars anymore, I note.
rampangle said:
HokumPokum said:
The aerokit on the A110S was a near 5k option and was already impressive for what it is.
What was so impressive about it?https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/top-st...
I think that significant downforce on road going cars is a fallacy as well.
but the fact that proper wind tunnel work is done is different than the other aerokits on the market. Here at least, if you believe the marketing, they looked into what can be achieved in an F1 wind tunnel through testing and optimise for what they believe to be optimum in consideration of drag vs downforce.
It certainly is better than just slapping on a bodykit and claiming it produces downforce.
That is what buyers of the aerokit get. Not everyone believes it is worth the money but that's subjective
HokumPokum said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here
https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/top-st...
I think that significant downforce on road going cars is a fallacy as well.
but the fact that proper wind tunnel work is done is different than the other aerokits on the market. Here at least, if you believe the marketing, they looked into what can be achieved in an F1 wind tunnel through testing and optimise for what they believe to be optimum in consideration of drag vs downforce.
It certainly is better than just slapping on a bodykit and claiming it produces downforce.
That is what buyers of the aerokit get. Not everyone believes it is worth the money but that's subjective
Well, the F1 wind tunnel story is awfully nice. But the net result when cornering at 100mph is about 40kg of downforce for £5k. To me, that's not especially impressive for the money or the claimed F1 wind tunnel effort.https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/news-on-air/top-st...
I think that significant downforce on road going cars is a fallacy as well.
but the fact that proper wind tunnel work is done is different than the other aerokits on the market. Here at least, if you believe the marketing, they looked into what can be achieved in an F1 wind tunnel through testing and optimise for what they believe to be optimum in consideration of drag vs downforce.
It certainly is better than just slapping on a bodykit and claiming it produces downforce.
That is what buyers of the aerokit get. Not everyone believes it is worth the money but that's subjective
I mean, come on, what else are they going to say other than that they optimised for this and that?
If you want impressive, that'll be the 992 RS which does 860kg at 177mph - coincidentally the Alpine's top speed. Which means you've still got hundreds of kilos of downforce at cornering speeds. Totally different class of car, of course, but that is meaningful downforce.
The aero on this Alpine is nothing remotely special. It's the usual marketing-driven stuff. Yes, there's some 'downforce' but really only enough to justify the marketing talk. Nothing of truly material consequence. OK, 3-4% more downward pressure on the tyres versus neutral aero will make a measurable difference to a laptime, might take half a second off a lap or whatever. But we're talking very small margins.
timbo999 said:
I test drove the (prototype) Vertige last year... it drives very well but what ruled it out for me was getting in and out (sound familiar?) - the doors dictate that you stand in the footwell, lean back against the seat and slide down into the driving position. Makes an Elise (with no hood up) look easy and my Alpine une morceau de gataux.
Sorry to hear about the access issue - I thought the fact that the doors could be opened fully in most parking spaces was an asset. If it's worse than an Elise it might rule it out as a car my OH would be happy to drive. As you say the A110 is very user friendly in that regard. I have owned an S2 Exige S for 15 years and last week bought an Alpine 110 S second-hand for a third less money than the R. The Exige is probably the best hardcore sports car you could buy at the time with phenomenal grip and the absence of any electronic aids (except a pathetic ABS) giving it an extraordinarily direct feel. Once you understood that it was rear rather than mid engined it is very well balanced right up to the limit.
So why did I buy the Alpine? The Lotus was my route to racing and it was driven all over the UK and Europe on public roads to get to track days. This was tolerable if you ignored the fact that cockpit noise made the radio redundant, my wife would not get in it because she thought it would knock her teeth out (despite Nitron adjustable dampers) as every bump on the road kicked you up the bum. No sat-nav meant getting lost too many times when going to unfamiliar circuits.
I tested both the standard Alpine on public roads and the S on a wet day at Thruxton a couple of years ago, the latter with all the aids turned off. The S was very quick and predictable, but I missed a gear stick and that sense of immediacy that the Lotus has. I also could not afford it.
I remain a fan of Lotus but subsequent models got heavier, more powerful and less engaging. At the time I thought that trying to get into supercar territory was a strategic mistake. Light and agile cars are at the core of the Lotus proposition. Then this secondhand S came up for sale and I went for a test drive, as I did in the Exige. Chalk and cheese. Shove the S into automatic mode and going to Aldi becomes a pleasant experience. I can listen to the radio, the seats are much more comfortable. It is still a hard ride, but not teeth rattling. Turn off all the electronic aids and it is bloody quick and the electronics, though confusing at first, can tell you everything you want to know including lap times to where the hell you are. This is a car I can use on the road as well as the track with pleasure.
The Exige is up for sale on Pistonheads.
So why did I buy the Alpine? The Lotus was my route to racing and it was driven all over the UK and Europe on public roads to get to track days. This was tolerable if you ignored the fact that cockpit noise made the radio redundant, my wife would not get in it because she thought it would knock her teeth out (despite Nitron adjustable dampers) as every bump on the road kicked you up the bum. No sat-nav meant getting lost too many times when going to unfamiliar circuits.
I tested both the standard Alpine on public roads and the S on a wet day at Thruxton a couple of years ago, the latter with all the aids turned off. The S was very quick and predictable, but I missed a gear stick and that sense of immediacy that the Lotus has. I also could not afford it.
I remain a fan of Lotus but subsequent models got heavier, more powerful and less engaging. At the time I thought that trying to get into supercar territory was a strategic mistake. Light and agile cars are at the core of the Lotus proposition. Then this secondhand S came up for sale and I went for a test drive, as I did in the Exige. Chalk and cheese. Shove the S into automatic mode and going to Aldi becomes a pleasant experience. I can listen to the radio, the seats are much more comfortable. It is still a hard ride, but not teeth rattling. Turn off all the electronic aids and it is bloody quick and the electronics, though confusing at first, can tell you everything you want to know including lap times to where the hell you are. This is a car I can use on the road as well as the track with pleasure.
The Exige is up for sale on Pistonheads.
spikyone said:
Unless you happen to be Marine Le Pen, why on earth would you want an Alpine more than a Lotus? My thoughts were exactly the same when I saw the price; the Lotus looks much less like something out of the first Fast and the Furious movie, is probably at least 98% as good on track, and is almost certainly better on the road.
I'm glad the Alpine exists and I don't doubt that it's very good. You'd have to really, really want one to spend £90k on it when it's more expensive than an Emira and similar money to this...
You need to compare apples with apples can you get a 2023 GT4 for 90k?I'm glad the Alpine exists and I don't doubt that it's very good. You'd have to really, really want one to spend £90k on it when it's more expensive than an Emira and similar money to this...
Also the Lotus isn't as track focused from what I've read, there will be a more track focused Emira & i'll bet it'll be 90k+.
Utterly awesome and would be an early entry in my lottery garage alongside a rally spec early 70s A110. admittedly I am biased as I am 10 months into A110 ownership. Had a typically Alpine experience today. Parked up outside the local post office. A hipster guy sat in an old Hilux calls out to ask me what the car is. When i say its an Alpine he gets out comes over has a long chat and take a few pictures to send to his mate, Absolutely enthralled. He left saying we would have never bothered if it was a Gayman and would probably have. Been rude to the driver.
I would rather be sailing said:
Utterly awesome and would be an early entry in my lottery garage alongside a rally spec early 70s A110. admittedly I am biased as I am 10 months into A110 ownership. Had a typically Alpine experience today. Parked up outside the local post office. A hipster guy sat in an old Hilux calls out to ask me what the car is. When i say its an Alpine he gets out comes over has a long chat and take a few pictures to send to his mate, Absolutely enthralled. He left saying we would have never bothered if it was a Gayman and would probably have. Been rude to the driver.
If yourself and the imaginary homophobe you describe were ever likely to be truly representative of the demographic that would have to be tolerated by merely owning an Alpine then I'd happily rather walk instead to decrease the risk of being unfortunate enough to meet anybody like you both.I assume that most cars that use some form of wheel based aero do so predominantly on the rear axle as the front bumper can be used to effectively direct the airflow around the front wheels? I've often wondered why the Speedtail is the reverse of many utilising the benefits and why it's rear wheels weren't subjected to the same treatment?
Edited by Harrypop on Sunday 29th January 05:33
If I had £90k to spend on a light high performance car I'd probably look more at the McLaren market..
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13830197
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13830197
CerberaNZ said:
If I had £90k to spend on a light high performance car I'd probably look more at the McLaren market..
How much extra a year for the extended warranty, fuel, insurance, and servicing on the McLaren? I bet its ace, but it's a very different thing.I'm in the "the base A110 is the one to get" camp, but some of the alternatives people have offered are a bit silly. I mean, instead of that McLaren you could have this and a nearly-new Golf!
https://www.unimogs.co.uk/our-stock/unimogs/u500-2...
CerberaNZ said:
If I had £90k to spend on a light high performance car I'd probably look more at the McLaren market..
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13830197
wait... what!? Used cars cost less than new cars!? *When did this happen and why wasn't i told*!!??!https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13830197
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