RE: Tesla (unofficially) regains EV 'ring record

[Angelo1985]

galro said:

The Giulia is surely in the class under. It's slightly shorter than the Model 3.

You’re right, actually. Alfa hasn’t released a successor to the 166 yet…whether that’s good or bad 😃

[Leon R]

Nomme de Plum said:

Leon R said:

Nomme de Plum said:

I'm a boomer and laughing my socks off at some of the nonsense posted in many of the EV related threads, in the main not by us older generation.

Some us relish progress and change, others seem afraid of it. It certainly isn't age determined.

The Tesla is a big family saloon so its performance can and should only measured against similar cars. Porsche will need to up their game. The Taycan really put a smile on my face when I had it.

Afraid is the wrong term for 90% of folks. Most people are not scared of having an EV they just know they will miss aspects of their ICE.

But the vast majority of those aspects could be replicated in an EV, even down to throttle response, gears, noise and vibration.

The question is why anyone would want to?

They can’t be replicated, at best they can be faked but I know I wouldn’t want that and I don’t think I said anyone would want it.

Some people like steam trains, some people like old warbirds and some like vinyl records.

People on this site like the internal combustion engine and will miss it if it is gone.

[E90_M3Ross]

Leon R said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Leon R said:

Nomme de Plum said:

I'm a boomer and laughing my socks off at some of the nonsense posted in many of the EV related threads, in the main not by us older generation.

Some us relish progress and change, others seem afraid of it. It certainly isn't age determined.

The Tesla is a big family saloon so its performance can and should only measured against similar cars. Porsche will need to up their game. The Taycan really put a smile on my face when I had it.

Afraid is the wrong term for 90% of folks. Most people are not scared of having an EV they just know they will miss aspects of their ICE.

But the vast majority of those aspects could be replicated in an EV, even down to throttle response, gears, noise and vibration.

The question is why anyone would want to?

They can’t be replicated, at best they can be faked but I know I wouldn’t want that and I don’t think I said anyone would want it.

Some people like steam trains, some people like old warbirds and some like vinyl records.

People on this site like the internal combustion engine and will miss it if it is gone.

Well put. Not long ago I went in a Taycan 4S and found it largely boring, despite being plenty quick enough. One big issue with me with EVs is the current charging infrastructure. It simply doesn't work for me. I don't want to spend an hour+ at a charging station and I would have no ability to put it on charge at home. Instantly rules it out.

[big_rob_sydney]

pheonix478 said:

autumnsum said:

Does anyone else come to EV threads just to see the boomers crying?
...

It is stupid posts like this and the tragic fanboi-ism of people like "bigrob" that put a great many people off even contemplating trying an EV. I mean, I've got an EV and even I'm embarrassed by you people.

It is true that I'm a fan of EV's. I'm also a fan of Subaru, Lexus, sportsbikes, tennis, and living in Spain, among a great many other things. If you find some of my enthusiasm too much, then I do apologise for that. In the same breath though, I would ask you to maybe, you know, TELL me, what exactly you disagree with and why. I had thought this place was meant to be a broad church. It would be disappointing to find that supporters of this broad church idea turn out to be closet bigots.

[big_rob_sydney]

E90_M3Ross said:

cobra kid said:

Yes but it's not a petrol car. Would you compare a top fuel dragster 1/4 mile against my Hyundai i40?

That's a somewhat obtuse example, one is road legal, the other isn't. Just like people compare petrol to diesel.

Well blow me down. This is exactly what I said to you (one is road legal, the other isn't), and yet you wanted to argue the toss. And now you're saying the exact same thing. Well, well, well. Could you be any more hypocritical?

[E90_M3Ross]

big_rob_sydney said:

E90_M3Ross said:

cobra kid said:

Yes but it's not a petrol car. Would you compare a top fuel dragster 1/4 mile against my Hyundai i40?

That's a somewhat obtuse example, one is road legal, the other isn't. Just like people compare petrol to diesel.

Well blow me down. This is exactly what I said to you (one is road legal, the other isn't), and yet you wanted to argue the toss. And now you're saying the exact same thing. Well, well, well. Could you be any more hypocritical?

Actually the McMurtry is going to be road legal.

[thelostboy]

dvs_dave said:

WCZ said:

BrownEaredDog said:

Do you have a link? The only experienced ‘Ring driver vids I can find are with Dale Lomas and Misha Charoudin and they are just analyses.

I don’t doubt that it wasn’t the greatest car around the Nordschleife though, it’s something of a chungus and no amount of insane power, suspension tuning or sticky rubber is going to hide that

I think it was Misha Charoudin, I'd had a few beers when I was watching it but that's what I took away from the video !

I saw that and was left thinking, well no st it’s not the best track car. It’s a 2 and a half ton 5-door limo. Try doing the same in an S-class or a 7-series, I’m sure the takeaway would be similar. Of course there’s better handling cars on track.

Honestly, what were their expectations? That it’d be a light and nimble track monster, and when it turns out it isn’t, they’re all disappointed.

Oh, this 737 isn’t very agile compared to the Redbull Extra 300 I daily fly. Big disappointment, blah blah.

If it was the same video, I remember the owner of the Plaid and Misha basically calling BS on Tesla's 'Ring time. The owner had to modify his brakes just to be able to do a full lap without them cooking.

[big_rob_sydney]

E90_M3Ross said:

big_rob_sydney said:

E90_M3Ross said:

cobra kid said:

Yes but it's not a petrol car. Would you compare a top fuel dragster 1/4 mile against my Hyundai i40?

That's a somewhat obtuse example, one is road legal, the other isn't. Just like people compare petrol to diesel.

Well blow me down. This is exactly what I said to you (one is road legal, the other isn't), and yet you wanted to argue the toss. And now you're saying the exact same thing. Well, well, well. Could you be any more hypocritical?

Actually the McMurtry is going to be road legal.

The fact is, today it isn't. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your hypocrisy. Oh, and while we're at it, since you know what will happen in the future, how about you lend all of us some money so we can bet on the nags at Ascot. Clearly we can repay back from the winnings. I'll await your confirmation with bated breath...

[E90_M3Ross]

big_rob_sydney said:

The fact is, today it isn't. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your hypocrisy. Oh, and while we're at it, since you know what will happen in the future, how about you lend all of us some money so we can bet on the nags at Ascot. Clearly we can repay back from the winnings. I'll await your confirmation with bated breath...

I hope you realise I wasn't the person to bring up the McMurtry, I was simply replying to a comment mentioning it. No need to get so angry about it all Mr Tesla.

[Nomme de Plum]

Leon R said:

They can’t be replicated, at best they can be faked but I know I wouldn’t want that and I don’t think I said anyone would want it.

Some people like steam trains, some people like old warbirds and some like vinyl records.

People on this site like the internal combustion engine and will miss it if it is gone.

From a physics standpoint all those attributes that you like in your ICE can be exactly replicated synthetically to the point in testing you would not know the difference. Many modern performance cars already have synthetic engine noise reproduction.

Hi Fi is an interesting case in point. The technology over the last few years has allowed digitally reproduced music to equal and surpass analogue reproduction and I say this as someone who has run a number of very exotic record decks/arms/cartridge, Class A amps and valve amps over the years.

[Nomme de Plum]

E90_M3Ross said:

Well put. Not long ago I went in a Taycan 4S and found it largely boring, despite being plenty quick enough. One big issue with me with EVs is the current charging infrastructure. It simply doesn't work for me. I don't want to spend an hour+ at a charging station and I would have no ability to put it on charge at home. Instantly rules it out.

I much preferred my Taycan 4S to the Macan GTS it replaced. I never spent more than 20 mins charging the Taycan.

By the time it matters mid 2030s few of the perceived downsides of the EV will remain.

By the time EV numbers greatly exceed ICE on our roads and people get used to much less noise intrusion / pollution on our city streets I would not be surprised if public opinion started to consider ICE drivers not dissimilar than those that still to this day moan about not being able to smoke in a restaurant or other public enclosed place. My GD will get her first car next year. It will be an EV

[Bobtherallyfan]

Nomme de Plum said:

I much preferred my Taycan 4S to the Macan GTS it replaced. I never spent more than 20 mins charging the Taycan.

By the time it matters mid 2030s few of the perceived downsides of the EV will remain.

By the time EV numbers greatly exceed ICE on our roads and people get used to much less noise intrusion / pollution on our city streets I would not be surprised if public opinion started to consider ICE drivers not dissimilar than those that still to this day moan about not being able to smoke in a restaurant or other public enclosed place. My GD will get her first car next year. It will be an EV

Not sure about the noise pollution argument…it’s valid for ratty old diesels certainly, but in my village EV’s make far more noise with their constant high pitched whines than modern small capacity ICE cars do.

[Nomme de Plum]

Bobtherallyfan said:

Not sure about the noise pollution argument…it’s valid for ratty old diesels certainly, but in my village EV’s make far more noise with their constant high pitched whines than modern small capacity ICE cars do.

But this is PH so everyone drives a V8 as a minimum. it would be interesting to see actual noise data for various cars. HF sounds are relatively easily blocked by walls. LF vibrations are harder to mask.

[E90_M3Ross]

Nomme de Plum said:

E90_M3Ross said:

Well put. Not long ago I went in a Taycan 4S and found it largely boring, despite being plenty quick enough. One big issue with me with EVs is the current charging infrastructure. It simply doesn't work for me. I don't want to spend an hour+ at a charging station and I would have no ability to put it on charge at home. Instantly rules it out.

I much preferred my Taycan 4S to the Macan GTS it replaced. I never spent more than 20 mins charging the Taycan.

By the time it matters mid 2030s few of the perceived downsides of the EV will remain.

By the time EV numbers greatly exceed ICE on our roads and people get used to much less noise intrusion / pollution on our city streets I would not be surprised if public opinion started to consider ICE drivers not dissimilar than those that still to this day moan about not being able to smoke in a restaurant or other public enclosed place. My GD will get her first car next year. It will be an EV

How far would 20mins charge get you? I assume you had the ability to charge at home though, which is something I said I unfortunately wouldn't be able to have. I can't see 20mins charging getting you more than 100 miles which would soon become very irritating. Then, at the moment, public chargers aren't much cheaper than using petrol, depending on your car.

I know someone who sold their 911S for a Taycan Turbo, 6 months later they sold it and got another 911S. Although I guess a 911 is always going to be a bit more fun to drive than a Macan.

[big_rob_sydney]

E90_M3Ross said:

big_rob_sydney said:

The fact is, today it isn't. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your hypocrisy. Oh, and while we're at it, since you know what will happen in the future, how about you lend all of us some money so we can bet on the nags at Ascot. Clearly we can repay back from the winnings. I'll await your confirmation with bated breath...

I hope you realise I wasn't the person to bring up the McMurtry, I was simply replying to a comment mentioning it. No need to get so angry about it all Mr Tesla.

So when facts are brought in to the discussion to refute your argument, now you're backtracking and claiming I'm angry. Really? Is that the level of argument you stoop to now? You cant use facts so you make up some emotional rubbish?

[dinkel]

Nomme de Plum said:

It would be interesting to see actual noise data for various cars.

Well, modern EV makes more noise than most post-2010 cars.

The whining EV purr at least spreads some awareness amongst the pedastrians of which most lack environmental awareness and just walk and cross roads like there is no tomorrow.

Atkinson cycle cars tuff tuff around town in umpteenth gear and in utter silence.I think that is a modern peril we can do without.

I find it funny to notice these pedestrians who actually feel the dark brown Twin Spark hum in their bellies, and look up to speed up or hold their feet.

And yes, that adds to the reasons why we keep the 2006 Alfa.

[Nomme de Plum]

E90_M3Ross said:

How far would 20mins charge get you? I assume you had the ability to charge at home though, which is something I said I unfortunately wouldn't be able to have. I can't see 20mins charging getting you more than 100 miles which would soon become very irritating. Then, at the moment, public chargers aren't much cheaper than using petrol, depending on your car.

I know someone who sold their 911S for a Taycan Turbo, 6 months later they sold it and got another 911S. Although I guess a 911 is always going to be a bit more fun to drive than a Macan.

One can't compare a 911 which is effectively a 2 seater with the 4 seat Taycan. The 911 4S cabriolet is a great car and marvellous fun in the summer. The Taycan in Turissmo form is eminently more practicable all year round.

These are the vehicles i drive when I'm at my apartment in the Eu so no charging available in the underground garage.

I generally thought about recharging when the batteries dropped below 20% I found this "At a DC fast charging station, the maximum power of 225 kW charges the Porsche Taycan from 10 to 80 percent in around 21 minutes."

The reality trumps perception. It works perfectly well as quite a few have already stated in these threads. The best bit is the steady evolution of batteries mean that the next generation of EVs will have much better range with reduced weight.

[E90_M3Ross]

big_rob_sydney said:

E90_M3Ross said:

big_rob_sydney said:

The fact is, today it isn't. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your hypocrisy. Oh, and while we're at it, since you know what will happen in the future, how about you lend all of us some money so we can bet on the nags at Ascot. Clearly we can repay back from the winnings. I'll await your confirmation with bated breath...

I hope you realise I wasn't the person to bring up the McMurtry, I was simply replying to a comment mentioning it. No need to get so angry about it all Mr Tesla.

So when facts are brought in to the discussion to refute your argument, now you're backtracking and claiming I'm angry. Really? Is that the level of argument you stoop to now? You cant use facts so you make up some emotional rubbish?

For context

big_rob_sydney said:

E90_M3Ross said:

Sandpit Steve said:

tdm34 said:

Dohnut said:

Surely McMurty would wipe the floor here?

Now that would be interesting, maybe the first sub 7 minute lap?

I did wonder if McMurtry might have a go at this, or if the circuit is just too difficult (bumpy) for the way the car works with downforce? They should have just about enough battery for a lap, and it would be great to see them try. Theoretically, they’re faster than Bellof’s time, and well towards Timo Bernhard’s insane 919 EVO time.

If anything, the way the McMurtry generates downforce it'd be BETTER than a traditional aero car. Have a look at some videos, it is absolutely incredible. If you spin it, it's still generating downforce so the vehicle stops really rather quickly - so it is much less effected by bumps etc I'd have thought.

Not really comparing apples with apples, though. The Model S is a 4 door sedan that seats up to 5, plus quite a lot of luggage, and has a fully factory warranty, does hundreds of miles on a single "tank", and is legal to drive on public roads pretty much across the world.

How does the McMurtry compare to that?

Just for clarification, are we allowed to compare the Tesla against ICE cars? Are we allowed to value anything other than straight line speed? If so, it shows how bad the handling etc is on the Tesla when it needed track tyres to get a lap which is just a few seconds quicker than a BMW M3 on perfectly fine road legal tyres with just HALF of the power. Considering how fast the Tesla is in a straight line that's pretty shoddy IMO.

[Leon R]

Nomme de Plum said:

Leon R said:

They can’t be replicated, at best they can be faked but I know I wouldn’t want that and I don’t think I said anyone would want it.

Some people like steam trains, some people like old warbirds and some like vinyl records.

People on this site like the internal combustion engine and will miss it if it is gone.

From a physics standpoint all those attributes that you like in your ICE can be exactly replicated synthetically to the point in testing you would not know the difference. Many modern performance cars already have synthetic engine noise reproduction.

No they really can't and on top of that you know as well as I do that this will NEVER happen and nobody is even considering working on it.

[E90_M3Ross]

Nomme de Plum said:

E90_M3Ross said:

How far would 20mins charge get you? I assume you had the ability to charge at home though, which is something I said I unfortunately wouldn't be able to have. I can't see 20mins charging getting you more than 100 miles which would soon become very irritating. Then, at the moment, public chargers aren't much cheaper than using petrol, depending on your car.

I know someone who sold their 911S for a Taycan Turbo, 6 months later they sold it and got another 911S. Although I guess a 911 is always going to be a bit more fun to drive than a Macan.

One can't compare a 911 which is effectively a 2 seater with the 4 seat Taycan. The 911 4S cabriolet is a great car and marvellous fun in the summer. The Taycan in Turissmo form is eminently more practicable all year round.

These are the vehicles i drive when I'm at my apartment in the Eu so no charging available in the underground garage.

I generally thought about recharging when the batteries dropped below 20% I found this "At a DC fast charging station, the maximum power of 225 kW charges the Porsche Taycan from 10 to 80 percent in around 21 minutes."

The reality trumps perception. It works perfectly well as quite a few have already stated in these threads. The best bit is the steady evolution of batteries mean that the next generation of EVs will have much better range with reduced weight.

Interesting. I've had a look on https://www.zap-map.com/live/ and the fastest charger remotely near me is max 50kW.

edit - actually, it's saying that was out of order yesterday, so it seems I'd currently be limited to 7kW. How long would that take to get me, say, 150 miles? Although there is a 50kW one, but that's an 8 mile drive away, so currently about a 35-40min away (through town) as a round trip.