RE: UK (finally) registers millionth electric vehicle
Discussion
wildatheart said:
In fifteen years time we will all be asking how the powers that be could have been so deluded into thinking EV's were ever going to be sustainable.
In 15 years time, people will look back and laugh at people who though finite & dirty energy was the future, both of transport but our whole economy. Especially as much of it is sold by dictators of one flavour or another. Personally, I'm glad that those who campaigned against a move from charcoal and whale oil were ignored. Not o mention the keep horses on farms lobby.
500x said:
Nomme de Plum said:
What did you pay £16-18K? When did you sell it?
Was the 2L about £24K new in 2015 which would mean you sold when used car prices were highly inflated.
It was a fortunate occurrence. I had test drove the top spec Cross Plus with 18 inch wheels about 9 months before and didnt like it, the ride was too firm, so decided the best alternative was an upspeeced Cross version on 17's.
Then the biggest car supermarket motor***** started getting them in July/ Aug 2017. The backstory was they were all registed late dec 2016 at a main dealer in Reading, then were probably overpriced so just sat. They must have offloaded 20-30 to Motor*****, all either blue, green or red that I saw. They were advertised as standard spec but you could see from the pics they werent, i could tell they had the £400 comfort pack, inc keyless, armrest, and elec lumbar. Then when i saw it in the flesh it also had the £150 spare wheel. On the way home after driving it I also noticed it has the £950 safety pack, lol.....blind spot detection and all that. I priced the car up at the time and with the extras it was exactly £27k OTR.
I bit at £12,999 plus £99 admin fee, plus £150 road tax, £13,248 total.
When I came to sell I messed up by putting it on Ebay at £11,999, didnt have much interest so changed to autotrader gradually dropping the price about £250 a week. Ended up selling to a local kinda webuyanycar type place for £10,250, and about 15 mins after agreeing the deal I had a call from a lady on autotrader offering £500 more than this. I had to honour the deal I had. So ended up selling for £10,250.
I agree that the market was inflated a bit at the time of selling.
A great outcome. After 3 gremlins in the first 6 months the car ran like clockwork. Admittedly a noisy clock though.
Was the 2L about £24K new in 2015 which would mean you sold when used car prices were highly inflated.
It was a fortunate occurrence. I had test drove the top spec Cross Plus with 18 inch wheels about 9 months before and didnt like it, the ride was too firm, so decided the best alternative was an upspeeced Cross version on 17's.
Then the biggest car supermarket motor***** started getting them in July/ Aug 2017. The backstory was they were all registed late dec 2016 at a main dealer in Reading, then were probably overpriced so just sat. They must have offloaded 20-30 to Motor*****, all either blue, green or red that I saw. They were advertised as standard spec but you could see from the pics they werent, i could tell they had the £400 comfort pack, inc keyless, armrest, and elec lumbar. Then when i saw it in the flesh it also had the £150 spare wheel. On the way home after driving it I also noticed it has the £950 safety pack, lol.....blind spot detection and all that. I priced the car up at the time and with the extras it was exactly £27k OTR.
I bit at £12,999 plus £99 admin fee, plus £150 road tax, £13,248 total.
When I came to sell I messed up by putting it on Ebay at £11,999, didnt have much interest so changed to autotrader gradually dropping the price about £250 a week. Ended up selling to a local kinda webuyanycar type place for £10,250, and about 15 mins after agreeing the deal I had a call from a lady on autotrader offering £500 more than this. I had to honour the deal I had. So ended up selling for £10,250.
I agree that the market was inflated a bit at the time of selling.
A great outcome. After 3 gremlins in the first 6 months the car ran like clockwork. Admittedly a noisy clock though.
Edited by Nomme de Plum on Monday 5th February 15:42
Edited by Nomme de Plum on Monday 5th February 15:43
Now imagine it had been an EV. Some posters here would have been ecstatic stating how EVs deprecated like a stone in a few months.
You sold when some dealers were buying back cars at silly prices and good luck to you for selling when you did.
We are now back to the real world.
wildatheart said:
In fifteen years time we will all be asking how the powers that be could have been so deluded into thinking EV's were ever going to be sustainable.
Which bit is unsustainable?The battery minerals are sustainable, especially given they can be recycled for hundreds of years without loss of integrity.
About half of the battery's production footprint comes from the electricity consumed, there is nothing stopping that from being renewable generated.
Using mostly recycled minerals would cut the footprint in half anyway.
The electricity to charge the cars can also be entirely sustainable.
The obvious counter to what I've said is that none of that is happening (to that degree) yet, the point is that it can be so in a matter of a couple of decades.
If you have an open mind and can see a progression towards near 100% recycled batteries and renewable electricity, then the concept of electric prolusion is the very definition of sustainable.
There are also several other longer terms benefits that can enhance our energy security.
All of the electricity to charge them can be generated in-country by wind power.
All of the recycled mineral can be kept in-country to produce new batteries.
Once we get to that point, we need never again rely on other nations for vehicle batteries or the energy to operate them.
Legislation is being introduced in the UK and the EU to mandate 95% battery recycling, most manufacturers have already demonstrated this to be easily achievable using low-cost, low-temperature methods and massive investment is being made to upscale the readiness of these plants for when first-gen batteries reach end of life.
The impetus to recycle is not going to be a forced one anyway, as the value in those recycled minerals is high.
Right now, there just aren't enough batteries failing or at end-of-life.
Your (and my) ICE will consume about 10,000 kg of fossil fuel through its life.
Maybe a lot more if it's a bigger car.
Another 3000 kg of fuel is burned to refine that fuel from crude.
EV presents an opportunity to replace ten tons + of single use fuel with about 5-10 kg of lost minerals for each life cycle.
Plus whatever minuscule portion of each wind turbine that gets used up per vehicle lifecycle.
Scarcely believable, but the benefits of the ultra-high energy efficiency of the electric powertrain are undeniable.
Xenoous said:
I still see EVs as a white goods kind of purchase. Will only ever be a head over heart thing. Not for me, for the foreseeable at least.
So you turn off brain and buy from the gut, do you? You're a marketers dream, you are.Xenoous said:
Man, the future sucks, huh?
It doesn't actually, if you learn to embrace it. If you don't, it'll always be this inevitable thing you don't like.Maybe PH should have a sister website, called electronheads.
That would keep the two sides apart and stop every thread becoming a war of one-upmanship of anecdotes and myths.
Then again, I suppose that is where PH gets most of it's forum hits from, so I suspect they love putting articles up like this, standing back, and watching the fireworks.
Which iironically, is how I prefer to watch EV's.
That would keep the two sides apart and stop every thread becoming a war of one-upmanship of anecdotes and myths.
Then again, I suppose that is where PH gets most of it's forum hits from, so I suspect they love putting articles up like this, standing back, and watching the fireworks.
Which iironically, is how I prefer to watch EV's.
WPA said:
£1400 a year for 8k miles seems a lot, shed motoring and I paid less than that for a car a few years ago, insurance was under £200 for the year, tax is cheap enough and I only do 3000 miles so not a huge fuel bill, no service last year only the mot @ £150 with a few minor repairs.
It doesn't seem a lot - 8000 miles at 35 mpg times £1.38 a litre is over £1,400 just in fuel alone, let alone servicing, MoT, insurance, tyres, etc.
EV’s just aren’t a suitable option for many people. Fine for the powerfully built PH types with driveways and nice offices with car parks that have charging bays.
What about the 100’s of thousands of people who street park? Live in flats? Park wherever they can close to their work? And don’t earn a wage that could purchase an EV?
Lots of people buy <10k cars and keep them a long a time, fine you may be able to buy a used Zoe for that, with the fear of getting an outrageous bill for a new battery in a year or two.
It will never be the right option for the majority but more the well to do.
What about the 100’s of thousands of people who street park? Live in flats? Park wherever they can close to their work? And don’t earn a wage that could purchase an EV?
Lots of people buy <10k cars and keep them a long a time, fine you may be able to buy a used Zoe for that, with the fear of getting an outrageous bill for a new battery in a year or two.
It will never be the right option for the majority but more the well to do.
GT9 said:
I shouldn't be saying this as it's hush-hush, but there is a little known secret that allows people with less money to buy a car.
What they do, see, is buy a....used car.
Correct, and a normal used ICE car may get the odd fairly cheap to fix mechanical issue, an electric out of warranty may lead to a new battery multiple times the cost of the car. People who already have less money don’t want to take that risk. What they do, see, is buy a....used car.
P.Griffin said:
Sure, we get that electricity is cheaper than petrol, and you're not concerned with depreciation as they haven't bottomed out yet, but the current elephant in the room is insurance. I did a quote for a Taycan (as I didn't believe what someone had told me) and the quote came to roughly £3500. I'm old enough to know better with full no claims, the car will be garaged, and I live in a reasonable part of the South East. To put this in perspective, my Aston DBS was £500. 2p per mile isn't covering that.
I've just paid £500 insuring a BMW I4 M50 for the next year so clearly it's not quite as bad as some are suggesting.Glenn63 said:
EV’s just aren’t a suitable option for many people. Fine for the powerfully built PH types with driveways and nice offices with car parks that have charging bays.
What about the 100’s of thousands of people who street park? Live in flats? Park wherever they can close to their work? And don’t earn a wage that could purchase an EV?
Lots of people buy <10k cars and keep them a long a time, fine you may be able to buy a used Zoe for that, with the fear of getting an outrageous bill for a new battery in a year or two.
It will never be the right option for the majority but more the well to do.
More nonsense.What about the 100’s of thousands of people who street park? Live in flats? Park wherever they can close to their work? And don’t earn a wage that could purchase an EV?
Lots of people buy <10k cars and keep them a long a time, fine you may be able to buy a used Zoe for that, with the fear of getting an outrageous bill for a new battery in a year or two.
It will never be the right option for the majority but more the well to do.
The likelihood of you getting an “outrageous bill” for a new battery is very slim. Electricity has been proven for decades. Even before pure EV’s, theres tens of thousands old Priuses still running around, theres plenty of high mileage Zoe’s, Model S’, Kia Niros with no problems. When you buy a used Clio, do you budget for the impending doom of engine failure?
I know a fair few people both from work and my social circle from school. One of my mates got a Tesla Model Y a year ago, no charger at home. Probably does 18-20k a year in it for work. Spends a little bit of time every now and then topping it up at a Supercharger to 80%.
I work in London, doesn’t stop the tens of thousands of people here without driveways buying or charging EV’s. Every other cab I see these days seems to be a Tesla, VW ID4, Skoda Enyaq, a Kia EV6 or an MG. And it’s not London bias either, I used to live in Sheffield, EV’s are popular there too, as they are in Northampton, Manchester, Liverpool, Exeter (other places I am familiar with)
I can already guess the replies to this comment, so yes, no one drives 300 miles in one sitting without stopping, and even then, you can stop for 45 mins comfort break to charge back up to 240 miles.
Fast and Spurious said:
EmailAddress said:
wemorgan said:
Mafioso said:
Surely nobody in their right mind actually buys an EV? I assume most on the road are fleet vehicles or leased?
Congratulations for making the 1st post a negative postNow for a battery of silly replies.....
Glenn63 said:
Correct, and a normal used ICE car may get the odd fairly cheap to fix mechanical issue, an electric out of warranty may lead to a new battery multiple times the cost of the car. People who already have less money don’t want to take that risk.
Let's be honest, the average person's knowledge and experience of EV batteries is mostly from reading negative press from various media outlets.There is pushback from oil and gas companies and pushback from people who don't like change, the usual suspects in the media have latched onto this.
The probability that any one battery is going to fail prematurely is low, and conversely, there is little evidence to show that batteries degrade beyond single figure %s over a 'standard life'.
The standard life for the UK being 15 years or 125,000 miles.
If someone is concerned, then they just don't buy a second hand EV.
If they can't afford to buy a new EV, then they weren't ever going to buy a new ICE.
So the legislation doesn't affect them....
It's way too early to worry that it's going to be a problem for used buyers at the budget end, the same goes for the charging network.
Imagine if I said to you I refuse to ever own a diesel Land Rover because I'm worried that it's going to destroy an entire car park.
Would you say I'm over-reacting?
Glenn63 said:
Correct, and a normal used ICE car may get the odd fairly cheap to fix mechanical issue, an electric out of warranty may lead to a new battery multiple times the cost of the car. People who already have less money don’t want to take that risk.
Cheap to fix. Are you having a laugh. I've rebuilt quite a few engines and changed clutches mainly because getting it done professionally is never cheap.Changing batteries multiple times. Sorry but you're talking from your rear end.
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