RE: Driven: Ferrari 599 XX

[vintageracer01]

Shape Shifter said:

Gridl0k said:

You say elegant and graceful, I say it looks like an SD1... potato, potahto....

I think Daytonas look like hideous old trucks. There. I said it.

BTW, this is an old truck. Only for your understanding.




I agree, that Daytonas may drive like one compared to modern sports cars but looks? NO.

( I like your comment with the picture, however.)

[vintageracer01]

K50 DEL said:

vintageracer01 said:

What is it with Ferrari, for years I've been content in the fact that the 355 was the last good looking car they produced, then along came the California and now this...

If they're not careful I'm going to have to readjust my opinions..... that is simply stunning.

Simlpy stunning as THIS crap!?





or this



or this



or this



And pretty soon, Ferraris look like this:




Don't you think this would be a better way?

Edited by vintageracer01 on Wednesday 24th February 11:00

[Gridl0k]

Let's wait and see where they go with the GTO...

[vintageracer01]

Gridl0k said:

Let's wait and see where they go with the GTO...

Are you hopeful? Let's keep the fingers crossed!

I have my doubts, tbh, considering the latest design attempts.

[Dagnut]

I don't know, those tarted up ones look ste but the basic shape of the supra is a good one I think.

[PiB]

Then there's the criticism that it cannot be driven on the road that keeps popping up here.

Cars like this don't work on the road and the owners generally wouldn't want the attention.

Then there's the criticism of using a road model to create a track car like this.

Since when is that new. It's done all the time. If it's not like the ownership deal the Enzo Fxx is some of these 599's may see actual track competition.

It's all relative. One mans 599fxx is another mans 348 Competizione is another mans Ducati Monster.

10, 15 years from now I don't think their will be as much criticism about this car coming from here. I would like to see the engineers discuss the technology and design of the car more.

[jellison]

Nice car - but if you can't drive it on the road (any Arab buying one WILL DRIVE IT ON THE ROAD) it is a Joke.

So you have the fasterst car at a track day - it is meaningless if you can drive! And if you can, you'd want it for the road anyway!!!

1430kg - er great (even with 720bhp) a massive stepup on power to weight of the Footballer std edition but hardly pushing the envelope.

Don't get me wrong, I love it and but I would not go near it unless I could drive it on the road or race it (imagine rocking up at a Ferrari club race meeting in that - start a few laps down ).

[chelme]

M5jimmy said:

Certainly sounds fantastic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXfaVT03IJQ&fea...

Utterly stunning. Can trace that Ferrari sound all the way back to the LM250 V12 which was also fitted to the 275 GTB/C:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xfty8MSPtiY

If I saw one of these accelerate nearby, I'd simply fall apart - there is no match for the symphony that's emitted from the legendary Ferrari V12 IMO.

[vintageracer01]

Dagnut said:

I don't know, those tarted up ones look ste but the basic shape of the supra is a good one I think.

That's my point.

Why recent Ferraris look sh**e like tarted up "rice bowls"?

To leave no room for the Mansorys and Gemballas of this world, or what?




For the moment, Ferraris look like "x-box generation" look-at-me crap, inside and out.

Ferrari = no taste

This is a shame!

Most of the sportscar makers developed their style in an evolutionary way.

Lamborghini has a daring, original and inspirational (Bertone influenced) style.

Aston Martin has a 'grand', sophisticated and very resolved style.

Porsche has a crisp and sporty style. Well, for the 2-door sports cars, I mean!

Jaguar has a very clean and elegant style, even the latest models.

Lotus has a "light weight" and playful style.

Alfa Romeo is stylish and slightly fashionable.

The origin of all those cars is instantly recognizable even without the badge on.

But Ferrari is all over the place. No direction. Just "Fast 'n' Furious", IMO.

Don't misunderstand me, I like Ferrari as a brand, the history and technology.
But there is no passion in it anymore.
It is just shouty loud and rather embarassing!

Edited by vintageracer01 on Wednesday 24th February 01:32

[Dagnut]

vintageracer01 said:

Dagnut said:

I don't know, those tarted up ones look ste but the basic shape of the supra is a good one I think.

That's my point.

Why recent Ferraris look sh**e like tarted up "rice bowls"?

To leave no room for the Mansorys and Gemballas of this world, or what?




For the moment, Ferraris look like "x-box generation" look-at-me crap, inside and out.

Ferrari = no taste

This is a shame!

Most of the sportscar makers developed their style in an evolutionary way.

Lamborghini has a daring, original and inspirational (Bertone influenced) style.

Aston Martin has a 'grand', sophisticated and very resolved style.

Porsche has a crisp and sporty style. Well, for the 2-door sports cars, I mean!

Jaguar has a very clean and elegant style, even the latest models.

Lotus has a "light weight" and playful style.

Alfa Romeo is stylish and slightly fashionable.

The origin of all those cars is instantly recognizable even without the badge on.

But Ferrari is all over the place. No direction. Just "Fast 'n' Furious", IMO.

Don't misunderstand me, I like Ferrari as a brand, the history and technology.
But there is no passion in it anymore.
It is just shouty loud and rather embarassing!

Edited by vintageracer01 on Wednesday 24th February 01:32

Would agree with that, but I don't think styling is that relevant to car that will spend all its life on the track.

[Mr Dave]

PiB said:

Then there's the criticism that it cannot be driven on the road that keeps popping up here.

Generally the owners probably have plenty of road car Ferraris as well.

Its not going to be anyones only car, nor their only Ferrari.

The owners are going to drive it and have a really good time and I think it looks fantastic.

[K50 DEL]

vintageracer01 said:

Simply as stunning as this

<snip> a load of plastic enhanced chav chariots with shopping lists on the doors)</snip>


Don't you think this would be a better way?

<snip> Napolis' P4/5 </snip>

I think we're in 2 different leagues here to be honest, as a poster above mentions, I quite like the basic shape of the Supra, but all the "enhanced" cars leave me cold.
As for Jim's car, it is a stunning one-off, built without compromise and I love it (the wheels especially) but to compare either set of cars with a factory built Ferrari is a tad unfair.

I'm not sure if the 599 XX will work from all angles and in other colours, but in that picture it makes me go <wibble>

[Ruddmeister]

BanjoMaster said:

Makes me wonder if/hope this will prompt someone to make a GT1 599...

they are making the road going 599 GTO, details due any time soon

[vintageracer01]

K50 DEL said:

vintageracer01 said:

Simply as stunning as this

<snip> a load of plastic enhanced chav chariots with shopping lists on the doors)</snip>


Don't you think this would be a better way?

<snip> Napolis' P4/5 </snip>

I think we're in 2 different leagues here to be honest, as a poster above mentions, I quite like the basic shape of the Supra, but all the "enhanced" cars leave me cold.
As for Jim's car, it is a stunning one-off, built without compromise and I love it (the wheels especially) but to compare either set of cars with a factory built Ferrari is a tad unfair.

I'm not sure if the 599 XX will work from all angles and in other colours, but in that picture it makes me go <wibble>

Yes, we are in two different leagues here. Unfortunately! And that is the problem I try to point out.

Why Ferraris look like "a load of plastic enhanced chav chariots" for the last 15 years or since the 512 testarossa to be more precise?

Sure, the "Napolis" P4/5 (for the uninformed that is Jim Glickenhaus)is a car of a different league. But NOT the design approach!

I am asking why Ferrari is not using this kind or developing a similar kind of FORM LANGUAGE ???

Ferrari does not have any form language. They just wobble curves around and wonder how they treat the surfaces in between.

There is nothing distinctive.

Why Ferrari makes car design that one confuses their products with Japanese drift mobiles?



Why Ferraris cannot be BEAUTIFUL AS this P4/5 ???

Ferraris used to be very beautiful long time ago!

Aston Martins, Jaguars, Lamborghinis, the 2-door Porsches, the Lotuses and Alfas are beautifully designed up to today.
Only Ferrari fails notoriously bad again and again.

And there is no excuse that for a car for the track it does not matter.

If one spents 200.000 pounds or more why one has to put up with big, clunky and unresolved design.

Only because they are 'Ferrari' they get away with it.
(Almost) Everybody is falling for the 'prancing horse' and the technology and the 'bling' around it.

This appears utmost bizzar to me.

If Aston Martin or Lamborghini (just to name some of the former problem childs) would have come up with designs like Ferrari they would be dead by now!!!

Only because they carefully crafted a DB7 and DB9 or a Murcielago and Gallardo they saved the day.

It seems to me Ferrari buyers are the kind of customer group who do not care about design as long as everybody else sees and hears 'I am rich and you are not'.
From this perspective, beauty and elegance is not an issue and Ferraris will stay ugly or average at best.

I am an idealist in that respect: I hope Ferraris will be beautiful again. One day.

Edited by vintageracer01 on Wednesday 24th February 12:08

[Gridl0k]

I keep needing to point this out, but the P4/5 looks appalling to me. I really, genuinely can't see why so many people are so in love with it.

It's got a couple of ship's funnels poking out the back ffs, and reminds me of the car the Pink Panther arrives in at the start of his show.

[Dagnut]

vintageracer01 said:

K50 DEL said:

vintageracer01 said:

Simply as stunning as this

<snip> a load of plastic enhanced chav chariots with shopping lists on the doors)</snip>


Don't you think this would be a better way?

<snip> Napolis' P4/5 </snip>

I think we're in 2 different leagues here to be honest, as a poster above mentions, I quite like the basic shape of the Supra, but all the "enhanced" cars leave me cold.
As for Jim's car, it is a stunning one-off, built without compromise and I love it (the wheels especially) but to compare either set of cars with a factory built Ferrari is a tad unfair.

I'm not sure if the 599 XX will work from all angles and in other colours, but in that picture it makes me go <wibble>

Yes, we are in two different leagues here. Unfortunately! And that is the problem I try to point out.

Why Ferraris look like "a load of plastic enhanced chav chariots" for the last 15 years or since the 512 testarossa to be more precise?

Sure, the "Napolis" P4/5 (for the uninformed that is Jim Glickenhaus)is a car of a different league. But NOT the design approach!

I am asking why Ferrari is not using this kind or developing a similar kind of FORM LANGUAGE ???

Ferrari does not have any form language. They just wobble curves around and wonder how they treat the surfaces in between.

There is nothing distinctive.

Why Ferrari makes car design that one confuses their products with Japanese drift mobiles?



Why Ferraris cannot be BEAUTIFUL AS this P4/5 ???

Ferraris used to be very beautiful long time ago!

Aston Martins, Jaguars, Lamborghinis, the 2-door Porsches, the Lotuses and Alfas are beautifully designed up to today.
Only Ferrari fails notoriously bad again and again.

And there is no excuse that for a car for the track it does not matter.

If one spents 200.000 pounds or more why one has to put up with big, clunky and unresolved design.

Only because they are 'Ferrari' they get away with it.
(Almost) Everybody is falling for the 'prancing horse' and the technology and the 'bling' around it.

This appears utmost bizzar to me.

If Aston Martin or Lamborghini (just to name some of the former problem childs) would have come up with designs like Ferrari they would be dead by now!!!

Only because they carefully crafted a DB7 and DB9 or a Murcielago and Gallardo they saved the day.

It seems to me Ferrari buyers are the kind of customer group who do not care about design as long as everybody else sees and hears 'I am rich and you are not'.
From this perspective, beauty and elegance is not an issue and Ferraris will stay ugly or average at best.

I am an idealist in that respect: I hope Ferraris will be beautiful again. One day.

Edited by vintageracer01 on Wednesday 24th February 12:08

Firstly that p45 looks sh!te to me...terrible..and looks are subjective...a lot of people think the 458 is beautiful..

[Gridl0k]

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1520570.htm

On the other hand, some Ferraris are truly gorgeous for what they are. If I were in the market for a V12 GT...

[Gridl0k]

I'd take a Prodrive-tweaked 575M in a split second, too. And a 550.

Never in Resale Red though - maybe Miami.

[vintageracer01]

Papa Hotel said:

I've never wanted anything so much in my life.

Poor soul.

You must be joking?

Edited by vintageracer01 on Wednesday 24th February 21:37

[vintageracer01]

Gridl0k said:

I keep needing to point this out, but the P4/5 looks appalling to me. I really, genuinely can't see why so many people are so in love with it.

(pricy) It's got a couple of ship's funnels poking out the back ffs, and reminds me of the car the Pink Panther arrives in at the start of his show.

What ever you think of the P4/5, it is not my argument.

I just took it as an example of good proportions, balance and line work. And it reflects Ferrari's heritage and leads it into a future perspective. There is no point to get hung up over details about exhaust pipes.

Again, this is an example of a very different design approach than all the other recent Ferrari cars.
(And there is not much else around that is different.)

I think Ferrari needs a new and different design approach to be remembered for nice cars one day. A 308 has barely become a real classic, although it is nice but too mainstream. A Stratos or a Countach or a AM V8 Vantage IS a (pricey) real classic! Whether you like the style or not is not the question here.

I can imagine a Gallardo or a DB9 is becoming a very sought after classic!

I am not sure about a 360, a 456M or a 499. In 30+ years time, those will be seen as vulgar plastic blobs, I am afraid. Do you honestly think, a 360 will make you dream in 30 years time as many old Ferraris let us do today (Testarossa racers from the 50's, GTO, SWB, California Spider, 275, 330 GTC, 246 Dino, Daytona, just to name a few).

My argument is Ferrari has no distinctive FORM LANGUAGE anymore.
And that current Ferraris are pricey - BUT NOT beautiful!
While the competition mostly is not ONLY pricey !!!

(Technologically they are all kind of great. That is not the issue.)


But gladly, I can see from comments I am not entirely alone here.

There seem to be some people who are not blinded by red paint.

I really would like to see true 'DREAM' Ferraris again.

Some that are and will be icons in its own right.

- SOME THAT LAST FOREVER !!! -

Edited by vintageracer01 on Thursday 25th February 01:59