End of petrol and hybrid
Discussion
Sam.M said:
MrOrange said:
sensible things
Look bub, this is PH, we'll have none of your even handed Drive around an average housing estate in the north east (and elsewhere too I’m sure) and I think you’ll find £30k brand new cars are in a vast minority.
Nobody has said the new car buyers will struggle. It’s the low to average wage families who usually buy a sub £5k used car who’ll be hit.
By the time an EV is worth £5k on the used market, the battery will be shot.
Who much is a new battery again? Oh right.
RobDickinson said:
xjay1337 said:
Typical elitist response 
yeah f
k me and my evidence led change over time, I mean what the fk does science think its doing proving things like climate change and major health issues% of EV sales and the energy to run a house being just two of them.
You do seem to protest a bit too much and then paint ICE car owners out to be murderers with their emissions if they still don’t agree.
Funny to watch though, although frightening in equal measure.
marky911 said:
More like this is P’heads where everyone buys new cars and thinks £30k is a drop in the ocean.
Drive around an average housing estate in the north east (and elsewhere too I’m sure) and I think you’ll find £30k brand new cars are in a vast minority.
Nobody has said the new car buyers will struggle. It’s the low to average wage families who usually buy a sub £5k used car who’ll be hit.
By the time an EV is worth £5k on the used market, the battery will be shot.
Who much is a new battery again? Oh right.
Nissan Leaf at about £5k, low miles and only lost 2 bars on the battery. That’s hardly shagged. Fuel cost could be as low 2p a mile, leaving lots of spare coinage for extra B&H and White Lightning.Drive around an average housing estate in the north east (and elsewhere too I’m sure) and I think you’ll find £30k brand new cars are in a vast minority.
Nobody has said the new car buyers will struggle. It’s the low to average wage families who usually buy a sub £5k used car who’ll be hit.
By the time an EV is worth £5k on the used market, the battery will be shot.
Who much is a new battery again? Oh right.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Edited by MrOrange on Thursday 13th February 23:36
I can only see a single example on EBay under £7k (well £6995) and it’s £5400.
I don’t wish to move the goalposts but when I said sub £5k I meant £5k absolute max. I was actually thinking £2k-£3k. Eg your average 10 year old hatchbacks and saloons, which are what fill most average housing estates in the UK.
I’m thinking about what I’d class as “hard up” families. Parents working but not loads of cash. Just need a cheap old car to get them around.
I know the EV extremists solution though. Those families need to just walk, get the bus or move closer to where they work.
I always feel I need to keep saying this. I’m not against EV at all for a daily car. I’m just bringing up some of the aspects that will be massively affected.
I don’t wish to move the goalposts but when I said sub £5k I meant £5k absolute max. I was actually thinking £2k-£3k. Eg your average 10 year old hatchbacks and saloons, which are what fill most average housing estates in the UK.
I’m thinking about what I’d class as “hard up” families. Parents working but not loads of cash. Just need a cheap old car to get them around.
I know the EV extremists solution though. Those families need to just walk, get the bus or move closer to where they work.
I always feel I need to keep saying this. I’m not against EV at all for a daily car. I’m just bringing up some of the aspects that will be massively affected.
otolith said:
Have another go when you’ve thought it through.
I knew my time would come as he’s responded to every single poster that doesn’t share his point of view. I wonder if he has a job as he spends an awful lot of time on EV threads.
>Hi otolith, erm, matey, bud, amigo, I’ll go and have a think about that especially for you since you posted a hilarious gif of someone thinking about something.
You can get them for about £5k on AT. But, zero RFL, almost no servicing, and eff all fuel cost all adds up to a tidy saving, maybe as much as £2k less per year so soon pays back the slightly higher purchase price- and might get you a 6-8 year old car rather than a moon-mileage Focus with a haircut or two.
EVs are not for everyone, I get that, but they are heading that way pretty quickly.
EVs are not for everyone, I get that, but they are heading that way pretty quickly.
Sorry I’m possibly being dumb but I don’t get the worthless comment?
My point was about hard up families needing a £2k/£3k car and not being able to afford an EV. There are very few £5k EVs out there. Certainly not enough if it was law, hence every hard up family needed one.
But this is P’heads EV thread so sod those scruffbags they’ll just have to move house nearer to where they need to be.
My point was about hard up families needing a £2k/£3k car and not being able to afford an EV. There are very few £5k EVs out there. Certainly not enough if it was law, hence every hard up family needed one.
But this is P’heads EV thread so sod those scruffbags they’ll just have to move house nearer to where they need to be.
If the battery is knackered and the car is beyond economic repair, it’s not worth 5k. It’s an ornament, or scrap.
They batteries will degrade - but gradually, by losing range. They’ll be useful so long as someone can make use of a car with that level of range remaining, but their value will decrease.
Seems to me that it will be an easier decline to manage than a car which is just going to suffer a terminal engine failure some day.
They batteries will degrade - but gradually, by losing range. They’ll be useful so long as someone can make use of a car with that level of range remaining, but their value will decrease.
Seems to me that it will be an easier decline to manage than a car which is just going to suffer a terminal engine failure some day.
Also, this bit;
“ My point was about hard up families needing a £2k/£3k car and not being able to afford an EV. There are very few £5k EVs out there. Certainly not enough if it was law, hence every hard up family needed one. ” - it’s not going to be law, the proposal is no new ICEs, they’ll have used ICEs until the EVs have trickled down the used market. to replace them.
“ My point was about hard up families needing a £2k/£3k car and not being able to afford an EV. There are very few £5k EVs out there. Certainly not enough if it was law, hence every hard up family needed one. ” - it’s not going to be law, the proposal is no new ICEs, they’ll have used ICEs until the EVs have trickled down the used market. to replace them.
marky911 said:
There are very few £5k EVs out there. Certainly not enough if it was law, hence every hard up family needed one.
The “law” (it’s not been passed yet), applies only to NEW cars, and is FIFTEEN years away. I would expect there will be lots and lots of cheap early gen EV cars available by then. Or they can buy a second hand ICE snotter.Modern Euro6 ICE cars are probably out of range of the lower demographics today so they are likely to find their motoring ever more restricted over the next 5 years anyway.
Or they move to a rental model, like they use for iPhones and Sky.
marky911 said:
My point was about hard up families needing a £2k/£3k car and not being able to afford an EV. There are very few £5k EVs out there. Certainly not enough if it was law, hence every hard up family needed one.
There will be loads of £2/3k electric cars when far more people are buying them to begin with, and they're getting cheaper.marky911 said:
Sorry I’m possibly being dumb but I don’t get the worthless comment?
My point was about hard up families needing a £2k/£3k car and not being able to afford an EV. There are very few £5k EVs out there. Certainly not enough if it was law, hence every hard up family needed one.
But this is P’heads EV thread so sod those scruffbags they’ll just have to move house nearer to where they need to be.
There might be more used EV by 2035. And it won’t be law, you will still be able to buy a used ICE.My point was about hard up families needing a £2k/£3k car and not being able to afford an EV. There are very few £5k EVs out there. Certainly not enough if it was law, hence every hard up family needed one.
But this is P’heads EV thread so sod those scruffbags they’ll just have to move house nearer to where they need to be.
The depreciation curve for EV may be different for sure (lower running costs, body work (rust) likely to be the main aging issue rather than mechanics)
Hmm, yes and no.
I agree about the gradual decline in battery life but regards the sudden terminal failure of the petrol cars engine, the key words you used there were “some day”.
An EV that falls to an affordable price level because it’s already limited range is now even more limited, isn’t really solving the problem for those folk struggling to afford one.
Certainly not compared to their old £2k Nissan Note that’ll take them anywhere.
The petrol car could last 20 years, with no range limitations.
The EV with an already diminished range is only going to get gradually worse. I don’t know over what time scale as I’m no EV expert, but if they’re 5 year old with 20% missing then it doesn’t bode well for the next 10 years.
It all depends on usage obviously but there’s no denying at the current point in time and for the foreseeable in my view, EVs remain out of the reach for many many people in our country.
Above post was a reply to Otolith’s.
I agree about the gradual decline in battery life but regards the sudden terminal failure of the petrol cars engine, the key words you used there were “some day”.
An EV that falls to an affordable price level because it’s already limited range is now even more limited, isn’t really solving the problem for those folk struggling to afford one.
Certainly not compared to their old £2k Nissan Note that’ll take them anywhere.
The petrol car could last 20 years, with no range limitations.
The EV with an already diminished range is only going to get gradually worse. I don’t know over what time scale as I’m no EV expert, but if they’re 5 year old with 20% missing then it doesn’t bode well for the next 10 years.
It all depends on usage obviously but there’s no denying at the current point in time and for the foreseeable in my view, EVs remain out of the reach for many many people in our country.
Above post was a reply to Otolith’s.
marky911 said:
The EV with an already diminished range is only going to get gradually worse. I don’t know over what time scale as I’m no EV expert, but if they’re 5 year old with 20% missing then it doesn’t bode well for the next 10 years.
Degradation is an issue, agreed, but better charge controllers are doing a better job and 150-200k miles would likely be the norm before a noticeable drop in range. That could easily be a 20 year life, even for today’s EVs. The future for usable, cheap-to-run, second hand EVs is actually very bright and should offer a good alternative to costlier, less-refined ICE vehicles IMHO.
Yeah fair enough if they can improve battery life to say 90% for 15/20 years then the cars should become more of a worthwhile purchase as they get older.
As said by others, that coupled with more used cars filtering down as a result of more new cars, should open them up to your average Joe.
Still a way off though, but so is the sales ban so fair enough.
As said by others, that coupled with more used cars filtering down as a result of more new cars, should open them up to your average Joe.
Still a way off though, but so is the sales ban so fair enough.
RobDickinson said:
20 year ice cars in no mechanical troubles ever shocker, news on piston heads...
Nobody said that Rob, but obviously your internal filter flagged it up as “Alarm bells” time again.Currently we are guaranteed that the batteries in an EV, hence the range, WILL deteriorate and probably way before the point a “shed” motorist will come into ownership of it.
Buy an ICE car carefully and maintain it and we are definitely not guaranteed a failure to take it off the road. Could happen but probably won’t.
My 22 year old Volvo is going just fine, about to click over 204k miles this week.
It cost me £700 5 years ago at 154k. I’ve changed tyres, disks and pads in that time plus it’s gets the oil I drop out of my 911 every year.
An EV will have saved me money on fuel and road tax, but will have cost a lot more than £700 to purchase.
This is why I brought up the point about shed motoring for folk who either can’t afford an EV or don’t want to spend a lot on boring everyday transport.
So please stop getting your knickers in a twist whenever someone questions any aspect of EV ownership.
Folk ask questions or make a point to learn or hear the flip side.
A query isn’t a personal attack. Try and distinguish between the two.
Edited by marky911 on Friday 14th February 01:25
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