ULEZ charge in 2021
Discussion
Guvernator said:
The area I live in has over the last several years had cycle lanes put in on most of the major roads at god knows how much expense which is very admirable indeed, except hardly anyone uses them. They are empty, in one 20min driving stint I counted the grand total of two bicycles using them. So the adage of build it and they will come just isn't true, we just aren't a cycling nation and I'm not sure if we ever will be.
So not only have the councils spent a lot of money on something that isn't being used, they've increased congestion by reducing the width of the roads to make way for empty cycle lanes. Add in all the various other extra pinch points, extended islands, traffic calming measures humps and other road addenda that seems to be all the rage these days and traffic flow has been drastically reduced, the consequence of which is increased pollution.
It really does make me wonder what the thinking is behind all this, the measures they are implementing certainly aren't reducing pollution, quite the opposite so what is the actual agenda here?
I think we’ve all seen congestion increase where unused cycle lanes have been installed. It’s been an enormous expense to just favour a few white collar workers. A city of cyclists is a lovely dream and there are arguably cities in the U.K. where it could work but London isn’t one of them. It’s just created congestion and anger. So not only have the councils spent a lot of money on something that isn't being used, they've increased congestion by reducing the width of the roads to make way for empty cycle lanes. Add in all the various other extra pinch points, extended islands, traffic calming measures humps and other road addenda that seems to be all the rage these days and traffic flow has been drastically reduced, the consequence of which is increased pollution.
It really does make me wonder what the thinking is behind all this, the measures they are implementing certainly aren't reducing pollution, quite the opposite so what is the actual agenda here?
NomduJour said:
C70R, why do you think the mayor has decided to go after private car owners, rather than focusing his attentions on, say, public transport and gas boilers (changes to both of which could make a big difference to pollution levels)?
Forgetting gas boilers for a moment, because I almost agree with you. What makes you think that there's no plan for buses? Or taxis? A quick Google would explain that.On the subject of gas boilers, you're undoubtedly aware of the new regulations which came into play Europe-wide in September, right? https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/what-to-expect-with-...
NomduJour said:
Killboy said:
Why? Doesn't sound like this is doing Kahn any favors
Your average right-thinking metro-liberal will lap up this gesture-politics anti-car rhetoric like it’s an oat milk flat white. But that doesn't seem to stop people from making this a part of their personal crusade against him. FWIW I'm no particular fan of his, nor have I ever voted Labour - this is just a good, sensible policy, which has been the lovechild of London leaders from both sides for almost a decade.
j_4m said:
Killboy said:
All of these problems will be solved when self driving vehicles are mainstream. 
I think if self-driving cars are ever given preferential legislation I'm going to go full Kaczysnki. 
The cycle lanes have completely crippled the main East/West route along Embankment and Lower/Upper Thames Street - it’s awful even on a Sunday, and virtually impassable midweek.
Re buses and cabs - this is TfL’s (and the mayor’s) remit. Why can fifteen-year-old(!) cabs continue to be licensed when they spend all day, every day pumping out pollution in the centre of town? Why no GTL or DME fuelled buses in anticipation of when zero emissions technology is viable? Why are there still regular empty bus jams across town?
Gas boilers - yes, there’s new legislation but existing ones are generally only changed when they break. Why no boiler scrappage scheme? Why no incentives to electrically heat new developments?
So many things that could easily be done to far greater effect and hugely less impact.
Re buses and cabs - this is TfL’s (and the mayor’s) remit. Why can fifteen-year-old(!) cabs continue to be licensed when they spend all day, every day pumping out pollution in the centre of town? Why no GTL or DME fuelled buses in anticipation of when zero emissions technology is viable? Why are there still regular empty bus jams across town?
Gas boilers - yes, there’s new legislation but existing ones are generally only changed when they break. Why no boiler scrappage scheme? Why no incentives to electrically heat new developments?
So many things that could easily be done to far greater effect and hugely less impact.
C70R said:
Only on PH, the home of excessive opinions, it seems.
I know a lot of people who live and drive in Z1-3, and I doubt that cycle lanes would even be in the top 10 things that annoy them.
Indeed. Compared to badly phased lights, Uber drivers, roadworks, Uber drivers, invincible pedestrians, drivers who have apparently never passed a UK test (so Uber drivers), people who think double yellows are parking zones, people who think that the 'left only' lane is really just an 'ahead only' lane in disguise...I know a lot of people who live and drive in Z1-3, and I doubt that cycle lanes would even be in the top 10 things that annoy them.
Cyclists and cycle lanes appear quite low on the list, mostly it's other drivers who irritate me.
Guvernator said:
The area I live in has over the last several years had cycle lanes put in on most of the major roads at god knows how much expense which is very admirable indeed, except hardly anyone uses them. They are empty, in one 20min driving stint I counted the grand total of two bicycles using them. So the adage of build it and they will come just isn't true, we just aren't a cycling nation and I'm not sure if we ever will be.
So not only have the councils spent a lot of money on something that isn't being used, they've increased congestion by reducing the width of the roads to make way for empty cycle lanes. Add in all the various other extra pinch points, extended islands, traffic calming measures humps and other road addenda that seems to be all the rage these days and traffic flow has been drastically reduced, the consequence of which is increased pollution.
It really does make me wonder what the thinking is behind all this, the measures they are implementing certainly aren't reducing pollution, quite the opposite so what is the actual agenda here?
Do the cycle lanes join up to anything? Here in Brum we have some excellent bits, but they join up to nothing, you have to take your life in your to get to and from so naturally they’re underused. So not only have the councils spent a lot of money on something that isn't being used, they've increased congestion by reducing the width of the roads to make way for empty cycle lanes. Add in all the various other extra pinch points, extended islands, traffic calming measures humps and other road addenda that seems to be all the rage these days and traffic flow has been drastically reduced, the consequence of which is increased pollution.
It really does make me wonder what the thinking is behind all this, the measures they are implementing certainly aren't reducing pollution, quite the opposite so what is the actual agenda here?
The pavements in Brum are also greatly under used. On my commute in and out I pass about 10 miles of empty pavements on both sides of the road. I dare say they could rip and give us four lanes of cars, but there’s only one or two lanes through the towns en route so I don’t think the traffic will flow any quicker. There must be millions of miles of empty pavements all over the country but they’re used occasionally so they’re fine by me.
Killboy said:
Its great on a bicycle
Unfortunately bicycles aren’t much use for moving more than one sweaty person, or as ambulances, fire engines or delivery vehicles. You know, exactly the sort of things a large city actually needs (rather than middle-aged Strava heroes). The cycle lanes are always empty out of commuting times.
NomduJour said:
Killboy said:
Its great on a bicycle
Unfortunately bicycles aren’t much use for moving more than one sweaty person, or as ambulances, fire engines or delivery vehicles. You know, exactly the sort of things a large city actually needs (rather than middle-aged Strava heroes). The cycle lanes are always empty out of commuting times.
https://www.bikebiz.com/landscape/traffic-in-the-c...
"Traffic analysts working for the City of London Corporation – which has been governing London for 800 years – also say that pedestrians and cyclists have comparatively little space dedicated to them, but between them they account for the most people moved, especially during the morning peak.
One of the key takeaways from the report is that motor vehicles in London may get the lion's share of road space – and funding – but it's actually non-motorised forms of transport which keep the city moving.
Pavements – which often make up less than 25 percent of total street space – move the majority of people travelling on City streets," says the report. Motor vehicles, excluding buses, use 53 percent of the road space to move under 25 percent of the people making journeys in London's Square Mile. Buses carry a similar number of people, but use just 9 percent of the road space."
Killboy said:
All of these problems will be solved when self driving vehicles are mainstream.
Not that they will ever work in London. I’m yet to meet a Londoner who would stop and wait for a ZX81 on wheels when it has been programmed to stop and wait for us. The real benefit of self driving cars is that we will no longer have to wait to cross the road but will be free to walk where we want, whenever we want. As will cyclists and anyone who isn’t in a mode of transport that can be identified electronically via a camera.
j_4m said:
C70R said:
Only on PH, the home of excessive opinions, it seems.
I know a lot of people who live and drive in Z1-3, and I doubt that cycle lanes would even be in the top 10 things that annoy them.
Indeed. Compared to badly phased lights, Uber drivers, roadworks, Uber drivers, invincible pedestrians, drivers who have apparently never passed a UK test (so Uber drivers), people who think double yellows are parking zones, people who think that the 'left only' lane is really just an 'ahead only' lane in disguise...I know a lot of people who live and drive in Z1-3, and I doubt that cycle lanes would even be in the top 10 things that annoy them.
Cyclists and cycle lanes appear quite low on the list, mostly it's other drivers who irritate me.
I don't understand how some people can seem to generate such ludicrously strong opinions about it.
NomduJour said:
Killboy said:
Its great on a bicycle
Unfortunately bicycles aren’t much use for moving more than one sweaty person, or as ambulances, fire engines or delivery vehicles. You know, exactly the sort of things a large city actually needs (rather than middle-aged Strava heroes). C70R said:
That works out just fine. Once all of those selfishly single-crewed cars in Central London are replaced by bicycles, then there will be lots of space for "ambulances, fire engines or delivery vehicles".
Complete nonsense, I’m afraid - just look at one of the many clips of emergency vehicles stuck alongside empty bike lanes - there are virtually no private cars there. Must try harder. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff