RE: SOTW: Alfa Romeo 156 Sportwagon
Discussion
Yet again, 'icepop', you're showing your lack of real experience of the cars.
The TSpark heads weren't pointless - they clean up emissions and help burn the fuel more effectively. And they sound much better than most 4-pots because Alfa have engineers whose job it is to tune the inlet and exhaust systems for sound.
And I suspect you've never driven the V6 to write it off like you have - and just look at it. Has there ever been a better looking engine fitted to an affordable car?
I find it irritating when people knock Alfas whilst ignoring the multitude of issues from other 'premium' brands.
VW / Audi have had issues with suspension bushes (as have Ford, actually - the Mondeo and Focus eat through them, too), then there's the VW / Audi coil pack issues, 2.0TDI engines which lunch their turbos and DMFs (I've heard of whole engines and boxes being replaced under warranty), Mercedes with their E-class that rotted as quickly as a 1980s Alfa / Fiat, and BMW with the Nikasil affected 6-pots, or their diesel swirl flap ingestion.
The TSpark heads weren't pointless - they clean up emissions and help burn the fuel more effectively. And they sound much better than most 4-pots because Alfa have engineers whose job it is to tune the inlet and exhaust systems for sound.
And I suspect you've never driven the V6 to write it off like you have - and just look at it. Has there ever been a better looking engine fitted to an affordable car?
I find it irritating when people knock Alfas whilst ignoring the multitude of issues from other 'premium' brands.
VW / Audi have had issues with suspension bushes (as have Ford, actually - the Mondeo and Focus eat through them, too), then there's the VW / Audi coil pack issues, 2.0TDI engines which lunch their turbos and DMFs (I've heard of whole engines and boxes being replaced under warranty), Mercedes with their E-class that rotted as quickly as a 1980s Alfa / Fiat, and BMW with the Nikasil affected 6-pots, or their diesel swirl flap ingestion.
Johnboy Mac said:
Two points.
1.The engine is a Fiat design not an Alfa. Not that important at the end of the day as they are the same company.
2.No E Class Merc rotted like an 80's Alfa.
1. The block may be, but the head was unique - and in 2.0 form looked nothing like anything Fiat fitted to their cars.1.The engine is a Fiat design not an Alfa. Not that important at the end of the day as they are the same company.
2.No E Class Merc rotted like an 80's Alfa.
2. Oh yes they did - the W210 was shocking, and not just the visible bits. It wasn't unknown for them to fail their first MOT on underbody corrosion.
VeeFour said:
Johnboy Mac said:
Two points.
1.The engine is a Fiat design not an Alfa. Not that important at the end of the day as they are the same company.
2.No E Class Merc rotted like an 80's Alfa.
1. The block may be, but the head was unique - and in 2.0 form looked nothing like anything Fiat fitted to their cars.1.The engine is a Fiat design not an Alfa. Not that important at the end of the day as they are the same company.
2.No E Class Merc rotted like an 80's Alfa.
2. Oh yes they did - the W210 was shocking, and not just the visible bits. It wasn't unknown for them to fail their first MOT on underbody corrosion.
As for comparing an 80's Fiat/Alfa's to a W210 or a W202 for rust your taking the p1ss, really.
Johnboy Mac said:
So, it's based on a Fiat engine - as I said no big deal, as they're the same comapny.
As for comparing an 80's Fiat/Alfa's to a W210 or a W202 for rust your taking the p1ss, really.
The block is probably the least most defining part of an engine, though - it's not what gives an engine its character and feel. So to claim it as 'just a Fiat engine' is very misguided.As for comparing an 80's Fiat/Alfa's to a W210 or a W202 for rust your taking the p1ss, really.
And you may want to google for W210 rust...
I've a mid 80s GTV in my lockup with less rust issues than that!
VeeFour said:
So to claim it as 'just a Fiat engine' is very misguided.
And you may want to google for W210 rust...
Never mentioned the word 'just' in any context. Also there's no need to twist my comments, but if makes you feel better by all means go ahead.And you may want to google for W210 rust...
Another point too, there's no need for me to Google anything on W210's or W202's as I have owned several of both.
Rust on them? Yes, all cosmetic but not in the league of 80's Fiat or Alfa's.
Do yourself a favour and make balanced points and comments and this thread might actually be constructive and enlighting.
Over and Out.
Mr E said:
Our 156 has only lunched an engine and most of the suspension so far.
Oh, and the rear wiper has packed up.
My 147 had the rear wiper problem. The fix is dead easy. Just turn the rear wiper on from the stalk, and wrench it back down to its usual position. It should mysteriously start working again. Water manages to leak into the shaft of the motor, it starts to rust and eventually seizes.Oh, and the rear wiper has packed up.
robsco said:
My 147 had the rear wiper problem. The fix is dead easy. Just turn the rear wiper on from the stalk, and wrench it back down to its usual position. It should mysteriously start working again. Water manages to leak into the shaft of the motor, it starts to rust and eventually seizes.
I think its rather more buggered than that. But cheers. 
(it's been in bits and wrenched about to no avail)
VeeFour said:
and BMW with the Nikasil affected 6-pots, or their diesel swirl flap ingestion.
If our last fleet of manual 520d s at work is anything to go by, BMWs previous mechanical issues were trivial in comparison.Four out of the ten popped their turbos between 60,000 and 80,000 miles. One is on its third gearbox, two of the others are on their second. Loads of electrical faults as well, plus DMF/clutch problems. Our fleet manager despises the things, as do a worrying number of their keepers. The dealers also seem to struggle to quickly identify and fix problems.
Between the warranty, and the full maintenance leases, none of this has cost anything aside from time / inconvenience, but compared to the traditional, bulletproof BMWs of old, these really are shocking.
It takes a long time for a traditionally reliable brand to be perceived differently, just as it takes years for a traditionally unreliable brand to shake that image too. In reality, the performance of the product almost doesn't matter in comparison to a brand's reputation. Things may start to change after a generation or two of products, but really, reputations stick, whether good or bad.
Limpet said:
If our last fleet of manual 520d s at work is anything to go by, BMWs previous mechanical issues were trivial in comparison
Many of those problems are, unfortunately, quite common to modern, refined, high performance, emissions friendly diesels. Turbos need looking after.
I'm not sure about the gearbox issues though.
Mr E said:
robsco said:
What I'd suggest on that basis then... is that its f
ked. 
I think I'm with you on this one. When I have time and can work out how to get into the boot plastics (another thread which you've already helped me on), one from a scrappy will be installed.ked. icepop said:
Yep, OK to look at.
Noise ??? in what way, sterile 4 pots, do they still incorporate that ridiculous retro biased twin spark plug idea, absolutley no mechanical advantage gained, other that a nod to a previously, more engineeringly challanged age.
V6, sounds good, as does VW's, and Fords/Volvos 5 pots.
Driving experience.......give us a break, from a std bread and butter Eurobox.
As said many times, Alfas stopped being special around the mid 60's, they carry a lovely badge to remind of what they were.
And please don't queue the fella, V something or other, who now comes to remind me of all the touring car wins they've had, as totally irrelevant examples of the mark, prepared as track and race cars only, and bearing no resemblance to the road cars.
You really have no idea, the 4 pot TS is anything but sterile, loves to be revved and makes a fantastic noise for a 4 pot.Noise ??? in what way, sterile 4 pots, do they still incorporate that ridiculous retro biased twin spark plug idea, absolutley no mechanical advantage gained, other that a nod to a previously, more engineeringly challanged age.
V6, sounds good, as does VW's, and Fords/Volvos 5 pots.
Driving experience.......give us a break, from a std bread and butter Eurobox.
As said many times, Alfas stopped being special around the mid 60's, they carry a lovely badge to remind of what they were.
And please don't queue the fella, V something or other, who now comes to remind me of all the touring car wins they've had, as totally irrelevant examples of the mark, prepared as track and race cars only, and bearing no resemblance to the road cars.
Handling - I, many owners and many many journalists through it was great, but you can of course have your own judgement. I was actually a BMW fanboy until I drove an E46 (323/325 and actually owned a 330i) and E36 (328/318), competent cars but lacking fun and unforgivable slow steering.
The BMW was the most unreliable car I have ever owned, some odd metal clip in the lock broke, window regulator failed, engine generating plumes of smoke due to a failed rocker gasket, temperamental heater controls, hit some unit with a hammer and it kicked back into life, main lights lose their clarity so had to replace the covers, cheap circuitry in the rear indicator units that leads to them burning out every 7 years or so, the soft touch plastics peel. All of which were common problems for the model, just glad I didnt have the subframe problems.
Yep, I went from an Alfa daily to BMW daily and will confirm all that. My BMW (E46) is just hopeless and does nothing but break. It could teach the Alfa a lesson or two in fuel effiency though, despite being very much more powerful and heavier (3.0 vs 2.5 litre na petrol lumps). I would also much rather be in an accident in my BMW then the Alfa too, if worse comes to worse!
However, claiming that the Alfa has rubbish steering or a sterile 4 pot compared to others is just proving you haven't driven much else. The twincam twin spark is such a hoot to rev, as the powerband changes higher up. Also, did someone also compare the Alfa V6 to the Volvo 5 pot earlier??? You must be mad.
However, claiming that the Alfa has rubbish steering or a sterile 4 pot compared to others is just proving you haven't driven much else. The twincam twin spark is such a hoot to rev, as the powerband changes higher up. Also, did someone also compare the Alfa V6 to the Volvo 5 pot earlier??? You must be mad.
Edited by LotusAlfaV6bloke on Tuesday 31st May 20:07
LotusAlfaV6bloke said:
Yep, I went from an Alfa daily to BMW daily and will confirm all that. My BMW (E46) is just hopeless and does nothing but break. It could teach the Alfa a lesson or two in fuel effiency though, despite being very much more powerful and heavier (3.0 vs 2.5 litre na petrol lumps). I would also much rather be in an accident in my BMW then the Alfa too, if worse comes to worse!
However, claiming that the Alfa has rubbish steering or a sterile 4 pot compared to others is just proving you haven't driven much else. The twincam twin spark is such a hoot to rev, as the powerband changes higher up. Also, did someone also compare the Alfa V6 to the Volvo 5 pot earlier??? You must be mad.
Agree about the Alfa fuel economy, my Brera 2.2 was doing around 21mpg average around town and 27mpg average on the motorway. Although the 330i Sport Auto did seriously drink fuel, found my V6 to be about the same MPG as my 2.0 JTS if not being pushed (not often However, claiming that the Alfa has rubbish steering or a sterile 4 pot compared to others is just proving you haven't driven much else. The twincam twin spark is such a hoot to rev, as the powerband changes higher up. Also, did someone also compare the Alfa V6 to the Volvo 5 pot earlier??? You must be mad.
Edited by LotusAlfaV6bloke on Tuesday 31st May 20:07
). The 1.9/2.4 JTD are great, especially the latter but whilst they are economic, they don't touch the 1.9 TDI for economy as they were about 10mpg off but personally found the Alfa units more fun. hora said:
My next is going to be an Alfa. fk it. Just need to track a decent one down.
k it. Just need to track a decent one down. hora said:
Hmmm. I've knocked my Alfa dream on the head. The need for soldering/Lamda sensor issue on the 2.0JTS (sometimes repeated issue that can affect the cat) along with the engine light coming on 'if its damp' has put me off.
Previously I was going to buy a friends Brera however the few current 'electrical' niggles put me off. I know with secondhand car ownership you get the occasional blip however..
Previously I was going to buy a friends Brera however the few current 'electrical' niggles put me off. I know with secondhand car ownership you get the occasional blip however..
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