RE: All-New Porsche 911 Breaks Cover
Discussion
benzito said:
yep i know exactly what you mean. I just cannot find a single bit of the design to compliment. The back looks horrid (especially from side profile), it will be technically brilliant no doubt but how can porsche expect to compete against jaguar xk's and aston martins,
I think one of the reasons the used 996tt's hold their value well is that they actually look good, if I had any money I would buy a set of 993tt and 996tt's, 2.7RS's etc, I think they will increase vastly in value as the new stuff is just so dull,
the cayenne and panamera are already widely regarded as two of the ugliest models around - looks like the whole range is going in a similar direction!
Look at numbers sold...look at your post. Look at the core R&D investment by VAG and Porsche. Look again at your post. Look at the price tag they'll be asking for these. Look again at your post.I think one of the reasons the used 996tt's hold their value well is that they actually look good, if I had any money I would buy a set of 993tt and 996tt's, 2.7RS's etc, I think they will increase vastly in value as the new stuff is just so dull,
the cayenne and panamera are already widely regarded as two of the ugliest models around - looks like the whole range is going in a similar direction!
You're doeing the math of the one of the most profitable automobile maker this year http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240531119035... And you tell me they will not be able to ...compete? Oh wow.
[quote]By CHRISTOPH RAUWALD
FRANKFURT—Porsche Automobil Holding SE's sportscar division said Monday its first-half operating profit surged on rising demand for luxury vehicles in major markets across the globe, and confirmed that it's targeting a new sales record of more than 100,000 cars this year.
Porsche Chief Financial Officer Lutz Meschke said in a statement that the Stuttgart-based firm wants to continue to finance all new vehicle projects from its cashflow, demonstrating Porsche's strong earnings momentum.
The Source
Porsche Still in the Fast Lane, Though Margins Under Pressure
The car maker said operating profit rose sharply to €1.07 billion ($1.54 billion) from €675 million a year ago. Revenue rose 19% to €5.22 billion as sales improved 26% to 56,272 cars in the January-to-June period. Deliveries to customers were up 37% at 60,659 vehicles. The new generation of Porsche's best-selling Cayenne sports utility vehicle more than doubled sales to 28,405 vehicles. Porsche didn't provide a net profit figure as it doesn't release detailed quarterly reports.
Porsche's operating return on sales was about 20.5% in the first half of the year, making it the world's most profitable major auto maker.
It benefited from booming demand in China, where sales rose 47% to 11,712 cars. In Europe, sales increased by 10.5% to 18,853 vehicles. Porsche's domestic German market accounted for 6,734 cars, up 0.9% year-to-year. North American sales rose 25% to 15,466 cars.
Production increased by 46% on an annual basis to 64,951 vehicles. The Cayenne accounted for 31,661 cars, the Panamera four-door coupe for 13,933 vehicles and the sportscar 911 and Boxster model lines for 19,357 cars.
...
Porsche will launch a diesel version of the Panamera this month as part of a wider effort to expand its product line-up and boost annual sales to 200,000 cars by 2018.
Critics fear, however, that Porsche might dent its coveted brand image if it doubles output. It currently is reaping the highest profit margins among global auto makers due to an efficient production system and the premium prices it charges for its vehicles. Porsche will launch a small SUV to ramp up sales volume and add the high-performance 918 Spyder as a new flagship model.
Edited by AvtoVaz on Thursday 18th August 06:52
Edited by AvtoVaz on Thursday 18th August 06:55
looks good (if better than the current one is a matter of personal taste)
it seems well researched for the target market
it hits the current trend (i hope the will refrain from turbocharging every engine/diesel/hybrid versions)
no doubt it will be around for a while to grow on us and eventually people will whine on its retirement for the same reason as on its presentation (last classic, successor too much/too little 911)
I guess you would have to wait for a while if you order one....
it seems well researched for the target market
it hits the current trend (i hope the will refrain from turbocharging every engine/diesel/hybrid versions)
no doubt it will be around for a while to grow on us and eventually people will whine on its retirement for the same reason as on its presentation (last classic, successor too much/too little 911)
I guess you would have to wait for a while if you order one....
Hmm, ok so it will sell like hotcakes, but I really wanted a 997 when they came out, it was like a blend of 993 and 996 and for the first time in ages it seemed like an all round (apart from the satnav) great car, so I am pretty disappointed with this. The nose is ok, the profile is good, but (from the forum posts so far, this is the marmite section) the back is horrible, like a bad copy of a TT. The interior is too fussy, and if you are getting a manual (proper one) then I can't see how the ergonomics of that centre console work.
On the whole Mr Porsche, not a good effort, I'll not be chopping my 997 in for one of these... Even if the satnav works.
On the whole Mr Porsche, not a good effort, I'll not be chopping my 997 in for one of these... Even if the satnav works.
). I have to say the interior was very driver focused , so much so, that I didn't care about the other gizmos . But the interior on this just looks so generic and bland, some sort of VW exec influence ?
great cars but getting a bit boring can,t they think of something else no doubt I will get 
at but come on 
and now almost as good looking as a Cayman I wonder how it will drive, I preferred the gen 1 997 to the gen 2 to drive. Every time the 911 gets revised it looses a bit of it character IMHO. Apart from the PDK box which was a very welcome addition.
Think the new headlights look rubbish from the side pictures, plus they don't seem to gel with the rear lights, like someone different was responsible for each end.
Think the new headlights look rubbish from the side pictures, plus they don't seem to gel with the rear lights, like someone different was responsible for each end.
Edited by 997fan on Thursday 18th August 08:35
997fan said:
I wonder how it will drive, I preferred the gen 1 997 to the gen 2 to drive. Every time the 911 gets revised it looses a bit of it character IMHO.
It loses character but gets objectively better. In fact, I think that's true of almost all long running families or cars. Another minor point, but is it only me that thinks that foot-well looks awfully narrow to comfortably fit three pedals in? Hopefully it's just the camera lens, but if they have to remove the clutch foot reset in order to fit a clutch pedal in, it would be a shame.
kambites said:
It loses character but gets objectively better. In fact, I think that's true of almost all long running families or cars. Edited by 997fan on Thursday 18th August 08:39
Ready for the slaying BUT:
Porshce has losts its way.
They had to lose the air-cooled engines for emissions and what not- fair enough.
The 996, despite its headlights, kept a lot of the raw, Porscheness EXECPT the engine- it took all the heat for it (despite being praised at the time).
The 997- feels too much like any modern German car. I test drove one, and honesty, on the way home in wifes 3 series could not feel/tell the difference (yes the Porshce AND the BMW are that close/good).
The 991- urgh, its trying to do everything- which a 3 series does perfecly well.
If I need one car for future, that does everything I might go for a E90 M3. When I want a Porshce that feels like a Porsche, I will go for the 996 GT3 (any, I am not bothered).
Although this business model will help it sell millions- a one size fits all, and dilute the brand even further.
HF
Porshce has losts its way.
They had to lose the air-cooled engines for emissions and what not- fair enough.
The 996, despite its headlights, kept a lot of the raw, Porscheness EXECPT the engine- it took all the heat for it (despite being praised at the time).
The 997- feels too much like any modern German car. I test drove one, and honesty, on the way home in wifes 3 series could not feel/tell the difference (yes the Porshce AND the BMW are that close/good).
The 991- urgh, its trying to do everything- which a 3 series does perfecly well.
If I need one car for future, that does everything I might go for a E90 M3. When I want a Porshce that feels like a Porsche, I will go for the 996 GT3 (any, I am not bothered).
Although this business model will help it sell millions- a one size fits all, and dilute the brand even further.
HF
Edited by Henry Fiddleton on Thursday 18th August 08:49
ESOG said:
All new!! Yeah I can tell. It looks nothing like last years or the years before it... 
If every panel is different, how is it not all new?Are you being obtuse, or do you really expect Porsche to deviate from the classic lines of the 911?
Comments like this would funny if they weren't repeated ad nauseum every time a new 911 is released.
I guess it must be nice not to come up with your own opinions and just blindly repeat Clarksonisms.
Edited by Marf on Thursday 18th August 09:12
Henry Fiddleton said:
The 997- feels too much like any modern German car. I test drove one, and honesty, on the way home in wifes 3 series could not feel/tell the difference (yes the Porshce AND the BMW are that close/good).
I agree with much of what you say but basically, beyond the very small anorak microcosm of internet forums, this is what people want. To me, a boxster or a basic 997 is just about the plainest dullest performance car on sale today... order it in metallic grey or dark blue as just about everyone does round my way and its even more generic and unexciting. Most people in life sit in the middle, live in the middle, are uncomfortable outside of the middle and a grey boxster that feels like every other german prestige car, is a doddle to drive, light to the touch and blends in with the crowd is exactly what they want.Old Porsches, new Ferraris.
jackal said:
Henry Fiddleton said:
The 997- feels too much like any modern German car. I test drove one, and honesty, on the way home in wifes 3 series could not feel/tell the difference (yes the Porshce AND the BMW are that close/good).
I agree with much of what you say but basically, beyond the very small anorak microcosm of internet forums, this is what people want. To me, a boxster or a basic 997 is just about the plainest dullest performance car on sale today... order it in metallic grey or dark blue as just about everyone does round my way and its even more generic and unexciting. Most people in life sit in the middle, live in the middle, are uncomfortable outside of the middle and a grey boxster that feels like every other german prestige car, is a doddle to drive, light to the touch and blends in with the crowd is exactly what they want.Old Porsches, new Ferraris.
Mannginger said:
What raw Porscheness are you meaning? I've not driven one but have been passengered in a few and the newer ones are considerably more refined but are still (more so because of it?) incredibly impressive machines.
Hard to put your finger on it, but knowing its Porsche when you drive it- the clunky, gear box change which comes alive once the car is warm, feeling the engine is in the back through some corners through the steering wheel, the slight vibrations you used to get from the flat six which are now engineered out but back in with active mounts, the purposeful less pompous interiors, even the basic but clunky indicator stalks makes me realise when I drive mine. Yes cars need to evolve and stay with the times, but I feel Porsche of all the brands has forgotten what is was all about. Its trying to be something, when all they need to do is be a 911 (991,997,996..;-))
Edited to add- yes to the above, in honesty it probably wouldn't sell in todays market. I mentioned to the wife recently, that most modern cars do nothing for me- unfortunately that includes the 991. Lacks passion and focus, and too much mass marketing.
Edited by Henry Fiddleton on Thursday 18th August 09:31
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