RE: 2012 GT-R To Shave 8 Secs From 'Ring Lap-Time?
Discussion
Ok, let me pose this simple question to all of you who have bought into Nissan's add weight to go faster BS. Why is it that in several motorsport disciplines eg touring cars do they add weight to cars as a penalty to SLOW them down and put them at a disadvantage?
Surely if we are to believe Nissan, this should increase grip and make them faster.
The reason the the GTR is fast is because it has a stonking engine, state of the art drivetrain which can work out in milliseconds exactly which wheel to send power to and a gearbox which can change gear in milliseconds and has nothing to do with how heavy it is, no matter what some crazy Japanese man says. The only reason they come up with that statement was to stop people moaning about how heavy it was. Let me put it another way, when they built the faster hardcore Spec V version of the GTR what did they do to it to make it go quicker? Let me give you a clue, they didn't make it heavier.
Surely if we are to believe Nissan, this should increase grip and make them faster.
The reason the the GTR is fast is because it has a stonking engine, state of the art drivetrain which can work out in milliseconds exactly which wheel to send power to and a gearbox which can change gear in milliseconds and has nothing to do with how heavy it is, no matter what some crazy Japanese man says. The only reason they come up with that statement was to stop people moaning about how heavy it was. Let me put it another way, when they built the faster hardcore Spec V version of the GTR what did they do to it to make it go quicker? Let me give you a clue, they didn't make it heavier.
fwaggie said:
Never...
...has one thread
...seen so much bulls
t
...spouted by so many
...armchair enthusiasts.
And of course, everyone can design a car that can do "the ring" in under 5 minutes flat. I mean if the GT-R is so crap, it must be so easy to design something 1000% better in every way!
That's your homework assignment.
Hand the prototypes in by Monday or it's detention.
This , about 100 times . It's pathetic, we should blow kisses in nissans arse for making a super car for normal people , this is the cosworth of our generation , we waited 20 years for this ...has one thread
...seen so much bulls
t...spouted by so many
...armchair enthusiasts.
And of course, everyone can design a car that can do "the ring" in under 5 minutes flat. I mean if the GT-R is so crap, it must be so easy to design something 1000% better in every way!
That's your homework assignment.
Hand the prototypes in by Monday or it's detention.
Edited by frosted on Thursday 27th October 01:42
The tweaks won't change peoples opinion (prejudices?) about the GT-R. Seems you either love it or hate it.
IMO it is a technical masterpiece, looks amazing and performance per pound is off the scale. BUT: it would be the quickest way (excuse the pun) for me to get imprisoned and/or deported from Switzerland, so there is no way I'd risk buying one!
IMO it is a technical masterpiece, looks amazing and performance per pound is off the scale. BUT: it would be the quickest way (excuse the pun) for me to get imprisoned and/or deported from Switzerland, so there is no way I'd risk buying one!
Guvernator said:
Ok, let me pose this simple question to all of you who have bought into Nissan's add weight to go faster BS. Why is it that in several motorsport disciplines eg touring cars do they add weight to cars as a penalty to SLOW them down and put them at a disadvantage?
Surely if we are to believe Nissan, this should increase grip and make them faster.
The reason the the GTR is fast is because it has a stonking engine, state of the art drivetrain which can work out in milliseconds exactly which wheel to send power to and a gearbox which can change gear in milliseconds and has nothing to do with how heavy it is, no matter what some crazy Japanese man says. The only reason they come up with that statement was to stop people moaning about how heavy it was. Let me put it another way, when they built the faster hardcore Spec V version of the GTR what did they do to it to make it go quicker? Let me give you a clue, they didn't make it heavier.
Come on people, read and try to understand. Who said that they added weight to make it go faster????Surely if we are to believe Nissan, this should increase grip and make them faster.
The reason the the GTR is fast is because it has a stonking engine, state of the art drivetrain which can work out in milliseconds exactly which wheel to send power to and a gearbox which can change gear in milliseconds and has nothing to do with how heavy it is, no matter what some crazy Japanese man says. The only reason they come up with that statement was to stop people moaning about how heavy it was. Let me put it another way, when they built the faster hardcore Spec V version of the GTR what did they do to it to make it go quicker? Let me give you a clue, they didn't make it heavier.
Adding weight to racing cars is to even out the overall performance of the cars across the range of different platforms competing, all within a predetermined set of constraints so in this case is a meaningless comparison.
Regards the v-spec, yes it's marginally lighter as there is I'm sure some minor optimisation to be had to tailor it more toward specific purposes, but its at the expense of comfort and practicality. It's worth noting that it still doesn't appear to have posted any drastically different ring times over the standard car so there can't be very much room at all for tweakery.
PascalBuyens said:
"there's an asymmetric suspension set-up (which Mizuno reckons may be a world first for a production car)"
I believe the 1969 Dodge CHarger has some asymmetrical parts on the left hand side too (from what I've been told, when I was looking into buying one)
look at challenger, charger, 'cuda, GTX, super bee... any of the chrystler, dodge, plymouth, models with an optional "Track Pack" of that era. They were sprung heavier on the right side, to compensate for the torque of the engine rolling to that sideI believe the 1969 Dodge CHarger has some asymmetrical parts on the left hand side too (from what I've been told, when I was looking into buying one)
CoupeCrazy said:
LooneyTunes said:
You want traction in a 7, you find it yourself. You get close to or exceed the limits, you respond to it yourself.
Sure, adding sticky tyres raises the vehicle's performance. But extracting that increase in performance is solely down to the driver.
So, without driver aids what you end up with is a pure and rewarding experience.
Sorry but you appear to be talking mythical pot of gold at the end of the rainbow non-sense here.Sure, adding sticky tyres raises the vehicle's performance. But extracting that increase in performance is solely down to the driver.
So, without driver aids what you end up with is a pure and rewarding experience.
A pair of tyres already doing its best to provide laterial grip will leave very little for corner exit, there is no more traction to find yourself.
Move some of the traction load to the front tyres as the turn straightens up, and you'll find that all four tyres have greater potential. The limit is higher, but the danger is still there if you go past that limit.
All this talk about purity and reward are journalistic babble and just an attempt to undermine the approach that Nissan took to get maximise performance in various conditions.
Nissian could remove the steering wheels and pedals and let a computer drive it round the ring and it would probably be faster and more consistent. Would that make it a better car if you just had a sat nav screen in the car where you program in the destination.
I'm sorry but i worship at the church of less is more
Im not a natural GTR fan, but I kind of like it. I like that it exists, I like that a Jap nutter got it made. I like that its fairly no compromise. I also like that it was released with limited room for tweaking, i.e. they made it as good as they could in the first place, not toned it down 5-10%.
The weight argument is drivel. If it was half the weight it would be significantly faster, but it isnt and isnt likely to be so anytime soon because of all the hardware packed in there.
I would be interested in one second hand but I fully confess to all that hardware outside of being warranty protected scares the crap out of me. That lot starts to go wrong...and it goes wrong even inside the warranty period...and the bills will kill your fun and sense of pride and enjoyment in owning a car. Thats not someone slagging off the reliability of the GTR, its just hard and expensively won experience of how these things go and the impact it has upon my wallet.
The weight argument is drivel. If it was half the weight it would be significantly faster, but it isnt and isnt likely to be so anytime soon because of all the hardware packed in there.
I would be interested in one second hand but I fully confess to all that hardware outside of being warranty protected scares the crap out of me. That lot starts to go wrong...and it goes wrong even inside the warranty period...and the bills will kill your fun and sense of pride and enjoyment in owning a car. Thats not someone slagging off the reliability of the GTR, its just hard and expensively won experience of how these things go and the impact it has upon my wallet.
I genuinely don't understand why people seem to believe there is a level of hate or prejudice towards Nissan in this thread - I've seen none. In fact, I don't think I've seen anything posted that suggests Nissan has made anything other than a technically astonishing and good value car.
The biggest issue is that Nissan, by boasting about the car's track credentials, lay themselves open to comparison with alternative approaches to track-capable car design - hence the camp that says that the brute force/electronics approach isn't one they find that inspiring.
The biggest issue is that Nissan, by boasting about the car's track credentials, lay themselves open to comparison with alternative approaches to track-capable car design - hence the camp that says that the brute force/electronics approach isn't one they find that inspiring.
CoupeCrazy said:
I may make spelling mistakes when in a rush, but atleast I make the effort to understand about the subject that I post about.
What you posted about weight and grip is wrong and dangerious to post on public fora.
CoupeCrazy please stop talking bWhat you posted about weight and grip is wrong and dangerious to post on public fora.
ks. I don't know if this has been posted yet, but increasing the static load of the car i.e. weight will load up the tyres more and hence create more "grip".However when going around a corner, there is such a thing as cetripedal forces, which also act proportional to weight and these forces try and keep the car going straight.
So in essence no good can come from adding weight in vehicle dynamics, downforce in F1 works because you don't have the penalty of extra mass in the corners, it is free as it were.
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