RE: Lotus parent company sold
Discussion
Techn0 said:
Will Fernandes pounce if Lotus are for sale?
Control of Lotus, Caterham and 1 and a half f1 teams could be on the cards.
Oh and you can guarantee Bahar has made a shed load out of Lotus even when the company is doing so poorly.
Why on earth should he? He's getting an F1 team, and a respected manufacturer with plans to launch a new model, and a consistently performing sales book. Having not got Lotus, he's recreating their business model at Caterham, without the baggage of the existing products and infrastructure.Control of Lotus, Caterham and 1 and a half f1 teams could be on the cards.
Oh and you can guarantee Bahar has made a shed load out of Lotus even when the company is doing so poorly.
Techn0 said:
Will Fernandes pounce if Lotus are for sale?
Control of Lotus, Caterham and 1 and a half f1 teams could be on the cards.
Oh and you can guarantee Bahar has made a shed load out of Lotus even when the company is doing so poorly.
If Group Lotus folded/disappeared would TF then not be able to expand the usage of the Team Lotus name ? (I don't recall hearing that it had been transferred to GL or anyone else, just that a deal had been done for him to stop using it - and the Renault team has not been rebranded as Team Lotus, just Lotus).Control of Lotus, Caterham and 1 and a half f1 teams could be on the cards.
Oh and you can guarantee Bahar has made a shed load out of Lotus even when the company is doing so poorly.
Just speculating wildly, btw - not proposing anything seriously.
ESOG said:
Okay, so whats the problem that I have with the Evora?
I think the prospect of a 2+2 mid engined sports car with heritage seems like a very attractive one indeed. So why then the failure? I am serious when I say I believe it ALL comes down to 2 things: PRICE and RECOGNITION. The Evora is simply priced TOO HIGH!!
Don't overlook,I think the prospect of a 2+2 mid engined sports car with heritage seems like a very attractive one indeed. So why then the failure? I am serious when I say I believe it ALL comes down to 2 things: PRICE and RECOGNITION. The Evora is simply priced TOO HIGH!!
- it's too heavy
- frumpy exterior styling
- useless +2 legroom
- cramped and dark rear seating area
- shocking rear visibility
- dubious interior
- laughable stereo/satnav
Sadly the real question is how on earth Lotus were daft enough to come up with a car like that in the first place.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Don't overlook,
Sadly the real question is how on earth Lotus were daft enough to come up with a car like that in the first place.
I'm sort of coming round to the styling myself, it hasn't dated much. In the right colour it looks great - it was close to being a brilliant design but didn't quite make it.- it's too heavy
- frumpy exterior styling
- useless +2 legroom
- cramped and dark rear seating area
- shocking rear visibility
- dubious interior
- laughable stereo/satnav
Sadly the real question is how on earth Lotus were daft enough to come up with a car like that in the first place.
The interior is fine - brilliant seats and driving position - a few niggles with switches and light reflections but interior is fine effort imho. The rear seats are also usable just and do give some flexibility for short journeys/kids etc.
I think 45k for the base with the Sports and tech packs included, it would be fine (haggle hard is my advice). It should have been launched to the standard of the MY12 cars and it would have been a lot better received than it was - also more difficult to sell a specialist car in the face of a recession against the security of a known depreciation curve in say a Porsche....
Scuffers said:
Nail >>> Head.
IMHO Lotus need the Elise to get back to what it was supposed to be, a lightweight fun 2nd car, and get the price back down to the point where it's 2nd car money (in much the same way Caterham/Ginetta/etc are).
Hmm £16 - 43K for the 7, & the Elise is £28 - 37KIMHO Lotus need the Elise to get back to what it was supposed to be, a lightweight fun 2nd car, and get the price back down to the point where it's 2nd car money (in much the same way Caterham/Ginetta/etc are).
I'd say the Elise is parked just about in the middle of that range with alot more comfort and protection.
Monkey boy 1 said:
Hmm £16 - 43K for the 7, & the Elise is £28 - 37K
I'd say the Elise is parked just about in the middle of that range with alot more comfort and protection.
Trouble is that Ginetta's 29k entry level offering has a 65bhp/ton advantage over Lotus's.I'd say the Elise is parked just about in the middle of that range with alot more comfort and protection.
I don't think the Elise is badly priced at all - to my mind people have bizarre ideas of what a specialist sportscar should cost compared to what they think a souped up hatchback is worth.
I don't think an economical low power, low emission, low tax Elise is at all a bad idea either - it just seems to me that an alternative entry level model with enough power to make it a performance bargain might have sold some more cars. I doubt that the cost of the engine is the major part of the cost of building an Elise.
Ozzie Osmond said:
One big question as the price goes up is how performance fares against top quality metal available for the same money,
BMW M 135i - £32,000 (306 bhp)
BMW M3 - £55,000 (420 bhp)
It's no fun buying yourself an exotic sportscar which is blown into the weeds by stuff like that.
This is EXACTLY my argument!!! To introduce a car such as the Evora costing nearly 85 grand US dollars and have under 300hp is UNNACCEPTABLE!!! I don't care how seemless it rides or how fast IT FEELS!! Or even the stock numbers is all it needs, any non enthusiast deep down also wants bragging rights. You know damn good and well the engine could be tuned to 350hp easily from the get-go. I don't need some wise ass in a tuned 335 automatic simply laying his right foot down and pulling on me while in an Evora. Or replace the 335 and insert tunred evo or WRXBMW M 135i - £32,000 (306 bhp)
BMW M3 - £55,000 (420 bhp)
It's no fun buying yourself an exotic sportscar which is blown into the weeds by stuff like that.
More than once on here I've read posts that go "The Evora is s
t, therefore Bahar is a tt!"
Aside from the fact that it's not st (having had a go in one), it had nothing to with Bahar. It was done before he got there. His only influence on the car has been the improvement in quality of the MY12 version, the GTE and The Evora S.
Oddly, the same people that are doing this name calling are also shouting about how The Evora needs to be better quality inside, look better outside and have more power.
t, therefore Bahar is a tt!"Aside from the fact that it's not s
t (having had a go in one), it had nothing to with Bahar. It was done before he got there. His only influence on the car has been the improvement in quality of the MY12 version, the GTE and The Evora S.Oddly, the same people that are doing this name calling are also shouting about how The Evora needs to be better quality inside, look better outside and have more power.
otolith said:
To be honest, irrespective of cost I'd rather have the 134bhp Elise than the 306bhp 1-series.
I wouldn't i like lotus far more than BMW, but i'd feel mugged off with a 30k sports car, from a supposed performance brand that struggled to keep up with even mild performance cars like the MX5 or junior hot hatchesI'd take the Beemer, it at least it offers proper sports car performance for 2011
peter450 said:
I wouldn't i like lotus far more than BMW, but i'd feel mugged off with a 30k sports car, from a supposed performance brand that struggled to keep up with even mild performance cars like the MX5 or junior hot hatches
I'd have to look at the technical regulations to see why they were racing in the same class as me, although to be honest I'm unlikely to enter my car in any race series. 
OK, that's flippant, and I do prefer a bit more straight line than the current base Elise offers, but it isn't really for reasons of competing with other traffic - if it's fast enough for me to enjoy, I don't really mind that other people have faster cars - I find that I get used to acceleration very quickly.
peter450 said:
I'd take the Beemer, it at least it offers proper sports car performance for 2011
How much faster would you actually drive down your local B-road in the Beemer? Would you actually be having more fun?Lotus seems dammed if they do dammed if they don't, much like lexus in this respect.
On the one hand they can and do produce very fine handling lightweight sports cars. This hasn't worked in the mass market as no-one wants a tin can without the modern practicalities and creature comforts that something like a boxter can offer, despite the superior drive that a lotus offers.
Lotus has to decide wether to stick with the low volume niche market or make a mass market car that beats its rivals on the handling front and the day to day stuff.
Clearly the niche stuff isn't sustainable.
Does the new Lotus business model have any real profitably? At least they are giving it a go, however relying on government money is a shortsighted plan. Why are haven't any private investors taken the plunge?
Unfortunately Lotus doesn't seem to have mass appeal. This maybe a good thing but won't pay the bills.
On the one hand they can and do produce very fine handling lightweight sports cars. This hasn't worked in the mass market as no-one wants a tin can without the modern practicalities and creature comforts that something like a boxter can offer, despite the superior drive that a lotus offers.
Lotus has to decide wether to stick with the low volume niche market or make a mass market car that beats its rivals on the handling front and the day to day stuff.
Clearly the niche stuff isn't sustainable.
Does the new Lotus business model have any real profitably? At least they are giving it a go, however relying on government money is a shortsighted plan. Why are haven't any private investors taken the plunge?
Unfortunately Lotus doesn't seem to have mass appeal. This maybe a good thing but won't pay the bills.
Techn0 said:
Unfortunately Lotus doesn't seem to have mass appeal. This maybe a good thing but won't pay the bills.
The other way round that is to reduce the bills, but downsizing to be the sort of company your market can support is not easy when your owner has just invested stloads of cash in you.ESOG said:
This is EXACTLY my argument!!! To introduce a car such as the Evora costing nearly 85 grand US dollars and have under 300hp is UNNACCEPTABLE!!! I don't care how seemless it rides or how fast IT FEELS!! Or even the stock numbers is all it needs, any non enthusiast deep down also wants bragging rights. You know damn good and well the engine could be tuned to 350hp easily from the get-go. I don't need some wise ass in a tuned 335 automatic simply laying his right foot down and pulling on me while in an Evora. Or replace the 335 and insert tunred evo or WRX
It's not all about power.Monkey boy 1 said:
ESOG said:
This is EXACTLY my argument!!! To introduce a car such as the Evora costing nearly 85 grand US dollars and have under 300hp is UNNACCEPTABLE!!! I don't care how seemless it rides or how fast IT FEELS!! Or even the stock numbers is all it needs, any non enthusiast deep down also wants bragging rights. You know damn good and well the engine could be tuned to 350hp easily from the get-go. I don't need some wise ass in a tuned 335 automatic simply laying his right foot down and pulling on me while in an Evora. Or replace the 335 and insert tunred evo or WRX
It's not all about power.Ozzie Osmond said:
Don't overlook,
Sadly the real question is how on earth Lotus were daft enough to come up with a car like that in the first place.
The new boxster that isn't +2 you mean? My kids sat in the back of an Evora for a hundred miles and couldn't get enough of it. They didn't complain about it being cramped and dark either. I think they might have complained if I'd put them in the back of a Boxster. Also beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the Evora looks far better in the flesh and is very purposeful looking, to me the Boxster is just so dull, common and flabby to look at, I don't even flicker my pupils slightly if one goes past.- it's too heavy
- frumpy exterior styling
- useless +2 legroom
- cramped and dark rear seating area
- shocking rear visibility
- dubious interior
- laughable stereo/satnav
Sadly the real question is how on earth Lotus were daft enough to come up with a car like that in the first place.
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