RE: Why Bentley has to build its SUV
Discussion
Carfolio said:
Kawasicki said:
I think Porsche have damaged their brand with the Cayenne. Yes, I am sure they are a great people carrier, but Porsche no longer means sports cars.
Now Bentley intends to do the same, that's not very imaginative, is it? Still, the car will sell, and it's so hard to put a value on brand damage.
Spot on. Short term profit, long term brand value down the tubes. Now Bentley intends to do the same, that's not very imaginative, is it? Still, the car will sell, and it's so hard to put a value on brand damage.
Come to think of it, that would have increased profit for VAG, helped to lift Audi clear of VW in at least one area, showcased them as a 4WD/off-road specialist and preserved Porsche's image too.
Thing is, the Cayenne is made at the same factory in Poland as the Toerag and the Q7, so it's not as though it's 'securing Porsche jobs', and I wouldn't be surprised if this Bentley ended up there too rather than Crewe.
If you see all VAG's businesses as separate entities, it makes sense, but they're not. It's not like PSA and Toyota joint-developing and selling the Aygo to all their benefit, with different marque identities out of necessity. They are effectively the same car, only with different bodyshells, interiors and some engines and gearboxes.
Yes, so they sell well, but if they'd just concentrated on one marque/model with a name like Audi that could be sold with a huge range of price tags, they'd be making even more money.
Admit it, if a British manufacturer did something similar - say for argument's sake the MG6 was available as an MG, a Rover, a Triumph, a Wolseley, a Riley, and Austin and a Morris, each one with a different bodyshell and subtly different engine and trim configurations, people would be weeping at the inefficiency of it all regardless of how well they sold.
And bear in mind that in the Sixties, BMC's 1100/1300 range was Britain's biggest-selling car. Didn't stop all the manufacturers whose identities were attached to it over the years going under.
I often think the same thing about Vauxhall too. Before 1981 Vauxhall differentiated itself from Opel with its own range of engines, superior aerodynamics and the DTV race and rally programme. This was absorbed into GM Dealersport and Vauxhalls became simply badge-engineered Opels as of 1981, but I often wonder what would have happened if Vauxhall was used as a high-performance skunkworks instead, adding its own touches - aerodynamics, engines, weight reduction etc - to the ranges it was involved in based on its participation in events like the BTCC and the IRC.
As it is, Vauxhall developed the HiPerStrut suspension system in Britain around British roads, which hints at that kind of prowess, but I rather like the idea of the Griffin badge being a signal to the congnoscenti that this GM car means business.
Twincam16 said:
And as I said, in terms of the overall revenue for the Volkswagen-Audi Group, they could merely have expanded the Q7 range with Porsche-designed high-performance engines (maybe a Seventies-style 'Porsche + Audi' logo on the boot would suit it?). They could have sold it at the same prices and saved themselves plenty of money doing it too, with no need for extra production lines
The new buyers want prestige and status. Bentley is seen as having it, Audi and the other brands clearly less so - if that wasn't the case, there would be a lot more W12 Phaetons driving around than Continentals and Flying Spurs. How many W12 Touraegs (or even V12 Q7s) do you think they've managed to sell?
Unfortunately it's rather typical of what the Germans think a "British" design should look like. It's all heritage and caricature. The BMW Designed Range Rover and Mini were typical as was the 75. Even Ford did it with the S-Type and XJ so German "Britishness" infected them as well. Here in the UK JLR freed of external control have now got the design right. You only need to look at the RR Sport and Evoque and the Jaguar XF and "new" XJ to see what the new JLR can do. They also "split" the marques so that each has it's identity. As previously stated VW's identities for it's various "Brands" is confused and detracts sales from SEAT. The Phaeton also suffers as it's seen as a budget Audi.
Hugo a Gogo said:
Gorbyrev said:
Given the Bentley tradition of naming vehicles after places and the somewhat challenging brickwork, how about naming this after a prison - perhaps the Bentley Wormwood Scrubs or the Bentley Saughton. Ah - what about a French prison.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Bentley Bastille, complete with rigid safety cell and doing time drive. Keyless entry not an option.
The Bentley Barlinnie has a certain ring to itLadies and gentlemen, the Bentley Bastille, complete with rigid safety cell and doing time drive. Keyless entry not an option.
Edited by Gorbyrev on Monday 12th March 14:34
Let's face it that thing will take Bentley down the pan 
telecat said:
Unfortunately it's rather typical of what the Germans think a "British" design should look like. It's all heritage and caricature. The BMW Designed Range Rover and Mini were typical as was the 75. Even Ford did it with the S-Type and XJ so German "Britishness" infected them as well. Here in the UK JLR freed of external control have now got the design right. You only need to look at the RR Sport and Evoque and the Jaguar XF and "new" XJ to see what the new JLR can do. They also "split" the marques so that each has it's identity
If you look at where those cars were designed and by whom, it's not so simple (and I'd argue that the L322 Range Rover - in its original form at least - is one of the very best designs of recent times).Charlie Michael said:
Hugo a Gogo said:
Gorbyrev said:
Given the Bentley tradition of naming vehicles after places and the somewhat challenging brickwork, how about naming this after a prison - perhaps the Bentley Wormwood Scrubs or the Bentley Saughton. Ah - what about a French prison.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Bentley Bastille, complete with rigid safety cell and doing time drive. Keyless entry not an option.
The Bentley Barlinnie has a certain ring to itLadies and gentlemen, the Bentley Bastille, complete with rigid safety cell and doing time drive. Keyless entry not an option.
Edited by Gorbyrev on Monday 12th March 14:34
Trommel said:
Twincam16 said:
And as I said, in terms of the overall revenue for the Volkswagen-Audi Group, they could merely have expanded the Q7 range with Porsche-designed high-performance engines (maybe a Seventies-style 'Porsche + Audi' logo on the boot would suit it?). They could have sold it at the same prices and saved themselves plenty of money doing it too, with no need for extra production lines
The new buyers want prestige and status. Bentley is seen as having it, Audi and the other brands clearly less so - if that wasn't the case, there would be a lot more W12 Phaetons driving around than Continentals and Flying Spurs. How many W12 Touraegs (or even V12 Q7s) do you think they've managed to sell?
Their strategy is a success in the only way you can measure success in a business sales/profit and margin and they are all up through the roof.
Profit after tax has doubled from 2010 to 2011.
Edited by Wills2 on Tuesday 13th March 12:28
Carfolio said:
Kawasicki said:
I think Porsche have damaged their brand with the Cayenne. Yes, I am sure they are a great people carrier, but Porsche no longer means sports cars.
Now Bentley intends to do the same, that's not very imaginative, is it? Still, the car will sell, and it's so hard to put a value on brand damage.
Spot on. Short term profit, long term brand value down the tubes. Now Bentley intends to do the same, that's not very imaginative, is it? Still, the car will sell, and it's so hard to put a value on brand damage.
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