RE: Chris Harris video: Deltawing drive
Discussion
Andy ap said:
Its fantastic to see the Designer and engineers explanation of how a car like this works. It rewrites what we understand about how physics can be manipulated rather than bent.
Except of course, it doesn't. Physics always wins.Whilst this is a fun diversion, and the world is a more fun place for its presence, it's not really the "new messaih" unfortunately. Ignoring the glaring dynamics errors talked about in that piece, it broadly "works" because it occupys a niche into which "normal" cars cannot move due to the regulations. A conventionally "tracked" car, of the same mass and drag (which is possible given the same freedom of regulations that the deltawing has (because drag is fundamentally a function of frontal area, not planiform section)), would be faster than the deltawing under all circumstances.
Take the suspension that "seperates heave from roll damping" so? Just about every formula car built since about 1993 has used that same system, so it's hardly revolutionary is it?
Don't get me wrong, i applaud what they have done, and it certainly brings some new found and welcome interest to an otherwise quite staid arena, but i'm not sure it's as revolutionary as it is made out to be...........
Baron Greenback said:
Great vid love the car and would love to have a road legal version.
There was once - Trivette / Vigillante
Max_Torque said:
A conventionally "tracked" car, of the same mass and drag (which is possible given the same freedom of regulations that the deltawing has (because drag is fundamentally a function of frontal area, not planiform section)), would be faster than the deltawing under all circumstances.
Really, can you prove that?I will stand up and admit that I thought the idea of racing it was wrong from the start. I appreciate the science and technology but I still stand by the fact that the shape is not appropriate for wheel to wheel racing.
Maybe the design would be better suited to sprints and hillclimbs where the mechanical side can be appreciated and used without the shape making it "dangerous" when racing with others. Pikes Peak for example would be perfect now that it is 100% tarmac.
(awaits abuse!)
Maybe the design would be better suited to sprints and hillclimbs where the mechanical side can be appreciated and used without the shape making it "dangerous" when racing with others. Pikes Peak for example would be perfect now that it is 100% tarmac.
(awaits abuse!)
I love proper engineering, this is an engineers car, as the video proves. Such an interesting concept deserves a proper future. Any prospect of seeing it at Le Mans 2013?
Great video, more like that (with enthusiasts explaining technical detail) please, and don't be afraid to make the vids longer, if the content is there then use it
Great video, more like that (with enthusiasts explaining technical detail) please, and don't be afraid to make the vids longer, if the content is there then use it
Great video even with no overseer!
In the build up to le man's I fully expected this to flop but the exact opposite happened. It gripped me so much more than expected.
Too many drawbacks with a single front wheel in endurance racing with exposure to punchures.
Best of all there's no drs, kers or blown diffusers just a clean sheet design with great engineering.
In the build up to le man's I fully expected this to flop but the exact opposite happened. It gripped me so much more than expected.
Too many drawbacks with a single front wheel in endurance racing with exposure to punchures.
Best of all there's no drs, kers or blown diffusers just a clean sheet design with great engineering.
Great video even with no overseer!
In the build up to le man's I fully expected this to flop but the exact opposite happened. It gripped me so much more than expected.
Too many drawbacks with a single front wheel in endurance racing with exposure to punchures.
Best of all there's no drs, kers or blown diffusers just a clean sheet design with great engineering.
In the build up to le man's I fully expected this to flop but the exact opposite happened. It gripped me so much more than expected.
Too many drawbacks with a single front wheel in endurance racing with exposure to punchures.
Best of all there's no drs, kers or blown diffusers just a clean sheet design with great engineering.
RX7 said:
Stunning
I know varying motorsports have their stipulations and regulations, and on the most part they need to fair, but how do we think things will ever progress beyond what is considered conventional and normal.
The Deltawing is needed to push boundaries and the convention of what should or can work etc Why cant the specifications for things be simple, i.e bhp per ton! Whether you want to run something like this, light with lower hp, diesel, petrol etc etc
I hate to think motorsport is in place to favour certain manufacturers
Yup. Rules are rules and they exist for very good reasons. I know varying motorsports have their stipulations and regulations, and on the most part they need to fair, but how do we think things will ever progress beyond what is considered conventional and normal.
The Deltawing is needed to push boundaries and the convention of what should or can work etc Why cant the specifications for things be simple, i.e bhp per ton! Whether you want to run something like this, light with lower hp, diesel, petrol etc etc
I hate to think motorsport is in place to favour certain manufacturers
However, there is always a reason to look to break them and make exceptions when something is important enough. Especially as rules can halt progress and fix mindsets.
I think the power of this car is that it will open the minds of very bright people and future people joining the industry in different directions and this will lead to innovation and change.
My only complaint is that Monkey's videos never seem to work on my wifi connection. I wonder if they are HD? If so, Monkey can you contemplate less bandwidth demanding versions for a techno Luddite.
Nissan are to be applauded for backing this venture. Great piece here on PH by the way, really really enjoyed it.
I was at Le-Mans when the Deltawing got nerfed off into the wall at night. Right in front of the Corvette curve and European Corvette Club hospitality area. Those guys worked so, so, so bloody hard to get that Delta going again. Shouting instructions through the fence in the dark, whilst their laptops glowed. Poor Satoshi who must have been on the point of real physical collapse, pulled bits off and stuck bits on. Hearts bled for them, you just had to turn away some of the time.
When they finally chucked the towel and sent for the flatbed and they collected Satoshi on a moped, A bigger cheer went round than ever did when Audi finally won the event.
Yet another brilliant Brit engineer, Ben Bowlby
I was at Le-Mans when the Deltawing got nerfed off into the wall at night. Right in front of the Corvette curve and European Corvette Club hospitality area. Those guys worked so, so, so bloody hard to get that Delta going again. Shouting instructions through the fence in the dark, whilst their laptops glowed. Poor Satoshi who must have been on the point of real physical collapse, pulled bits off and stuck bits on. Hearts bled for them, you just had to turn away some of the time.
When they finally chucked the towel and sent for the flatbed and they collected Satoshi on a moped, A bigger cheer went round than ever did when Audi finally won the event.
Yet another brilliant Brit engineer, Ben Bowlby
mikeg15 said:
The design is totally logical, so it makes me wonder whether it really needs two front wheels ? Was this a sop to the car set, could it not work just as well ( or better ) with a single front wheel ?
You need 4 wheels to qualify it as a car otherwise it's a motorbike/side car combination.BobTurner said:
Chris, you've seen the Equinox programme on Channel 4 - "The Nuts and Bolts of Ben Bowlby"?
Also The Dyslexic Engineergarypotter said:
Best video so far chris, thank you,
A great car, I believe this is a step forward for racing 417gs 320hp and keeping up with lmp1s and 2s, I still cannot get how the front end with no weight gets the amount of grip for those cornering G's,
The front wheels are quite a long way in front of the centre of mass and downforce. They are effectively on the end of a long lever compared to a normal car where the centres of mass and downforce are further forward.A great car, I believe this is a step forward for racing 417gs 320hp and keeping up with lmp1s and 2s, I still cannot get how the front end with no weight gets the amount of grip for those cornering G's,
Leverage is all...
Streetrod said:
By having two narrow tyres and independent front suspension you would able to keep both tyres square to the road and therefore increase the grip, does that make sense?
In the video Ben mentions the rear has 20mm of roll so there's far less across the much narrower front 'axel' which allows both front wheels to work in a corner.Munter said:
Despite coming in at the last phase, I think Nissan do deserve credit for looking at it and going "You know what. That works. We like it. We'll back you and get it racing." Any car company could have done that. But Nissan did.
Indeed. Credit to Nissan for getting involved.Gorbyrev said:
Couldn't find it on Youtube but I did find this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLPkR_hDUtg
It would appear Mr Bowlby was destined for innovative greatness! Look at the picture of the back of his proposed car at 7:06 - wait a minute, that looks familiar!!!
The car in the pics that Ben is holding are of his Vauxhaul Clubmans race car from the early 1990s that he built as part of his university course.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLPkR_hDUtg
It would appear Mr Bowlby was destined for innovative greatness! Look at the picture of the back of his proposed car at 7:06 - wait a minute, that looks familiar!!!
It featured as narrow nose and good underside airflow but had a standard front track.
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