RE: Aston Martin Rapide S revealed
Discussion
Donkey62 said:
The Rapide a decade out of date imho in every area, interior feels old style is well old and engine is really out of touch compared to the Germans eco blown motors
The engine has got more character than the turboed German rivals. Might not be as economical or powerful, but its more than enough in 470bhp spec. With 550bhp it will be fantastic. Not to mention how great it sounds. Imo the interior is a nicer place to be than any German rival. It might not have as many toys, but its got everything you need. I know where I would rather be sitting.
Pr1964 said:
davepoth said:
Looks like the 2014 Mondeo...
Not that silly looks like it's part of the ford family.
Fire99 said:
Funk said:
Good:
Bad:
They've actually made it uglier.
:Yes: (Though would be even better without the integrated DRL's)Bad:
They've actually made it uglier.
A stunning car has become a parody of itself.
ghibbett said:
B10 said:
Has production moved from Austria to Gaydon?
Unfortunately 
I suppose you are going to go all Clarkson and talk about Austin Maxis or rusting Lancias. Gaydon is fine manufacturing plant making greta cars in a difficult market.
I am sick of these purile these comments about AM. We should be proud of them.
The Pammymara looks sh 1 t.
911s have looked similar since the early 60's.
The boxster only now look aceptable rather than a push-me-pull-me car.
I could go on with moronic comments about Porsche if that what is required.
Please all you grow up and stop trying to destroy AM with your pathetic comments. If not move abroad and winge elswhere.
B10 said:
ghibbett said:
B10 said:
Has production moved from Austria to Gaydon?
Unfortunately I suppose you are going to go all Clarkson and talk about Austin Maxis or rusting Lancias. Gaydon is fine manufacturing plant making greta cars in a difficult market.
I am sick of these purile these comments about AM. We should be proud of them.
The Pammymara looks sh 1 t.
911s have looked similar since the early 60's.
The boxster only now look aceptable rather than a push-me-pull-me car.
I could go on with moronic comments about Porsche if that what is required.
Please all you grow up and stop trying to destroy AM with your pathetic comments. If not move abroad and winge elswhere.
Look - I love Aston Martin. I particularly love the new Vanquish.
I just wish it had a better management team and made better decisions.
I want them to do well. But at a time when rivals such as Bentley are recording record sales up 22% in 2012 over 2011, it is frankly depressing to see Aston sales way down and the company grubbing around with half-baked facelifts that will make diddly squat difference to their financial performance. The market is not difficult for Bentley or Rolls Royce - they are making record profits. In contrast, Aston sales are falling fast. This tells us something.
So, my message to Aston senior management is that I love the heritage, love some of the cars, but we really need to see some changes. Come on boys, you are in a tailspin. Selling a few hundred cars a year has no future when your rivals are making thousands of cars. Pull your fingers out and do something before it is too late.
Edited by toppstuff on Thursday 24th January 16:40
First Aston I've not liked the look of, which is a shame.
Not sure the 'it'll look better with a numberplate' as its saving grace will convince me otherwise, either. I feel a car's looks shouldn't rely on the DVLA; if anything the DVLA should hinder them if its a successful design in its own right.
Not sure the 'it'll look better with a numberplate' as its saving grace will convince me otherwise, either. I feel a car's looks shouldn't rely on the DVLA; if anything the DVLA should hinder them if its a successful design in its own right.
B10 said:
I am sick of these purile these comments about AM. We should be proud of them.
Please all you grow up and stop trying to destroy AM with your pathetic comments. If not move abroad and winge elswhere.
'Agree with me or "move abroad"' Please all you grow up and stop trying to destroy AM with your pathetic comments. If not move abroad and winge elswhere.
Are you a supplier to AM? I'd suggest you have far too much venom for you simply to be an AM-fanboy.
This is a forum, people are entitled to their opinion, as are you; therefore, if you're "sick of these purile comments" you have the choice not to read them.
Lastly, do you own one? Have you owned one? If not, may I suggest you go out today and purchase one, new, from a dealer; this is by far the best way of showing your support for AM. Moaning at people who have dared to disagree with your world view is not.
Lightningman said:
B10 said:
I am sick of these purile these comments about AM. We should be proud of them.
Please all you grow up and stop trying to destroy AM with your pathetic comments. If not move abroad and winge elswhere.
'Agree with me or "move abroad"' Please all you grow up and stop trying to destroy AM with your pathetic comments. If not move abroad and winge elswhere.
Are you a supplier to AM? I'd suggest you have far too much venom for you simply to be an AM-fanboy.
This is a forum, people are entitled to their opinion, as are you; therefore, if you're "sick of these purile comments" you have the choice not to read them.
Lastly, do you own one? Have you owned one? If not, may I suggest you go out today and purchase one, new, from a dealer; this is by far the best way of showing your support for AM. Moaning at people who have dared to disagree with your world view is not.
As for the new Rapide I not convinced by the new front end. However I would love to be able to buy a new AM. However working in manufactruring even a senior level that will never be possible.
B10 said:
Lightningman said:
B10 said:
I am sick of these purile these comments about AM. We should be proud of them.
Please all you grow up and stop trying to destroy AM with your pathetic comments. If not move abroad and winge elswhere.
'Agree with me or "move abroad"' Please all you grow up and stop trying to destroy AM with your pathetic comments. If not move abroad and winge elswhere.
Are you a supplier to AM? I'd suggest you have far too much venom for you simply to be an AM-fanboy.
This is a forum, people are entitled to their opinion, as are you; therefore, if you're "sick of these purile comments" you have the choice not to read them.
Lastly, do you own one? Have you owned one? If not, may I suggest you go out today and purchase one, new, from a dealer; this is by far the best way of showing your support for AM. Moaning at people who have dared to disagree with your world view is not.
As for the new Rapide I not convinced by the new front end. However I would love to be able to buy a new AM. However working in manufactruring even a senior level that will never be possible.
My concern is that AM are not doing enough to meet the challenges posed by the competition. They have chosen to operate within a very specific market segment and within that arena, the competition is strong and, in many ways, superior. I want them to put up a product offering that competes but at the moment, I do not believe they are. My earlier point was that without a massive financial investment and/or a strategic partner, I cannot see them going the distance. They have too much heritage for any petrolhead to truly wish them gone but if they do not raise their product (quality, technology and design) I fear we will see them limp along rather than being a true competitor in the sports car arena.
As for German cars having faults too; if anyone thinks they do not, they are naive.
I can list the faults I have had in a myriad of new cars (German, Japanese and European) and they equal out across countries; the Germans may have the edge but they aren't faultless.
Lightningman said:
B10, your comments about UK manufacturing are close to my heart too and I agree wholeheartedly; however, where we diverge is in your belief that criticising AM is akin to putting a nail in British manufacturers.
My concern is that AM are not doing enough to meet the challenges posed by the competition. They have chosen to operate within a very specific market segment and within that arena, the competition is strong and, in many ways, superior. I want them to put up a product offering that competes but at the moment, I do not believe they are. My earlier point was that without a massive financial investment and/or a strategic partner, I cannot see them going the distance. They have too much heritage for any petrolhead to truly wish them gone but if they do not raise their product (quality, technology and design) I fear we will see them limp along rather than being a true competitor in the sports car arena.
As for German cars having faults too; if anyone thinks they do not, they are naive.
I can list the faults I have had in a myriad of new cars (German, Japanese and European) and they equal out across countries; the Germans may have the edge but they aren't faultless.
LM I actually agree totally. However it is the tone of some people's binary view on UK manufacturing that cause me to go into rant mode. Sorry.My concern is that AM are not doing enough to meet the challenges posed by the competition. They have chosen to operate within a very specific market segment and within that arena, the competition is strong and, in many ways, superior. I want them to put up a product offering that competes but at the moment, I do not believe they are. My earlier point was that without a massive financial investment and/or a strategic partner, I cannot see them going the distance. They have too much heritage for any petrolhead to truly wish them gone but if they do not raise their product (quality, technology and design) I fear we will see them limp along rather than being a true competitor in the sports car arena.
As for German cars having faults too; if anyone thinks they do not, they are naive.
I can list the faults I have had in a myriad of new cars (German, Japanese and European) and they equal out across countries; the Germans may have the edge but they aren't faultless.
Modern car business is very difficult and expensive. Jaguar, for example, would not around without Ford, Tata and governemnet money. To reign in manufacturing one must invest in all aspects of the business, especialy new products. Something that governments and some management and especially the UK finacial industry do not always understand. To grow the business investment is paramount and long term. The rewards are not instant as some in the city would prefer.
Aston Martin - Divides opinion like no other in these forums!
You can't please everyone, and in doing so you please no one!
Personally I like the new front end, it's striking rather then just being a DB9 alike face. It's certainly works better for me then the large grill of the V12 Zagato! More structured.
The V12 Zagato was said to suggest future Aston design paths, this proves that. As long as not every car gets the new larger grill, I like it. Dont forget the DB7 Vantage Zagato had a large grill and the DB-AR1! This is not a new style!
After all, 'There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion'.
With the new Vanquish, updated DB9, Rapide and V8 Vantage they all now very much have their own personalities and faces. Were as before DB9, DBS and Rapide were VERY similar. Aston are broadening the design philosophy, which I approve.
OK, its perhaps arguably not quite as pretty as the old Rapide, but the old rapide was a bit of a wallflower, compared to the new Rapide which announces its presence well and justifiably.
I would have it over the new DB9 because it has all the sex appeal of the coupe, but can carry four people. If I had one, I would enjoy taking more then one friend at a time for a blast down a B road. When popping to the pub for lunch or to a day out with some friends. I would want to take the Aston, not have to take my Range or BMW saloon because I didnt have the room in my coupe. Share the fun I say, the Rapide allows that.
Also when only two of you are in the car, with the back seats down its a great comfortable tourer with good luggage space.
Yes there are wider issues at Aston which only HUGE investment will resolve, but this particular thread is about the new Rapide, and I for one approve of it.
You can't please everyone, and in doing so you please no one!
Personally I like the new front end, it's striking rather then just being a DB9 alike face. It's certainly works better for me then the large grill of the V12 Zagato! More structured.
The V12 Zagato was said to suggest future Aston design paths, this proves that. As long as not every car gets the new larger grill, I like it. Dont forget the DB7 Vantage Zagato had a large grill and the DB-AR1! This is not a new style!
After all, 'There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion'.
With the new Vanquish, updated DB9, Rapide and V8 Vantage they all now very much have their own personalities and faces. Were as before DB9, DBS and Rapide were VERY similar. Aston are broadening the design philosophy, which I approve.
OK, its perhaps arguably not quite as pretty as the old Rapide, but the old rapide was a bit of a wallflower, compared to the new Rapide which announces its presence well and justifiably.
I would have it over the new DB9 because it has all the sex appeal of the coupe, but can carry four people. If I had one, I would enjoy taking more then one friend at a time for a blast down a B road. When popping to the pub for lunch or to a day out with some friends. I would want to take the Aston, not have to take my Range or BMW saloon because I didnt have the room in my coupe. Share the fun I say, the Rapide allows that.
Also when only two of you are in the car, with the back seats down its a great comfortable tourer with good luggage space.
Yes there are wider issues at Aston which only HUGE investment will resolve, but this particular thread is about the new Rapide, and I for one approve of it.
LuS1fer said:
Don't Morgan rebut this assertion though? They happily run along catering to their own market for people who want Morgans.
You've answered your own question."They happily run along catering to their own market"; AM don't do this - they operate in a market place filled with direct competition.
Morgan make cars but trying to find a direct competitor is a challenge. The Classic range competes with vintage classics (as in people who want to buy an old car) and the Aero and M3W ranges have equally vague competitors - nothing obvious and certainly nothing direct (or mass produced).
Lightningman said:
You've answered your own question.
"They happily run along catering to their own market"; AM don't do this - they operate in a market place filled with direct competition.
Morgan make cars but trying to find a direct competitor is a challenge. The Classic range competes with vintage classics (as in people who want to buy an old car) and the Aero and M3W ranges have equally vague competitors - nothing obvious and certainly nothing direct (or mass produced).
Yes, I sort of realise that but for me, if I wanted an Aston, nothing else would do and I suspect the same is true of Ferrari and Porsche customers though the time advantage of the 911 makes it far more likeley they will keep buying 911s."They happily run along catering to their own market"; AM don't do this - they operate in a market place filled with direct competition.
Morgan make cars but trying to find a direct competitor is a challenge. The Classic range competes with vintage classics (as in people who want to buy an old car) and the Aero and M3W ranges have equally vague competitors - nothing obvious and certainly nothing direct (or mass produced).
I have never been convinced that most people buy cars like this other than based on a longing for the marque?
B10 said:
ghibbett said:
B10 said:
Has production moved from Austria to Gaydon?
Unfortunately I suppose you are going to go all Clarkson and talk about Austin Maxis or rusting Lancias.
toppstuff said:
Speedraser said:
Production moved to Gaydon because AM thought they'd continue to sell 7000 cars/year like they did in '07, so wouldn't have capacity at Gaydon to build the Rapide. Obviously, they got this wrong, in no small part due a bit of an issue with the economy.
With respect, that is nonsense.Rapide launched in 2010. Problems with the economy were well known by then. Missing targets by a mile is therefore no excuse.
Besides, over the same period, rivals Bentley, for example, have been posting record sales INCREASES not decreases. Bentley sales INCREASED by 22% in 2012 over 2011 to more than 8500 cars. Aston are making cars in the dozens and the hundreds. This is because cars are sold in other markets, most notably Asia, where apparently next to no-one wants the Rapide ( or any other Aston, sadly, compared to Bentley or Royce
).It is a shame. But it is not right to be an apologist for AM's poor performance and the poor decisions of their board. If they made cars people wanted, sales would be higher. Other brands are not suffering in the same way.
Aston got it wrong. I hope they don't pay the price.
The management team need to pull their finger out, or recruit someone who knows what they are doing, before we lose them. And we would all hate that.
Edited by toppstuff on Thursday 24th January 08:39
, you'd know I am not an apologist for Aston management's decisions.When do you think the decision was made to build the Rapide? Surely not in 2010, when "problems with the economy were well known." The decision was, of course, made years earlier, when the car was in development and sales were booming. The Rapide was first shown in early 2006 -- as AM sales were growing very rapidly (pun slightly intended) and the economy was great. Peak sales were in 2007, when development was clearly already well underway and Gaydon had limited additional capacity. Obviously they got it wrong, as I stated in my post. But the plan to manufacture the Rapide away from Gaydon, and the related contracts, were already firmly established by the time the economic problems "were well known."
Bentley sales also got crushed when the economy crashed. Now they are recovering nicely. AM, until last year, remained profitable. Initial sales of the new DB9 are, supposedly, very good (deservedly so, IMO). Personally, while I obviously want Aston to build enough cars to remain a healthy company, I wouldn't want to see them produced in large numbers -- their rarity is one of the reasons that seeing an Aston is an event, and why owning one is very special.
Speedraser said:
The level of ignorance on display in some of the posts here is staggering.
I'm 5'11 and fit fine in the back of the Rapide. No, I wouldn't want to spend 6 hours in the rear seat, but the rear seats are entirely useable seats.
Comparing the Rapide to Panameras generally is absurd. You can't buy a Rapide with a VW diesel V6, happily. They only overlap in any way at the very top of the Panamera range. IMO, the Rapide is so much better to drive that the choice would be easy even if the Rapide weren't a far more special machine, which it is. Mass-produced vs. hand craftsmanship. While I think the Rapide looked better before these revisions, it's still gorgeous. The Panamera isn't.
Production moved to Gaydon because AM thought they'd continue to sell 7000 cars/year like they did in '07, so wouldn't have capacity at Gaydon to build the Rapide. Obviously, they got this wrong, in no small part due a bit of an issue with the economy.
The different Astons models look similar to each other, but they are certainly not the same and they're absolutely gorgeous. M-Bs look similar to each other, BMWs look similar to each other, Audis look virtually identical to each other. If you can't tell the Aston models apart, pay a little more attention -- it's really not that hard.
Well said, what AM need is a slighly toned/scaled down version of the one77. The one77 is unmistakeably AM and this is the shape they should be going for. The new vanquish is too similar to a dbs in form to be viewed as something new, a smaller slightly less dramatic one77 called the 007 would save the day. I'm 5'11 and fit fine in the back of the Rapide. No, I wouldn't want to spend 6 hours in the rear seat, but the rear seats are entirely useable seats.
Comparing the Rapide to Panameras generally is absurd. You can't buy a Rapide with a VW diesel V6, happily. They only overlap in any way at the very top of the Panamera range. IMO, the Rapide is so much better to drive that the choice would be easy even if the Rapide weren't a far more special machine, which it is. Mass-produced vs. hand craftsmanship. While I think the Rapide looked better before these revisions, it's still gorgeous. The Panamera isn't.
Production moved to Gaydon because AM thought they'd continue to sell 7000 cars/year like they did in '07, so wouldn't have capacity at Gaydon to build the Rapide. Obviously, they got this wrong, in no small part due a bit of an issue with the economy.
The different Astons models look similar to each other, but they are certainly not the same and they're absolutely gorgeous. M-Bs look similar to each other, BMWs look similar to each other, Audis look virtually identical to each other. If you can't tell the Aston models apart, pay a little more attention -- it's really not that hard.
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