RE: Group Lotus PLC may be wound up
Discussion
On a purely objective view, it is common knowledge that Lotus is not doing very well. In a position where this is known, firm, evidential acts, such as industry suppliers taking the company to court, become newsworthy against the backdrop of the company's situation.
In that sense, it's absolutely fair that it is reported.
In that sense, it's absolutely fair that it is reported.
A few days into a new job at a large pension management company we had bailiffs show up over an unpaid electricity bill at one of our rented properties. At the time we owned something like £500m in property and were negotiating to buy more worth tens of millions. The bailiffs were concerned with a couple of hundred quid. This was only a few years after the Maxwell affair- can you imagine the fallout if a paper had run the headline “Bailiffs go into pension scheme”?
I also had an insolvency petition land on my desk when I worked at a large bank in 2008. The petition was over a trivial amount, certainly under £1k, and concerned a bill that had already been paid- the supplier had got a bit over enthusiastic with his demands for payment. Can you imagine the fallout, in the climate of the time, if a website had run the headline “XXX bank to be wound up?”?
These headlines can do massive damage.
I also had an insolvency petition land on my desk when I worked at a large bank in 2008. The petition was over a trivial amount, certainly under £1k, and concerned a bill that had already been paid- the supplier had got a bit over enthusiastic with his demands for payment. Can you imagine the fallout, in the climate of the time, if a website had run the headline “XXX bank to be wound up?”?
These headlines can do massive damage.
10 Pence Short said:
On a purely objective view, it is common knowledge that Lotus is not doing very well.
Is it? What is real, what is just gossip and speculation? We know that ownership and management has been changing , but that is all. Nothing official has been said. If there is doubt here, then the whole narrative is based on heresay.Even then, taking this to one side, one has to ask what is achieved by posting the thread anyway?
Given that the author, having posted it, then felt the need to go back and correct / update it, it begs the question that if he had to go back and correct it, would he have posted it in the first place if he had the right knowledge?
I suspect that the author did'nt really understand what the winding up order was really about and lacked experience or knowledge of credit control, thinking he sniffed a story when really there was not one.
As it is now, with UPDATED written all over it, it just looks like bad journalism anyway. It would have been better to simply take it down IMO.
Alfa numeric said:
A few days into a new job at a large pension management company we had bailiffs show up over an unpaid electricity bill at one of our rented properties. At the time we owned something like £500m in property and were negotiating to buy more worth tens of millions. The bailiffs were concerned with a couple of hundred quid. This was only a few years after the Maxwell affair- can you imagine the fallout if a paper had run the headline “Bailiffs go into pension scheme”?
I also had an insolvency petition land on my desk when I worked at a large bank in 2008. The petition was over a trivial amount, certainly under £1k, and concerned a bill that had already been paid- the supplier had got a bit over enthusiastic with his demands for payment. Can you imagine the fallout, in the climate of the time, if a website had run the headline “XXX bank to be wound up?”?
These headlines can do massive damage.
+1I also had an insolvency petition land on my desk when I worked at a large bank in 2008. The petition was over a trivial amount, certainly under £1k, and concerned a bill that had already been paid- the supplier had got a bit over enthusiastic with his demands for payment. Can you imagine the fallout, in the climate of the time, if a website had run the headline “XXX bank to be wound up?”?
These headlines can do massive damage.
Precisely.
Scrof said:
I can assure you, no boots have been stuck in anywhere! The story might have read a touch negatively in terms of its tone but that was its only sin. As for the facts, we reported that Lotus had appeared on a winding-up list - a fact - and also that the company had assured us the petition wouldn't result in liquidation - borne out by its statement this afternoon. We also stated that it wasn't clear what this all meant for the company - which it wasn't at the time. It is now, and the story has been updated to reflect that.
You did say they "could be wound up". On the basis of what Lotus told you, that the hearing was a hangover from a settled dispute, it should have been clear that they could not be wound up. That is the problem with the article as I saw it. It also said that it wasn't clear whether it was a voluntary action, which again, given what Lotus had said, should have had no part in the article. It was all a bit 'Daily Mail' sensationalism and won't have done Lotus any good, so please be careful.i can see both sides, and do think that PH should change the title now to remove doubt to the casual glancer, but do think the original post did report the facts as best as were known at the time - albeit a bit dramatically!, and had attempted to demonstrate communication with Lotus.
But the real root cause of the problem lies firmly at the doors of Lotus - poor communication is what leads to these types of events in the first place. If they (a) paid their suppliers on time, (b) communicated clearly when there are disputes, (c) removed doubt in the market about their future vis-a-vee Hicom or whatever their called and shared the long term vision so suppliers, customers, and the press could not sit there with one hand on the panic button when a bill isn't paid or when your car is not delivered etc etc.
Remember, if the strategy and direction/investment was clear, and bills had been paid on time, then the top 2" of the PH website yesterday may have been dedicated to something else - perhaps the fact that TVR moulds have been found in Antarctica in the exact same spot as where that infamous double decker bus was found as reported by the Sunday Sport :-) - copied below for those of you too young to remember !!!
But the real root cause of the problem lies firmly at the doors of Lotus - poor communication is what leads to these types of events in the first place. If they (a) paid their suppliers on time, (b) communicated clearly when there are disputes, (c) removed doubt in the market about their future vis-a-vee Hicom or whatever their called and shared the long term vision so suppliers, customers, and the press could not sit there with one hand on the panic button when a bill isn't paid or when your car is not delivered etc etc.
Remember, if the strategy and direction/investment was clear, and bills had been paid on time, then the top 2" of the PH website yesterday may have been dedicated to something else - perhaps the fact that TVR moulds have been found in Antarctica in the exact same spot as where that infamous double decker bus was found as reported by the Sunday Sport :-) - copied below for those of you too young to remember !!!
Edited by oilit on Tuesday 19th March 10:13
Garlick said:
He did 'a spokesperson from Lotus told PistonHeads categorically that that won't be the case.'
I think he was careful to add that nothing will happen, even in the sub head. It's news, news is reported and he contacted Lotus for comment.
The story was updated as news came in, and was titled as such, so it's fair.
I'm going to elect to make this my last comment on the matter as I don't wish to fall out with you or anybody else on the PH staff.I think he was careful to add that nothing will happen, even in the sub head. It's news, news is reported and he contacted Lotus for comment.
The story was updated as news came in, and was titled as such, so it's fair.
If Lotus has confirmed that this 'categorically won't be the case' then the headline seems deliberately more damaging. If they've officially said that they're not being wound up then publishing anything that suggests otherwise is damaging. People pay more attention to headlines.
oilit said:
i can see both sides, and do think that PH should change the title now to remove doubt to the casual glancer, but do think the original post did report the facts as best as were known at the time - albeit a bit dramatically!, and had attempted to demonstrate communication with Lotus.
But the real root cause of the problem lies firmly at the doors of Lotus - poor communication is what leads to these types of events in the first place. If they (a) paid their suppliers on time, (b) communicated clearly when there are disputes, (c) removed doubt in the market about their future vis-a-vee Hicom or whatever their called and shared the long term vision so suppliers, customers, and the press could not sit there with one hand on the panic button when a bill isn't paid or when your car is not delivered etc etc.
Remember, if the strategy and direction/investment was clear, and bills had been paid on time, then the top 2" of the PH website yesterday may have been dedicated to something else - perhaps the fact that TVR moulds have been found in Antarctica in the exact same spot as where that infamous double decker bus was found as reported by the Sunday Sport :-) - copied below for those of you too young to remember !!!
Many people who petition for winding up do it as an abuse of process. Say I say you owe me £1000 and you say you only owe me £800. That dispute needs to be dealt with properly. But I could apply to the court for winding up and it gets listed. You then say "abuse of process, I only owe you £800, not £1,000". We then both agree that you will pay me £850. You decide to give me the extra £50 because you can't be bothered with the hassle. We then agree that the court proceedings can end. Are you the bad guy in that scenario?But the real root cause of the problem lies firmly at the doors of Lotus - poor communication is what leads to these types of events in the first place. If they (a) paid their suppliers on time, (b) communicated clearly when there are disputes, (c) removed doubt in the market about their future vis-a-vee Hicom or whatever their called and shared the long term vision so suppliers, customers, and the press could not sit there with one hand on the panic button when a bill isn't paid or when your car is not delivered etc etc.
Remember, if the strategy and direction/investment was clear, and bills had been paid on time, then the top 2" of the PH website yesterday may have been dedicated to something else - perhaps the fact that TVR moulds have been found in Antarctica in the exact same spot as where that infamous double decker bus was found as reported by the Sunday Sport :-) - copied below for those of you too young to remember !!!
Edited by oilit on Tuesday 19th March 10:13
8vFTW said:
The demise of Lotus is inevitable. These forums will be hilarious when it actually happens.
Well if you want to have a good old guffaw about the end of one of the lynchpins of British motoring and one of the few true 'cars for enthusiasts' company and the unemployment and stagnation that will result if your inevitable scenario arises go ahead.Alternatively, stop with all the negative comments and sniping people and give them a chance. Hell, they could have just seen all the negativity and decided not to develop the new Exige, but thank goodness they did. The Evora won Evo's car of the year for goodness sake and I would far rather trust than panel of reviewers than several thousand people on these forums, but as someone else said, sadly not that many people care about actual driving pleasure, or their pleasure is not the same as that the Evo guys would have sought out. To that extent at least I accept that Lotus will never take on the giants, but I hope they can continue to exist and serve those that 'get' the marque and appreciate what they turn out.
zebedee said:
Well if you want to have a good old guffaw about the end of one of the lynchpins of British motoring and one of the few true 'cars for enthusiasts' company and the unemployment and stagnation that will result if your inevitable scenario arises go ahead.
Never mind, we can all go and buy a VAG appliance instead.
otolith said:
Captain Muppet said:
The demise of everything is inevitable, because of thermodynamics.
Will there still be some deluded fool patching up s
tty old Golfs after the heat death of the universe, I wonder?
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