RE: TVR sold to British buyer?
Discussion
RichB said:
SuperBaaaad said:
Twincam16 said:
The problem with using an LS engine is that it puts whatever they come up with in the firing line of the Corvette, which will probably undercut it in every LHD market and make it look a bit pointless, especially once you've factored in the enormous GM dealer network.
Whilst looks are entirely subjective, Corvettes are pretty ugly and LHD. I still think the TVR brand has a lot of equity, and were a new model to appear, LS engined or not it would sell.I'd welcome a return of TVR in any form, but IMO they need the Jaguar V8, the modern equivalent of a Rover V8.
I reckon in order not to be too ambitious, they need to have one model upon which variations can be made. A two-seater sports car, offered as a coupé or convertible, and everything else is in the setup, so it could be set up like a Chimaera with friendlier suspension and a 4.2-litre normally-aspirated version of the V8, right up to a modern take on the Griffith 500 with the supercharged 5-litre.
agreed... the name is only worth something if they start building cars again. I would love to think that in 3-3 yrs a new car might be built even if its a rebodied old model.
gsuk1 said:
I don't see any reason a group will buy TVR without at least the intention of getting it up and running again.
Also they're not going to invest that much money without some confidence that they can achieve that goal.
Sounds promising to me.
However it'll be interesting to see if/what/when they come up with something.
I'm not sure how TVR cars will fit into the current car market, and if they will even be allowed (under legislation) to build the cars they want to build...
Also they're not going to invest that much money without some confidence that they can achieve that goal.
Sounds promising to me.
However it'll be interesting to see if/what/when they come up with something.
I'm not sure how TVR cars will fit into the current car market, and if they will even be allowed (under legislation) to build the cars they want to build...
900T-R said:
...JLR would of course be an ideal candidate, being local(ish) and having the right sort of engines & technologies in their portfolio - short of a manual 'box to go with their V6 and V8 engines
If you were JLR would you want your engine going in a different manufacturers car that would give a better performance/price ratio than any of your cars? I suppose it would depend if they thought it could happen without loosing them any sales (ie the other manufacturer was sufficiently different)...
Skyedriver said:
Sadly the world has moved on a long way since the turn of the century when TVR was king of the road.
Any new TVR would need to be substantially different to the Chimaera/Griffith Tuscan etc era
But many would argue the world has moved on a long way in the false direction for people like us - towards ever more complex cars that give the driver less in terms of involvement and purity - all for knocking off a few more seconds of Nordschleife lap times, and pandering to the masses with money who want a 'prestige' car rather than a true sports car. Any new TVR would need to be substantially different to the Chimaera/Griffith Tuscan etc era
Beyond Caterham and Morgan there's not much out there for people like us anymore, and none do it with the style, relative everyday practicality and shock/bonkers factor that TVR offered.
Back in 1994, a Morgan Plus Eight was less money than a TVR Chimaera. I'd say a modern take on the Griff/Chim market, offering 350 or so bhp in a car weighing around a tonne but with a roof that you can put on in a matter of seconds and then offers snug, dry and non-drafty surroundings like TVRs with the targa panel roof arrangement always did, a boot that deserves the name, a good driving position and great styling, pitched at the current Plus 8's price of around £75-80K would be a very viable niche product.
Frimley111R said:
Even then it'd be so tough. For example, Lotus have to put a 2 stage air bag into Evoras if they want to keep selling them in the USA (for stupid Americans who don't wear seat belts!). Lotus reckon the total cost of doing so is £4m! Now I am not saying TVR would want to/be able to sell in the USA but I am sure this is one of many examples facing car manufacturers, big, small and start up all over the world.
I could see TVR becoming like a Morgan though, making 'classic' sports cars the old way (but better!). That could work I think.
A Morgan model or at the other end a Noble model would probably be feasible. I could see TVR becoming like a Morgan though, making 'classic' sports cars the old way (but better!). That could work I think.
So often these days though investors want a 5 year exit plan so building on an existing framework of a grounded company would permit an easier exit to a larger manufacturer down the line?
RichardD said:
900T-R said:
...JLR would of course be an ideal candidate, being local(ish) and having the right sort of engines & technologies in their portfolio - short of a manual 'box to go with their V6 and V8 engines
If you were JLR would you want your engine going in a different manufacturers car that would give a better performance/price ratio than any of your cars? I suppose it would depend if they thought it could happen without loosing them any sales (ie the other manufacturer was sufficiently different)...
if i was able to spec a new TVR now, i'd want the SP6 in it with all the kinks ironed out. 3.6, 4.0, 4.3 and 4.5 variants all developed to the point i'd have confidence in them. just keep diesels out!
RichardD said:
If you were JLR would you want your engine going in a different manufacturers car that would give a better performance/price ratio than any of your cars?
I suppose it would depend if they thought it could happen without loosing them any sales (ie the other manufacturer was sufficiently different)...
Well, of course one could say the same about Wiessmann and BMW Z4/M cars et al...I suppose it would depend if they thought it could happen without loosing them any sales (ie the other manufacturer was sufficiently different)...
Thing is:
The TVR/Morgan/Wiessmann etc. sort of customer is not going to buy something that weighs half as much again, has electric power steering and an auto gearbox. The typical Jaguar customer is not going to buy something from a tiny manufacturer and compromise on refinement, toys, pose value, peace of mind serviceing/warranties etc.
BMW/Audi/Jaguar engineers could never get away with building cars like the low volume manufacturers do, their status as major manufacturers bound within Cecra agreements, their shareholders and board of directors etc. would forbid it anyway - but talk to these guys and almost to a man they would like to do that sort of stuff anyway. That is what makes them help out small-time sports car manufacturers - personal interest, shared passion and the challenge of doing grassroots level sort of technical stuff.
Edited by 900T-R on Friday 7th June 12:43
Pat H said:
Garlick said:
Would you buy a TVR 'Elise' if it was priced similarly to the Lotus? I mean actually buy one if the two dealers were side by side.
I have no idea if they will produce a car like this, I'm just curious.
Nope, definitely not.I have no idea if they will produce a car like this, I'm just curious.
The days of the Grantura, the 1600 Vixen and the 1600M are long gone.
TVR has evolved and the DNA now contains a thundering great engine as a key ingredient.
Lotus has survived on handling and heritage. We forgive them their often modest engines.
A new TVR needs to be more Griffith 500 than Elise.
But whatever happens in the future, the fact that the intellectual property is back under domestic control is a step in the right direction.
900T-R said:
The TVR/Morgan/Wiessmann etc. sort of customer is not going to buy something that weighs half as much again, has electric power steering and an auto gearbox. The typical Jaguar customer is not going to buy something from a tiny manufacturer and compromise on refinement, toys, pose value, peace of mind serviceing/warranties etc.
Very true, and is the only glimmer of hope for this scenario. Sadly I can't see Jaguar going for it, but it would be a lovely marriage if it happened. If all of the info coming through is correct that N Smolensky has now sold the rights of TVR to a British concern headed by Les Edgar then perhaps the idea I have floating about inside my noggin is the way to go forward for the rebirth of TVR sports cars.
CWR cars are already developing the Titan based on the old style shape of the M series, if Les Edgar were to approach CWR and negotiate a (possible) joint venture between CWR and the new TVR sports car company this might give TVR a foothold in the car building world. CWR have done a lot of development work on the Titan.
According to the CWR website, TVR Parts and David Gerald TVR merged. Now as David Gerald is already a TVR servicing specialist and was at one time a sales outlet, it would also give the new TVR car company an outlet in which to start selling any new products.
http://www.cwrcars.com/showroom/index.php/news
As the owner of a 3000M turbo SE widebody I love the shape of the Titan. The new TVR would have to start out from scratch, starting small and hopefully getting bigger. But I personally think a joint venture between CWR and TVR is the way forward. CWR have obviously got the expertise when it comes to body moulds, fiber glass and must have a research and development unit that could be adapted to the possible small scale production of new TVR sports cars.
Just a thought guys
Ron McC
BOF 246T & L627 YAY
CWR cars are already developing the Titan based on the old style shape of the M series, if Les Edgar were to approach CWR and negotiate a (possible) joint venture between CWR and the new TVR sports car company this might give TVR a foothold in the car building world. CWR have done a lot of development work on the Titan.
According to the CWR website, TVR Parts and David Gerald TVR merged. Now as David Gerald is already a TVR servicing specialist and was at one time a sales outlet, it would also give the new TVR car company an outlet in which to start selling any new products.
http://www.cwrcars.com/showroom/index.php/news
As the owner of a 3000M turbo SE widebody I love the shape of the Titan. The new TVR would have to start out from scratch, starting small and hopefully getting bigger. But I personally think a joint venture between CWR and TVR is the way forward. CWR have obviously got the expertise when it comes to body moulds, fiber glass and must have a research and development unit that could be adapted to the possible small scale production of new TVR sports cars.
Just a thought guys
Ron McC
BOF 246T & L627 YAY
Dear mr Leslie,
My sincerest congratulations on your courageous act.
I would very gladly see this become reality. However, I'm warning you, it won't be easy to sell British cars in Great Britain, as most of your fellow Britons rather see german badges on cars. Expect to hear some reliability criticism whitin a week or two, before any car has been revealed yet, and of course the old game of finding what car you got the unintresting bits from. I really hope you succeed in what I hope your intentions are. Good luck.
My sincerest congratulations on your courageous act.
I would very gladly see this become reality. However, I'm warning you, it won't be easy to sell British cars in Great Britain, as most of your fellow Britons rather see german badges on cars. Expect to hear some reliability criticism whitin a week or two, before any car has been revealed yet, and of course the old game of finding what car you got the unintresting bits from. I really hope you succeed in what I hope your intentions are. Good luck.
900T-R said:
Well, of course one could say the same about Wiessmann and BMW Z4/M cars et al...
Thing is:
The TVR/Morgan/Wiessmann etc. sort of customer is not going to buy something that weighs half as much again, has electric power steering and an auto gearbox. The typical Jaguar customer is not going to buy something from a tiny manufacturer and compromise on refinement, toys, pose value, peace of mind serviceing/warranties etc.
BMW/Audi/Jaguar engineers could never get away with building cars like the low volume manufacturers do, their status as major manufacturers bound within Cecra agreements, their shareholders and board of directors etc. would forbid it anyway - but talk to these guys and almost to a man they would like to do that sort of stuff anyway. That is what makes them help out small-time sports car manufacturers - personal interest, shared passion and the challenge of doing grassroots level sort of technical stuff.
Good info regarding the personal level aspect (I'd not thought of the "fustrated corporate engineer" angle), but I still wonder on the corporate business side of any danger of the low volume car getting compared in the press to its engines donor car.Thing is:
The TVR/Morgan/Wiessmann etc. sort of customer is not going to buy something that weighs half as much again, has electric power steering and an auto gearbox. The typical Jaguar customer is not going to buy something from a tiny manufacturer and compromise on refinement, toys, pose value, peace of mind serviceing/warranties etc.
BMW/Audi/Jaguar engineers could never get away with building cars like the low volume manufacturers do, their status as major manufacturers bound within Cecra agreements, their shareholders and board of directors etc. would forbid it anyway - but talk to these guys and almost to a man they would like to do that sort of stuff anyway. That is what makes them help out small-time sports car manufacturers - personal interest, shared passion and the challenge of doing grassroots level sort of technical stuff.
What I'd like to see is some other ridiculous piece of naturally-aspirated fibreglass tomfoolery to do snarling battle with the F-type three or four years down the line,while costing a fair bit less and being a whole lot sillier.
However, what we'll get will be one of three things: something pleasantly barmy, but completely unaffordable to anyone who doesn't have £200,000 to burn; something those outside the elite can actually afford, but with the standard electronic driving aids and a generally much more sensible air, a kind of TVRINO that just represents yet another 911 or Cayman rival, complete with fundamentally similar attitude to safety and real world usability (not that there's anything <I>wrong</I> with safety and real world usability, but this is TVR, dash it!), or absolutely nothing at all because whoever bought it runs out of money. So yeah, I ain't exactly confident.
However, what we'll get will be one of three things: something pleasantly barmy, but completely unaffordable to anyone who doesn't have £200,000 to burn; something those outside the elite can actually afford, but with the standard electronic driving aids and a generally much more sensible air, a kind of TVRINO that just represents yet another 911 or Cayman rival, complete with fundamentally similar attitude to safety and real world usability (not that there's anything <I>wrong</I> with safety and real world usability, but this is TVR, dash it!), or absolutely nothing at all because whoever bought it runs out of money. So yeah, I ain't exactly confident.
JonRB said:
The Speed6 engine is actually an absolutely awesome engine now it has been completely sorted and the problems with the original design have been identified and rectified. There is nothing crap about it at all.
Maybe you could take your regurgitated second-hand Clarkson-inspired opinions elsewhere? Or get your facts right. Either works for me.
+1 Maybe you could take your regurgitated second-hand Clarkson-inspired opinions elsewhere? Or get your facts right. Either works for me.
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