RE: New Civic Type R details

RE: New Civic Type R details

Author
Discussion

conanius

748 posts

200 months

Saturday 27th July 2013
quotequote all
Quite. My S2000 was faster down the long straight at Bedford than a friends remapped 270 odd BHP LCR. Peak figures mean nothing on their own, its the overall package. The S2000 was, and still is an absolute peach.

I haven't had my S2000 for nearly 3 years now, but currently have a Fabia VRS Estate with one of those 1.4 Twincharger 180 PS engines (the joys of getting older and having responsibility?... oh and a dog.)

Its ok, it could do with a bit more power, a bit less lean in corners, and a bit more feel through the steering wheel, but fundamentally, its pretty much opposite ends of the scale to the S2000.

I'd be interested whether Honda follow Ford and Skoda into the 'Warm Estate' market. Certainly if the new CTR has an engine that can sing and comes in estate, it will definitely make my 'test drive' list.

Newer engines just don't have the lungs of old ones. I'm pretty sure my old XUDT 306 D Turbo sounded more interesting than most of the stuff rolling off production lines these days frown

Mr Whippy

29,131 posts

243 months

Saturday 27th July 2013
quotequote all
NoelWatson said:
Mr Whippy said:
RocketRabbit said:
Alfa159Ti said:
Thats fine in theory, but clearly in real world driving
I love this real world driving thing. When I had my S2000, in the real world no less, I could triple the torque to the rear wheels in under a second by manipulating a lever in my left hand. This i'd go straight to the car's power band, thus i'd accelerate nice and quickly.

Never did I think 'Hmm, 4th gear at 45mph and I need to overtake - engine could do with a bit more torque because changing gear on one of the best manual boxes ever is such a chore....'

I wrote this article several years ago after getting annoyed at the 'Top Gear Torques' brigade :
You don't even need to write a big article.

Just ignore torque, look at power. Tadaaa!

An S2000 has 240bhp so it's about as fast as other cars with 240bhp and similar weight.

I guess that is why power is the headline figure smile

Dave
Depends on shape of the power curve and gearing.
The shape of the power curve is generally quite linear with rpm.

There is variance but it's generally slight for all intents and purposes.

Gearing is usually set appropriately for the power of a vehicle, very few are over or under geared.


So given gearing is proportional to power, and power is generally proportional to engine speed %, you can generally say that power to weight figure tells you enough for most cars on-road accelerative ability overall.

Going into any more detail than that and you need a pile of details and they generally get so complicated as a picture that they don't tell you anything significant.


It's too easy to get bogged down in numbers when a single power to weight tells you all you need to know of a cars capability.

If a driver doesn't like revving an engine then that is an entirely different kettle of fish to revvy vs torquey engines and their relative performance differences.

Dave

NoelWatson

11,710 posts

244 months

Saturday 27th July 2013
quotequote all
Mr Whippy said:
NoelWatson said:
Mr Whippy said:
RocketRabbit said:
Alfa159Ti said:
Thats fine in theory, but clearly in real world driving
I love this real world driving thing. When I had my S2000, in the real world no less, I could triple the torque to the rear wheels in under a second by manipulating a lever in my left hand. This i'd go straight to the car's power band, thus i'd accelerate nice and quickly.

Never did I think 'Hmm, 4th gear at 45mph and I need to overtake - engine could do with a bit more torque because changing gear on one of the best manual boxes ever is such a chore....'

I wrote this article several years ago after getting annoyed at the 'Top Gear Torques' brigade :
You don't even need to write a big article.

Just ignore torque, look at power. Tadaaa!

An S2000 has 240bhp so it's about as fast as other cars with 240bhp and similar weight.

I guess that is why power is the headline figure smile

Dave
Depends on shape of the power curve and gearing.
The shape of the power curve is generally quite linear with rpm.

There is variance but it's generally slight for all intents and purposes.

Gearing is usually set appropriately for the power of a vehicle, very few are over or under geared.


So given gearing is proportional to power, and power is generally proportional to engine speed %, you can generally say that power to weight figure tells you enough for most cars on-road accelerative ability overall.

Going into any more detail than that and you need a pile of details and they generally get so complicated as a picture that they don't tell you anything significant.


It's too easy to get bogged down in numbers when a single power to weight tells you all you need to know of a cars capability.

If a driver doesn't like revving an engine then that is an entirely different kettle of fish to revvy vs torquey engines and their relative performance differences.

Dave
Gearing: Was thinking more about gaps between gears - for example early NSX had very tall second that hindered acceleration
Power curve - agree that curve is linear, but some cars develop peak power close to the limiter whereas others have a power curve that is pretty flat beyond peak power to the limiter (NSX has a range of ~15 flywheel bhp from 6500-8000rpm. Something like an Aston 4.3 will have a much greater difference over corresponding percentage of revs.

Kozy

3,169 posts

220 months

Sunday 28th July 2013
quotequote all
NoelWatson said:
(NSX has a range of ~15 flywheel bhp from 6500-8000rpm. Something like an Aston 4.3 will have a much greater difference over corresponding percentage of revs.
Is that true? All over VTEC engines are pretty much a linear increase from about 2000rpm to redline...

NoelWatson

11,710 posts

244 months

Sunday 28th July 2013
quotequote all
Kozy said:
NoelWatson said:
(NSX has a range of ~15 flywheel bhp from 6500-8000rpm. Something like an Aston 4.3 will have a much greater difference over corresponding percentage of revs.
Is that true? All over VTEC engines are pretty much a linear increase from about 2000rpm to redline...
It was on the 3.2s when we went to SRR (with non standard exhaust/intake) at SRR. Peak power around 7250 with little tail off until the limiter.

Otispunkmeyer

12,662 posts

157 months

Sunday 28th July 2013
quotequote all
Not sure if this has been mentioned but I just got the Vertu Honda mag in the post and they had a little square about the new Type R and a picture to go with it. They say Nurburgring testing this year. Car doesn't look bad in the photo either, but its quite a low res shot and is likely a rendering. Looks good though, diffuser style rear bumper and a rear wing not too dissimilar to the last type R's effort.

richtea78

5,574 posts

160 months

Monday 29th July 2013
quotequote all
Was reading on another forum that the new Type R is already apparently being tested at the Nurburgring and has come back for more development.

Bladedancer

1,311 posts

198 months

Saturday 3rd August 2013
quotequote all
Ali_T said:
It was a decent engine, but not as good as the F20C, B16A or B18C IMHO.
I was referring more to the fact it powered last CTR.

Bladedancer

1,311 posts

198 months

Saturday 3rd August 2013
quotequote all
CraigyMc said:
Not so. In 2014 each car only gets 5 engines for the whole season, and each of those engines will have to run for at least 4000km.

Renault has already been talking to LMP1 teams about supplying them since the distances just became sensible (you need just over 5000km for an LPM1 engine at Le Mans).

C
I get what you're saying but still, 5k km still isn't much better.

CraigyMc

16,505 posts

238 months

Sunday 4th August 2013
quotequote all
Bladedancer said:
CraigyMc said:
Not so. In 2014 each car only gets 5 engines for the whole season, and each of those engines will have to run for at least 4000km.

Renault has already been talking to LMP1 teams about supplying them since the distances just became sensible (you need just over 5000km for an LPM1 engine at Le Mans).

C
I get what you're saying but still, 5k km still isn't much better.
Put in context, it's about the same as the rebuild interval on a radical engine (circa £5K inc vat every 30 hours, for the 1.5 busa)

C

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

200 months

Sunday 4th August 2013
quotequote all
Article said:
active suspension set-up that takes the novel approach of only being applied to the back axle. Which is a world first, incidentally.
emm citroen xantia activa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQT7IMHvBGo

Phil117

1,538 posts

141 months

Sunday 4th August 2013
quotequote all
And this is what the Mugen version looks like sat in the Honda car park in Slough:





Edited by Phil117 on Sunday 4th August 10:17

richtea78

5,574 posts

160 months

Sunday 4th August 2013
quotequote all
You can get that body kit to fit to the 9th Gen I think. It doesn't necessarily mean its a Mugen underneath

DanielSan

18,852 posts

169 months

Sunday 4th August 2013
quotequote all
It's just a styling kit at the moment.

NoelWatson

11,710 posts

244 months

Sunday 4th August 2013
quotequote all
SystemParanoia said:
Article said:
active suspension set-up that takes the novel approach of only being applied to the back axle. Which is a world first, incidentally.
emm citroen xantia activa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQT7IMHvBGo
I thought the Activa was on both axles