RE: Golf R Evo on the way

[JamesD1]

It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks about it (me included) all this speculation only means positives for VW as speculation will turn into intrigue for some... if they get bums in seats to test drive they know some will buy and some wont.

[andrewparker]

wormus said:

andrewparker said:

You've lost me completely.

I've had a bad week and Singha beer is a terrible thing.

Ha, well at least it's the weekend my friend!

[Blue32]

VW need to fit it with this

3.0L 503HP and 560 Nm of torque

So it sounds like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MiaU1L7CrA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugXZoRSPe6A

Instead of a soulless food blender of an engine (I'm bias as I prefer the 3.2 in my MKIV R32)

[ManOpener]

Blue32 said:

VW need to fit it with this

3.0L 503HP and 560 Nm of torque

So it sounds like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MiaU1L7CrA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugXZoRSPe6A

Instead of a soulless food blender of an engine (I'm bias as I prefer the 3.2 in my MKIV R32)

More info on that required, thanks. Narrow angle VR or proper V? Turbo, supercharged?

[KennyGT]

Surely we should be happy that VW and others are still wanting to make cars with increased power and the like. We are petrol heads after all!

[HighwayStar]

hondansx said:

It's funny, everyone on PH believes they are Chris Harris, yet the only time i've witnessed someone indulge in oversteer in public ended up with the car perched on top of a roundabout with a broken wheel...

Barely any modern cars are involving; they lack steering feel and have so much grip that you will never experience the on-edge characteristics on the road. All you're really doing when buying your 'driver's choice' BMW is saying "oh, i COULD drift this - WHENEVER i like - but not now - but i COULD!!

Back in the real world, my car has to do all the mundane things most of the time, and excite me in short doses. My Golf R may be not driving nirvana, but it's sheer breathtaking ground-covering ability is impressive. This ability is - dare i say it - fun! For the majority - who aren't Chris Harris - this means you can drive fast, safely and enjoy yourself.

Personally i like the sound of an even more powerful, lighter version of what i've got. I think the hurdle people need to get over is stop judging cars like this as a 'hot hatch'. This isn't something to compare with a Peugeot 306 GTI - it is car that either ticks your boxes, or doesn't. Name how many NEW cars that:

- Can be specced with things like heated seats, reversing camera etc.
- Will do 0-60 in the 4s
- Get over 30mpg
- Can seat 5 and is genuinely practical
- Won't make you look like a tit driving it
- Get you around in all weather conditions

Pretty good package for £40-45k, i reckon.

Exactly this... I think most 'drivers' bask in the warmth knowing, from spec sheets, reviews, Harris doing his thing, what their car is capable of. Most are not capable of extracting the ultimate performance or even want to. Now and again they'll put their foot in a bit more than usual, putting a grin on their face and that'll be enough. The majority of the time it's boring stuff in traffic with more mundane cars...
I guess the problem VW have is on paper their products promise more than they deliver on the road. I'm in the wait and see camp, more from curiosity than want. I hope they pull a rabbit out the this time.

[NelsonR32]

Blue32 said:

VW need to fit it with thiscloud9

3.0L 503HP and 560 Nm of torque

So it sounds like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MiaU1L7CrA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugXZoRSPe6A

Instead of a soulless food blender of an engine (I'm bias as I prefer the 3.2 in my MKIV R32)

The VR is back. Reminds me of my MKV R32

[Legacywr]

I haven't read the whole thread, but, isn't it a bit too fast, just like the AMG Merc?

[EricE]

The car sounds great on paper, but with all those figures and the talk about carbon fiber body panels, it sounds to me like it’ll be a halo-car with a price somewhere around the Cayman S.

And yes, it may be faster in a straight line, but when it comes to the Cayman S versus VAG-understeer... oh well, too early to tell.

Edited by EricE on Friday 24th January 22:27

[Crafty_]

Can anyone explain to me the attraction of golfs ? I just don't get it. Back a few years ago when the mk5 was current I was informed by various people they were a great fun car to drive and they're so good etc.
So I drove a GTI and an R32 and frankly thought both were boring, the dsg box on the r32 was horrible and the gti did what you asked of it but had no endearing qualities or traits, its like a room being painted white, its just a non entity.
Far as I saw build quality and materials were no better or worse than the products from other manufacturers.
I just don't understand what all the fuss is about.

vanschpunk said:

And this is where Ford will have no choice but to make a Focus RS (or at least a limited variant) in 4wd and with at least 400bhp, to try get one over VW

I don't think that will happen, everyone said that they'd have to go 4wd with the last one to be ahead of all the rest and they went 2wd.

Anyway, here's the problem with the golf.

£16k S model, available with an earth shattering 1.2 petrol engine


£30k Golf R


Swap the wheels and you'll be hard pressed to tell if one drove past.

I don't understand what VW are doing if this R Evo is released, where does it leave Audi and who, seriously is going to spend £40k on a Golf ?
It is interesting, whenever Vauxhall or SEAT release a car all the replies are "£xxk for that? madness" and so on. And here we have whats likely to be a 35-40k car thats not different to Ethel's run about she goes to the shops in and its fine ?

I suppose I'm a bit peed off really -
This is a car that should appeal to me - out of my price range so is something I should aspire to owning but it does nothing for me at all. Like just about everything else out there it doesn't push my buttons.

[b0rk]

Crafty_ said:

Anyway, here's the problem with the golf.

£16k S model, available with an earth shattering 1.2 petrol engine

£30k Golf R

Swap the wheels and you'll be hard pressed to tell if one drove past.

This true of all the hot hatches a 18k base model A3 looks remarkably similar to a 31k S3, 17k 114i ES looks similar to a 31k M135i or 20k A180 SE vs 38k A45.. the general understated aesthetic is part of appeal of such vehicles that whilst the hot versions can go very quickly you wouldn't obviously realise how hot they are externally.

In the uber-hatch world a Golf R evo (or whatever) makes perfect sense based on the basic version being under powered against key rivals. In this new uber hatch world the entry level 300 to 320hp version is intended to sell in volume hence deals and discounts being attached the proper 360hp+ halo versions won't be anywhere nearly as affordable in real terms.

However does anyone honestly think that each car manufacturer hasn't very carefully planned current and future products. BMW have positioned the M135i/M235i to slot a 1M/2M over the top later, Audi the S3 to slot and RS3 on top, VW Golf R to slot something (R evo as it turns out) on top, Mercedes have based on various interviews placed the A45 to allow a A45 black (or similar) to slot in later.

I know quite a few friends and collogues that have stepped down from family cars to small family cars based on just how big modern vehicles are, considering this 30, 40 or 50k hatches do have a place in the market just like "premium" supermini's priced in 20k's.

Golf R Evo vs RS3 I'd expect the RS3 to use the 5-pot 2.5 lump tunned to 400hp(ish) and compare against a 1M and/or A45 black. I would imagine that these will basically be 50k cars once lightly optioned. The Golf high 30's or low 40's depending on how much VW loyalty tax is applied.

[Dave Hedgehog]

Crafty_ said:

Swap the wheels and you'll be hard pressed to tell if one drove past.

I don't understand what VW are doing if this R Evo is released, where does it leave Audi and who, seriously is going to spend £40k on a Golf ?

that's exactly the point. many people want fast cars that are understated so that they do not look like "barry the chav" (vxr / evo / sti drivers) or draw unwanted attention from the police when there out hooning. plus their practical so you can take the family on holiday in them etc

the average joe punter would not be able to the difference between most M/RS/AMG models if you parked them next to a rep version (if there in normal colours)

i would pay 50k for a golf if it was special and rare enough, apart from anything else they can hold their money very well like the focus RS500 or the 1M coupe

[Dave Hedgehog]

Blue32 said:

VW need to fit it with this

3.0L 503HP and 560 Nm of torque

So it sounds like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MiaU1L7CrA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugXZoRSPe6A

Instead of a soulless food blender of an engine (I'm bias as I prefer the 3.2 in my MKIV R32)

yes

yes

and thrice yes

[andrewparker]

Crafty_ said:

£30k Golf R

That's not a Golf R, it's an R-Line, a trim level that isn't available in the UK (yet).

What you're describing is symptomatic of virtually all car manufacturers. I for one can't think of a single mainstream manufacturer whose halo models are hugely different to their run-of-the-mill base models.

[Bezza1969]

I bet it doesn't come in under1400 kilos. All manufacturers bleat on about losing weight but when someone like Autocar weighs them in typical "spec'd" up trim, they come in heavier than the older model. The Mk7 GTI is 1402 KGS for example...and with 4WD I am sure a Golf R will be a bit heavier than that.

[fathomfive]

andrewparker said:

That's not a Golf R, it's an R-Line, a trim level that isn't available in the UK (yet).

What you're describing is symptomatic of virtually all car manufacturers. I for one can't think of a single mainstream manufacturer whose halo models are hugely different to their run-of-the-mill base models.

Nail and head.

The dilution of the halo model effect is unavoidable when you, very successfully, flog trim packages which to look at are pretty much the same.

It then becomes so much harder to add specialness and value. So we are left with remaps, 20" wheels and £10k price hikes.

[Crafty_]

b0rk said:

This true of all the hot hatches a 18k base model A3 looks remarkably similar to a 31k S3, 17k 114i ES looks similar to a 31k M135i or 20k A180 SE vs 38k A45.. the general understated aesthetic is part of appeal of such vehicles that whilst the hot versions can go very quickly you wouldn't obviously realise how hot they are externally.

In the uber-hatch world a Golf R evo (or whatever) makes perfect sense based on the basic version being under powered against key rivals. In this new uber hatch world the entry level 300 to 320hp version is intended to sell in volume hence deals and discounts being attached the proper 360hp+ halo versions won't be anywhere nearly as affordable in real terms.

However does anyone honestly think that each car manufacturer hasn't very carefully planned current and future products. BMW have positioned the M135i/M235i to slot a 1M/2M over the top later, Audi the S3 to slot and RS3 on top, VW Golf R to slot something (R evo as it turns out) on top, Mercedes have based on various interviews placed the A45 to allow a A45 black (or similar) to slot in later.

I know quite a few friends and collogues that have stepped down from family cars to small family cars based on just how big modern vehicles are, considering this 30, 40 or 50k hatches do have a place in the market just like "premium" supermini's priced in 20k's.

Golf R Evo vs RS3 I'd expect the RS3 to use the 5-pot 2.5 lump tunned to 400hp(ish) and compare against a 1M and/or A45 black. I would imagine that these will basically be 50k cars once lightly optioned. The Golf high 30's or low 40's depending on how much VW loyalty tax is applied.

Understated, I can agree with but identical ? not so sure on that. If everyone wants a "factory sleeper" why don't Audi sell a fabia with a 300hp engine and an Audi badge in the grille ? surely that'd be the ultimate in understatement ? Because it wouldn't sell. People do like their cars to be different and use them as a status symbol to show wealth.

You could be correct with regards to having higher models, but I can't help but feel a 40k+ Golf will have residuals dragged down by Doris's 1.2 shopping cart.

In any case this, along with pretty much everything else out there doesn't take my interest at all. Given I've been driving quick versions of "normal" cars for 17 years+ I wonder what my next car will be.

[Vladimir]

Subtle cars that slip under the radar but go like stink? Perfect.

Winged up, spoilered cars with massive alloys and dark glass but usually a little engine? Rubbish.

I think some of you should just buy that Focus with RS bodykit and be done with it.

[Crafty_]

Vladimir said:

Subtle cars that slip under the radar but go like stink? Perfect.

Winged up, spoilered cars with massive alloys and dark glass but usually a little engine? Rubbish.

I think some of you should just buy that Focus with RS bodykit and be done with it.

But there is no middle ground at all ?

For example was an E46 M3 a "winged up, spoilered car with dark glass and a small engine" version of this ?


Of course not.

But when a uber hot hatch costs 3 times the cost of the base model and basically is the same imho its an issue.

[andrewparker]

You can understand why manufacturers do it though. Their interest is in the hundreds of thousands of entry level cars they'll sell, rather than a very limited number of high performance models. It makes more sense making the lower level cars look better because that's where they make their money, and it could be the difference between choosing one make over another. It's just got worse because people generally expect a £20k Golf SE to actually look ok and not have steel wheels and black plastic bumpers.