RE: Ford Focus RS: by the numbers
Discussion
Burwood said:
Ebola says it is not haldex. Topgear say Haldex like. It doesn't really matter. It's better than vags attempt no question. I don't like the interior but then it's a 30k giant slayer.
Its Made by GKN, not a haldex, its related to the terrain response system in the Land Rover Products but obviously used to achieve a different resultGroundEffect said:
The RS has a Haldex system...
I thought the Rs had an all new gkn developed system ?When I was looking for my Megane 5 years ago I test drove the competition
The vag stuff was typically boring to drive no thrills just nice interior but ultimately a dull experience
The mk2 focus Rs had a nice engine but the rest was a bit horrid
The Megane drove better than them all and was just like a finely honed instrument
Now I might want to replace it soon and this new frs is currently top of the pile,
No dsg you say ? I can't think of anything worse why would you want it it's the single most pointless option if you have bought a car to enjoy driving, there is no fun in that at all to me which is why I can't see the mk4 Megane getting a slot on my drive, the only worry currently is have they got that suspension balance right because I generally find nobody can set up standard hot hatch suspension like renaultsport they blow away the competition in this regard IMO,
As for evo's yeh great in there day but they are not cheap to run and ultimately they have never really looked particularly nice , there all going rusty and will all be ragged to s
t and on there 5th engine by now so not really ever going to be competition for a brand new car with a warranty, I think going back to slightly less garish looks is a positive for ford the mk2 just looked huge like a hatch that was left in the washing machine for to long and came out twice as big
And lime green seats I mean come on fair enough the paint but the seats
Definitely the most interesting Rs since the sapphire cossie for me,
Edited by loose cannon on Tuesday 19th January 10:13
tadaah said:
If a good chunk of Golf R owners swap to one of these I'd be very grateful. I can then pick up a Golf R for sensible money secondhand.
The Focus might be fantastic but I couldn't live with the looks or the Aldi interior
Ever shopped in Aldi? The fruit might not look as pretty as Tesco but it certainly tastes a lot better! Conveniently this analogy works for cars too, a car is to be driven so the one that is the best drive is therefore my preference. The Focus might be fantastic but I couldn't live with the looks or the Aldi interior
The Golf and indeed VW occupies a pointless position within VAG group, its purpose is to be the mediocre boring version of the cars above and below in the group.
The GKN system on the RS can put 70% of power to the back, Haldex can only manage 50%.
Also at the back the RS system can put up to 100% of the power it receives to just one wheel.
4WD systems in hatches until now were all about added traction.
The RS is a game changer because the 4WD system is used as a handling aid.
Which puts it in a different world to the competition.
For instance in drift mode it can put 100% of rear power (70% of the total) to the outside rear tyre. Unlike with a RWD car drift there is still 30% of power going to the front wheels, so the drift is very stable. Ford have cleverly programmed the electronics so that if the driver doesn't apply corrective lock in the drift then the car will take itself out of the drift, using the 4WD system.
Anyone with one of these on order is very lucky indeed.
And surely many keen Golf R owners will make the upgrade.
Also at the back the RS system can put up to 100% of the power it receives to just one wheel.
4WD systems in hatches until now were all about added traction.
The RS is a game changer because the 4WD system is used as a handling aid.
Which puts it in a different world to the competition.
For instance in drift mode it can put 100% of rear power (70% of the total) to the outside rear tyre. Unlike with a RWD car drift there is still 30% of power going to the front wheels, so the drift is very stable. Ford have cleverly programmed the electronics so that if the driver doesn't apply corrective lock in the drift then the car will take itself out of the drift, using the 4WD system.
Anyone with one of these on order is very lucky indeed.
And surely many keen Golf R owners will make the upgrade.
kambites said:
As I understand it, the Audi system is fundamentally different in that it actually contains a mechanical differential. The above system does not, for the wheels on that axle to travel at different speeds, one of those clutches must be open or slipping.
I'm sure it works, I just find it intriguing that clutch technology has come on far enough to allow a clutch to be constantly slipping under normal operation without adverse effects. That's why I wondered whether the rear wheels are constantly driven, or only "on demand" which would make it much easier to manage clutch temperature and wear.
Saabs Haldex XWD constantly slipped the clutch on the propshaft and L to R in the rear eLSD unit. The GKN system is very similar to Saab's XWD Haldex with eLSD. So why should it be any less reliable?I'm sure it works, I just find it intriguing that clutch technology has come on far enough to allow a clutch to be constantly slipping under normal operation without adverse effects. That's why I wondered whether the rear wheels are constantly driven, or only "on demand" which would make it much easier to manage clutch temperature and wear.
Edited by kambites on Tuesday 19th January 09:27
Adam Ansel said:
The GKN system on the RS can put 70% of power to the back, Haldex can only manage 50%.
Also at the back the RS system can put up to 100% of the power it receives to just one wheel.
4WD systems in hatches until now were all about added traction.
The RS is a game changer because the 4WD system is used as a handling aid.
Which puts it in a different world to the competition.
For instance in drift mode it can put 100% of rear power (70% of the total) to the outside rear tyre. Unlike with a RWD car drift there is still 30% of power going to the front wheels, so the drift is very stable. Ford have cleverly programmed the electronics so that if the driver doesn't apply corrective lock in the drift then the car will take itself out of the drift, using the 4WD system.
Anyone with one of these on order is very lucky indeed.
And surely many keen Golf R owners will make the upgrade.
The evo and GTR active yaw systems were handling aids some time ago, but probably not as effective as this latest setup.Also at the back the RS system can put up to 100% of the power it receives to just one wheel.
4WD systems in hatches until now were all about added traction.
The RS is a game changer because the 4WD system is used as a handling aid.
Which puts it in a different world to the competition.
For instance in drift mode it can put 100% of rear power (70% of the total) to the outside rear tyre. Unlike with a RWD car drift there is still 30% of power going to the front wheels, so the drift is very stable. Ford have cleverly programmed the electronics so that if the driver doesn't apply corrective lock in the drift then the car will take itself out of the drift, using the 4WD system.
Anyone with one of these on order is very lucky indeed.
And surely many keen Golf R owners will make the upgrade.
The GKN system on the RS technical description: http://www.gkn.com/frankfurt/news-and-Media/Pages/...
Top Gear website goes into the technical details of the 4WD system: http://www.topgear.com/car-news/frankfurt-motor-sh...
Evo magazine test several different cars fitted with GKN systems: http://www.evo.co.uk/features/15377/evo-car-techno...
Top Gear website goes into the technical details of the 4WD system: http://www.topgear.com/car-news/frankfurt-motor-sh...
Evo magazine test several different cars fitted with GKN systems: http://www.evo.co.uk/features/15377/evo-car-techno...
Edited by Adam Ansel on Tuesday 19th January 10:16
Splats said:
I'm sorry but the "my EVO did this stuff 10 years ago" is a tired argument. Here are the differences I can think of (there will be more):
- 20mpg
- 170-200 mile range
- Needs serviced every 5 minutes
- Far higher overall running costs (parts, consumable, etc)
- Questionable image (I accept this is subjective)
- Every day comforts (cruise, decent stereo, nav, etc)(this matters to a lot of people)
- £36,000 in 2008 is the same as £42,902 in 2014 (source: bank of England inflation calculator)
That last one is crucial here. We are talking about a completely different animal aimed at a completely different market in a different time. I've toyed with an FQ360 at various points throughout the years - it's a car I respect enormously. However, combinations of the above factors have always put me off. The RS (and many of the other hot-hatches) of today are serving up similar performance without the drawbacks. That is why they are receiving the attention they are.
If you have the money to buy a new Focus RS. The cost of petrol is irrelevant as is the cost of servicing which will be no different to the Evo. People automatically think because the AYC needs an extra service that it is expensive! You would be lucky to get >30MPG in this car anyway. Most AMG A45's get mid to high 20's as an example so not really in a different world to an Evo which gets mid 20's. A Focus RS is just as much a questionable image as is an EVO so that point seems a little invalid.- 20mpg
- 170-200 mile range
- Needs serviced every 5 minutes
- Far higher overall running costs (parts, consumable, etc)
- Questionable image (I accept this is subjective)
- Every day comforts (cruise, decent stereo, nav, etc)(this matters to a lot of people)
- £36,000 in 2008 is the same as £42,902 in 2014 (source: bank of England inflation calculator)
That last one is crucial here. We are talking about a completely different animal aimed at a completely different market in a different time. I've toyed with an FQ360 at various points throughout the years - it's a car I respect enormously. However, combinations of the above factors have always put me off. The RS (and many of the other hot-hatches) of today are serving up similar performance without the drawbacks. That is why they are receiving the attention they are.
Edited by Splats on Monday 18th January 23:44
Yes it maybe a tired argument but it is true that from a pure driving stand point before the ford is even released the Evo has it beat ten years ago yet people seem to get wet at the mouth for this car.
Does the new focus Rs need an engine oil change every 3000 miles ?
Does the new focus Rs have a manufacturers warranty
Does it have a reasonable fuel consumption when not 10 tenths
Does it look like a ten year old Japanese sallon car
does it have the insurance cost of an evo 8/9
What if you have already owned an evo in the past or several
Does the new focus Rs have a manufacturers warranty
Does it have a reasonable fuel consumption when not 10 tenths
Does it look like a ten year old Japanese sallon car
does it have the insurance cost of an evo 8/9
What if you have already owned an evo in the past or several
Varn said:
Why any driving enthusiast would part with £30k for a car sporting AWD and forced induction is beyond me.
1. Not many part with £30k. PCP finance is 5.8% from Ford just now and most people that have actually got £30,000 can think of many better ways to utlise that capital for a greater return.2. Residual value. Now there are no guarantees here and the GMFV is around £15,800. However, I'm hedging my bets that the RS will be worth a minimum of £20,000 3 years from now and quite possibly as much as £25,000. I'll be using a spreadsheet to track all payments, interest, servicing and consumables from purchase to disposal and I'm hopeful the total cost of ownership per month at the point of disposal will be around £300. So that's about £10k spent to run around in a sporting AWD forced induction car for 3-years. I'm happy with that
BricktopST205 said:
If you have the money to buy a new Focus RS. The cost of petrol is irrelevant as is the cost of servicing which will be no different to the Evo. People automatically think because the AYC needs an extra service that it is expensive! You would be lucky to get >30MPG in this car anyway. Most AMG A45's get mid to high 20's as an example so not really in a different world to an Evo which gets mid 20's. A Focus RS is just as much a questionable image as is an EVO so that point seems a little invalid.
Yes it maybe a tired argument but it is true that from a pure driving stand point before the ford is even released the Evo has it beat ten years ago yet people seem to get wet at the mouth for this car.
Well, since we're on the topic of it...that's another thing that's changed. I never had the money to buy a new EVO and nor do I have £30,000 spare to buy a Focus RS. However, the rise in PCP finance makes the RS more affordable and accessible to a greater range of people - myself included. I talk in greater length about this in the post above.Yes it maybe a tired argument but it is true that from a pure driving stand point before the ford is even released the Evo has it beat ten years ago yet people seem to get wet at the mouth for this car.
Don't you see, its the coming together of a number of factors that makes these new breed of cars so appealing. Yes, Subaru's and Evo's were going just as fast 10 years ago, but that's only part of the equation. These days, anyone with a vague interest in cars can wander into a VW dealership and walk out with a well built, comfortable, 4WD, 300bhp performance car that isn't taxing to look after, can go from refined to fun at the touch of a button, doesn't have a bad image and can be paid for easily with some monthly budgeting. The RS interior is a little low-rent, but if you compare a Golf R and an EVO as an every day prospect and there is simply no comparison. I think its awesome where we are just now with such performance available in every day cars (with choices from most manufacturers now as well).
What?Varn said:
Why any driving enthusiast would part with £30k for a car sporting AWD and forced induction is beyond me.
Beyond your obviously quite limited thinking capacity? Unfortunate.Personally I love awd, it does things other layouts cannot.
I also love forced induction, I love the shove and torque it gives.
It's not "beyond me" to imagine other people would prefer other layouts and engines for other reasons.
BricktopST205 said:
If you have the money to buy a new Focus RS. The cost of petrol is irrelevant as is the cost of servicing which will be no different to the Evo. People automatically think because the AYC needs an extra service that it is expensive! You would be lucky to get >30MPG in this car anyway. Most AMG A45's get mid to high 20's as an example so not really in a different world to an Evo which gets mid 20's. A Focus RS is just as much a questionable image as is an EVO so that point seems a little invalid.
Yes it maybe a tired argument but it is true that from a pure driving stand point before the ford is even released the Evo has it beat ten years ago yet people seem to get wet at the mouth for this car.
Sorry but which evo did you have that did mid 20s MPG?? was that when it was parked in the garage?Yes it maybe a tired argument but it is true that from a pure driving stand point before the ford is even released the Evo has it beat ten years ago yet people seem to get wet at the mouth for this car.
My Mk1 RS struggles to get into the 20s and my grass-tracker is in teens to single figures, both 2 litre turbos in the 200-400BHP area.
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